Well... when it comes to the one subject which is the source of irritation for both of us, he will not discuss it. The subject? What he pays his ex wife in support. It's a fortune. <P>When they split, she was making very little. He gave her the house, took all the debt and agreed to give her 3k a month in support for her and the two kids (now 19 and 15). Well, now that he's married again, our new mortgage is over 2x that of his ex. We have a new son, and he has to commute 70 miles each way to his job. His ex has a new job. She's making about $50k a month, and with what he's paying her, she's actually bringing home considerably more than he is. I tried to point out to him now that the situation is inequitable. But he gives me this "he made an agreement" crap. Yeah, I respect that he keeps his word. But - her ability to provide more towards the support of herself and her kids has substantially increased.<P>The 19 year old daughter works a great deal and makes a good amount of money. The order states that support ends at 19, but because "he agreed" to pay until she was 21, that is what he intends to do.<P>I'm worried now how to make next months bills while his ex *generously* offers to pay for a ticket for my husband and their son to go to a hockey game. Why not? She can afford it.<P>I don't sleep. Can't sleep for the worry. But he asks me constantly what is wrong. So I make up things to tell him because any discussion of his "agreement" is taboo. Well, today I told him that any money he gave his ex after the eldest child's 19 birthday was going to be characterized as spousal support for tax purposes. He immediately sent her a letter asking her to check it out. Why he has to kiss up to her and insist she check it out is beyond me. <P>I tell him that the money we give his ex comes from me as well. He has told me to let it go that it is not productive and will damage our relationship. He has no idea how upset I am by all of this. Damage our relationship? How much more damage could there be? I've just been told not to discuss it with him, so I turn to strangers to pour our my distress. That's what he has reduced me to. It's not that I don't respect the opinions here, I just resent very deeply that while he asks me in all sincerity what is bothering me, he refuses to discuss it once he knows.<P>I told him that wasn't fair. Now he's angry at me for bringing it up again.<P>So I guess I just do nothing. Stress over paying the bills and sit here with a gag order on discussion about what's really bothering me. Oh well, I've never had an ulcer before, I guess that will be a new experience. Wonder what other kinds of neat stuff I can expect from the stress and anxiety and now inability to discuss.<P>We promised each other we would always have open communication. He just broke that promise to me.<P>I am just very angry. Sorry this is so long.

This is a toughie for me, too; I also have "restraining orders" on my conversation. <P>For some people, venting and getting it off their chests works magic; only after they've verbalized it can they let it go. I carry it too far (nag), but for some of us, if we have to "stuff it," it just builds and festers. For others, "out of sight (or earshot), out of mind." In my man's case, he just can't stand conflict, whereas I'd rather have a good argument, get it out, and get over it. Probably just a personality (or gender??) difference.<P>I'd say if you aren't talking "constructively"; if it gets hurtful or you just go around in circles, then he may be right about it being destructive and it's probably better not to discuss it; you will both lovebust. <P>On the other hand, if you could talk through it to a solution (maybe with a counselor/mediator), could it be resolved and put to rest? <P>At any rate, I do understand your frustration and resentment at being stripped of your constitutional right to free speech by the one person to whom you feel you should be able to fully express yourself.<P>PS: don't worry about venting to strangers; it beats driving your friends crazy.<p>[This message has been edited by quandry (edited March 27, 2000).]

Thanks for that. I re-read my post and realized my faux pas. She makes about $5k a month not $50k. <P>I dunno... I do know that at some point it will stop, but it's this *honor* stuff he has issues with. Like his word is paramount and holy. But there's the double standard and his word doesn't always count for much. I know this is all about appearances - his ex is close to his parents. But I don't know why it's a big deal to him what others think.

Boy, I see both sides here...<P>I certainly respect him for keeping his word.<P>I also sympathasize with your side...it does seem like it should be renogotiated. It also does not seem right to have the topic off-limits...I'd be angry too. <P>But, it boils down to this. You HAVE discussed it with him and he is not going back on his word (commendable) and is not willing to renegotiate (questionable judgement). Other than driving him nuts, what purpose do you see in continuing to press the issue? I think the more you pressure him, the more likely it will harden his resolve to keep the agreement as is...I doubt you will gain anything. <P>Maybe you can brainstorm with him on other ways to reduce your bills and/or increase income. He may eventually come to the realization on his own that renegotiating might make sense...<P>

Please don't misunderstand. I admire him as well for honoring his agreement. The issue is that his ex now makes about $3,500 a month more than she did at the time they signed the agreement. She has no additional expenses and, in fact, their daughter, now 19, works and supports herself for the most part. <P>On the other hand, he has a new family, a mortgage more than 2x what hers is, and more expenses.<P>Child Support should be based on each party's ability to provide it. My point was that now that she has a substantially greater ability to contribute towards the support of their son (and daughter), and his own expenses have increased due to new mortgage, baby, etc., they should be able to renegotiate the agreement. I don't see how a woman earning $5,000 a month (NOT including the additional $3k per month she gets in support) needs that much money. I don't understand why she can't "get by" on less than $8,000 a month with only a $800 mortgage and limited child rearing expenses.<P>That was my point, that is my issue.<p>[This message has been edited by SpandauBallet (edited March 30, 2000).]

I understand your point, and sympathize with it. As I say, it would aggravate me also. But, I don't think you have anything to gain by bringing it up, when its already been discussed and he is not willing to renegotiate it with his ex. "Nagging" him to do something he sees as "dishonorable" will likely prove counterproductive. <P>Maybe after brainstorming and working at other ways to make ends meet for a while, he may start to come around...or, he may figure other ways to deal with the financial crunch. <BR>What if you tell him you won't bring it up again for 6 months, if he'll try and address the financial issues...let him worry about how the bills get paid.<P>

Legally, your expenses have very little to do with it...support is based upon the earnings of each party. Her income has gone up and his daughter is over 19, so therefore, if your H so chose, he could petition the court to lower his obligation. <P>However, your H is unwilling to change the present circumstances. It's only a lovebuster to demand he take steps to pay less support. The honor of his word is obviously quite important to him. So...you're going to HAVE to let that be unless he brings it up himself.<P>Instead, try to brainstorm ways to improve your budget. Deal with the support as a necessary expense for now. (Your H may rethink things now that the support is deemed spousal support and affects taxes.)<P>Stop working yourself into an ulcer. Let the anger go in whatever ways you can! It's not worth it to affect your health. Tell your H that's what your plan is--to simply stop worrying about it...because you trust him to make the right decisions and take care of his present family too. (He will appreciate your confidence in him.)<P>The best advice I ever received, relationship-wise, is "choose your battles carefully." I believe we can say basically anything to our partners, but it's the tone in which it's said that sets the stage for the conversation. <P>Sometimes people just don't understand; until the second W (or H) feels like they're the most important, life is a roller coaster of stress. <P>I wonder if an offhanded statement, in reference to his Ex's fortunate circumstances, like "well, at least I know if anything happened to US, you'd take care of me WELL," would be a huge lovebuster.

Dear SandauBallet,<P>I do simpathasize w/you,it must be pretty hard to know that you have to worry about all the "bills."<P>Even though I can try to understand the strain it puts on you when your H won't talk,I keep coming back w/(please don't take this wrong,it is only a Q)<P>Did you know the agreement of his support when you married him? Did you know that some day you too would have a house,kids and so on? If the answer is yes.......than you knew this when you married him and you made this commitment.I think that he should be comened(sp?)for his loyalty to his children.<BR>I know that there are a lot of "dead-beat" dads out there and the children are the ones that suffer. <P>I do agree w/ every one else here also.I would try in such a way that you can negotiate for a "win-win" answer.Does he see the strain that it puts on you and your family to try to maintain the bills,I think it would be a great idea for him to take care of paying the bills for awhile. <P>Take care and you can come here to vent.<P><BR>

Everyone else had great ideas, but here is one more to mull over.<P>As you said that you worry and are concerned about paying bills each month, write out a list of all bills to be paid for the month. Write on there the amount of his paycheck that he brings home. Calmly take this paper to your husband and say, "Honey, I really hate to bother you with this but I am kind of stumped and really need your input here."<P>Hand him the paper and ask him which bills should you pay and which ones should you not pay. As he is an honorable man, this reality should smack him in the face. <P>Let the burden be on his shoulders and not on yours. If he tells you which to pay and not pay, thank him, go pay those and then next month do the same thing showing those non-paid bills as now being owed double and ask him again which bills to pay....if the kids needs something, bring the issue to him and ask him how he would like for you to handle this.<P>Never mention the spousal support! My husband would rather pay it rather than deal with the ex. That is his choice, however, since he now has this family to take care of, I want the same "honorable" intensity placed in this house as well. (Just for your info, my honorable hubby is looking for a new job that pays more money rather than going back to court)<P>This is taking the pressure off of me. Hope it helps you.

It seems like the basics of the MB program can be applied here...everyone's suggestions are great. I think you need to step back and asess whether you are angry about the bills not getting paid (an area that needs to be negotiated in a formal manner together in a non-hostile way/ SueB's remarks are excellent i feel), or angry at his values and decisions (which would be a disrespectiful judgemnet). <P>Ever since i discovered this site for myself, i have tried to, whenver i have a problem in my marriage, run it through the program's principles to see hwere it matches up and then do the appropriate thing. <P><BR>i know how hard it is to deal with a man who is caught up in appearances, etc, I have had similar problems myself with my H in relation to him and his parents. But the bottom line is that, unless you are ready to walk out that door tomorrow and accept the consequences of that action, you should take a hard look at the choices you have made (marrying somoene who thinks that he aught to support his ex family the way he does), and figure out a way to accept his "character flaws" (and you probably have them too), concentrating on changing *behaviors* that bother you (love busters) and things he is not providing (most important emotional needs).<P>You may never understand why he feels compelled to support his ex this way, and may think he is a weak or stupid person because of it. But are you ready to leave? That is your only option outside of negotiating farily within the confines of the MB program, i feel, becaseu you can't change who a person is, only ask that they change behaviors to stop hurting you and provide you what you need.<P>And like many people have said, maybe if you jsut proveded him with a non-judgemental understanding of what bills need to be paid etc, he will come around on his own. My H has done things like that before, it's just that you have to wait (frustrating), but he won't change the other way and may come to resent you besides.<P>sorry if any of this sounded harsh :{ i really do feel sympathy for you.<P>leeza