First let me quote from an earlier posting that I did: " I thought if I bettered myself then my life would improve. I decided that I wanted to go back to school and I thought that he supported that. He supports me going back to school, but he doesn't like my choice of school, or major. I wanted to become an architect, but he doesn't feel there's any use in it. I began school not knowing his true feelings. I was very pleased after the first semester that I picked a major I fell in love with. I made the Dean's list every semester, and recieved an award for excellence for some of my work. I was very hurt and confused when my husband didn't even acknowledge my successes with a congratulatory word. Later he admitted that he didn't like artwork and thought I was wasting my time. He couldn't even say "Good job!" when I got an A in math or physics. So I am halfway through school and it's killing me that my husband is like that. I think he feels I am wasting HIS money on my schooling and it's not cheap."<P>Here's my question: We weren't doing MB when I began school. I now know that he doesn't completely agree with my choice. How do we POJA this problem? I don't want to quit school - I love it. And I want to have a better marriage but my husband doesn't want me to be at this particular school studying this particular thing. Do I have to give up a career that has taken me years to find?

I have read some of your other posts and responded to them also. IMHO I think that the answer to your question regarding the use of the POJA as to your continuing your course of study is that if a violation has been committed against the POJA then a return must be made to a time when the POJA was not in conflict. In other words, if you didn't have the full and enthusiastic agreement from H before you started your formal schooling then it would be incumbent upon you to stop, unless you obtain H's full and enthusiastic support. The fact that you were not doing MB at the time you made the decision to start school doesn't diminish the fact that the error was made. The POJA just lends a name to the act and gives one needed direction for future decisions. For your marriage to reap the benefits of the POJA both of you must play a role in all decisions that will affect you. There is no room for anything less than an enthusiastic agreement by both partners in any decision. You must learn to resolve your conflicts so that neither of you gain at the other's expense. It takes caring from both and cooperation at its best to live under the POJA. One could probably unilaterally make things better for a while but eventually the Taker would awaken and things would be back to the way they were. Your husband must be involved in every decision you make and you must be involved in every decision he makes. Nothing else will work, at least, not for very long.

I don't know why I feel so compelled to answer this post. I'm a long way from achieving a POJA with my H. But.... your H's responses (or lack thereof) must hit some kind of raw nerve of mine. You have something to be proud of. A's in math and physics?!?!?!! You're achieving success. You go girl! Don't let go of that! <P>A career in architecture will provide you with a decent living -- with or without him. I wish you luck with your POJA. If you let go of something that's important to you just to please him, well, that just doesn't seem right. Your post was fairly short. A lot of things went unsaid. For instance, what choice of your schooling would be acceptable to your H? *Is* there a choice that you can make that is capable of pleasing him? <P>In order to solve a problem, the problem must be correctly identified. I just can't help but wonder if your choice of architecture is really the problem. You suppose there's something else that he objects to that he hasn't articulated yet?<BR>

Thanks for your replies!<P>Noggin - I think my instincts are telling me that you are correct in your interpretation.<P><BR> In recent conversations with my husband I have learned that he objects to the money I am spending on school in addition to not liking my major. (Probably more the money than the major.) Perhaps he feels so strongly about the money part that he cannot give me encouragement in any aspect of my schooling especially since he doesn't think architecture is worthwhile. (An attitude I believe to be somewhat of a Disrespectful Judgment.)<P>While I don't want to quit school, I think I perhaps could find some other major that I enjoy at a cheaper school. I'm not sure that we can come to enthusiastic agreement about the major though. I definitely want to do something in a design type field, (artsy stuff, in his opinion), and I don't know that he will ever like that.

Lonely and Frustrated,<P>While it's admirable that you are willing to reconsider your education choices in order to have a POJA with your H, you might talk with your H to find out exactly what it is he doesn't like about your education choice.<P>Architecture is a great career which has a good potential to recoup the investment in tuition in just a few years. As a career, it is also personaly rewarding, financialy rewarding and portable. Your H's characterisation of architecture as "too artsy" is nothing less than an insulting put down and should be noted as such. It may not be something he would like to do (or be good at) but so what? You're not picking his job, you are choosing your career. What does he do for work anyway? What does he have against architecture? Doesn't he use buildings? What do you live in anyway, a tent?<P>My opinion, for what it's worth: educate your H as to why architecture is a good career choice, tell him how well you are doing. If you give it up you may regret it for the rest of your life and resent your H for it. Is that what he wants?<P>I get a sense, at the bottom of all this, that your H feels threatened by your success. His focus on money and the insulting comments show an attempt to control you in reponse to his fear.<P>Talk with your H to find out what he feels threatened by, and assure him there is no need to feel threatened.<P>good luck,<BR>Kenneth<p>[This message has been edited by Kenneth (edited May 15, 2000).]

Noggin,<P>Wait a minute! Are you trying to tell me that all past decisions have to be renogitaed under POJA? I don't think that is practical. It should be applied toward present and future decisions. A decision to QUIT school or to change majors should follow POJA. If L&F is not enthusiuastic about quitting school SHE SHOULD NOT DO IT! She WILL regret it later! <P><BR>L&F,<P>Perhaps a reasonable compromise can be reached. Why should he decide what your major is? It's YOUR career. It's what YOU will be doing for work. If it's the money, then perhaps a school that offers the major you LOVE to do that is cheaper. Perhaps there is some kind of scholarshp available. With your grades, you might be able to qualify. I would look into what the real issue is. Don't negate your own dreams. <P>Kenneth,<P>I TOTALLY agree with you!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by TruthSeeker (edited May 15, 2000).]

First, please let me say that I am a total neophyte in the field of maintaining marital harmony and bliss. I, too, seek knowledge to better my relationship with my wife and post only to try and offer my most humble opinion(s). For clarification let me attempt this. Lonely and Frustrated's question, as I read it, was how did the POJA fit in with a particular set of circumstances. Those circumstances involved the violation of the POJA (again, as I interpret the POJA). The fact that the violation occurred prior to L&F labeling the action one way or the other is not significant to the final outcome. In the end the results were the same as if the POJA had been attempted but failed. Asking if all past actions must be renegotiated under the rules of POJA is like saying, "OK, all is forgiven and forgotten. We start from this moment on under the rules of the POJA". That to me would seem impractical. Perhaps past violations should not be renegotiated unless the violation proves to be onerous to present and future activities. Say H had no bad feelings about W's schooling. Certainly there would then be no need for talks with this as the topic. However, in this case, H, for whatever reason, is not enthusiastic about W's schooling. If you employ the POJA as I see it, then an attempt must be made to restore the situation that existed before the violation. At this time the decision for W to attend school or not can be negotiated using the POJA. The POJA works only because those involved work to make it work. If one partner violates the POJA, the other may feel it is OK for them to then violate the policy. That, of course leads to failure. Only when both partners reach the stage where they automatically and effortlessly want to please the other will the POJA reach its full potential. That is all I wanted to try and get across.

I just got in from walking my dog and thinking about the foregoing posts. I reread them and see that in reality we may be all coming very close to the same end. Of course we can all agree that architecture is a truly admirable occupation. I further contend that there really is no occupation to which one devotes honest time that can be considered other than admirable - the eye of the beholder so to speak. So rather than attack H for not seeing that, I agree with Kenneth in the latter part of his post when he says that there certainly must be some underlying cause for H's not supporting W's schooling especially in light of the fact that W is not only excelling in her chosen field but loving it also. This should make any H glow warmly inside for his loved one. Both TruthSeeker and I seem to agree that the POJA, if accepted as a cornerstone for the marriage, should be applied to all present and future decisions. It appears to be only the starting point that is in some contention. I don't see that as a major problem in that if H is convinced that the POJA is a proper way of living happily and enjoining his other in negotiations, then the same ends will be met. The important thing is that the two start working together to reach an agreement that is pleasing and acceptable to both. H must acknowledge that he cares for W's happiness and well-being and regardless of her chosen field of study lend full support not only to helping her attain that goal but offer encouragement and praises when W succeeds. It is not the field of study that is important but the support, success and acceptance.<P>Lonely and Frustrated, do not be misled by my posts. I truly admire what you have accomplished. I agree with TruthSeeker and Kenneth that you should continue to follow your dreams. At the same time you should be encouraging you H to talk openly and honestly with you. Hopefully he will soon realise that you want and need his support and caring and then open and honest negotiations can follow.

Noggin, I'm sorry you're getting beat up for offering your opinion here! <P>Everyone, thanks for your answers! I have been thinking an awful lot these past few days about all of your answers. This obviously is not an easy question. <P>I don't think that my H has the right to choose my career, and I am perturbed that he hasn't supported my choice, but I don't know if this issue should break our marriage.<P>Is this such a huge thing that I should leave him because he doesn't like architects? And if I want to stay in this marriage, wouldn't it be a lot healthier marriage for me if I feel supported in my career choice? So if I can find something else that I like almost as much, that he will support me in, wouldn't that be good and valid way to go?<P>My H hasn't been insulting and argumentative about this issue, and he doesn't act like he wants me to quit. He simply ignores anything I do. I guess I expect him to encourage me simply because I'm his wife and I'm doing well. When I have forced the issue and asked about it is when he has given his opinion. <P>Does that sound like he is threatened by my success? I honestly don't know, maybe you men can tell?<P>I get the impression that he has no interest in architecture, therefore he cannot be enthusiastic about it. <P>I kind of feel that if I have to negotiate for his support, then it's not really support. He will just be paying lip service to whatever I do. I don't think I want that kind of marriage either. I just want him to be proud that I am doing well.<P>Aaaaagh! Why can't this be easy?

Is your H a generally controlling person?<P>You've responded and encouraged my posts, let me maybe give a new point of view:<P>Part of my H's withdrawal (or all of it) is due to my very strong and controlling nature. When he decided to go back to college I influenced his major (programming). I regret that now because I can look back after he dropped the bomb that he wanted to leave and realize that it was things just like that that drove him away from me.<P>BUT - I never realized it. Lonely, I HONESTLY thought I was right and was doing the best thing for him. I never saw myself as I really was.<P>Could it be the same with him?<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I get the impression that he has no interest in architecture, therefore he cannot be enthusiastic about it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There *must* be more to it than that! When I first read your post, I wondered if your H is feeling threatened by your success. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. If he is, he may have difficulty admitting it. After all, it would certainly be an unattractive quality in him. <P>Perhaps you can confirm or eliminate the lack of interest in your field as the true reason. Since you're enthusiastic and successful in your studies, perhaps you can spark some interest for him. Everything is connected in this world. Let's say, for example, your H just LOVES railroads. Share a story with him about the Texas state capital that tells how the state got their pink granite from two brothers who had a mountain of it. The brothers gave the granite to the state in exchange for the state building a railroad to their property. They also pulled a major union busting stunt during construction of the capital... <P>My point is this: if he finds architecture *that* boring, you can probably convince him that it's not. I'd wager a guess that something else is bothering him. If you take one topic at a time and peel away all the objections that "aren't", what remains will be the reason that "is".

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TruthSeeker:<BR><B>Noggin,<P>Wait a minute! Are you trying to tell me that all past decisions have to be renogitaed under POJA? I don't think that is practical. It should be applied toward present and future decisions. A decision to QUIT school or to change majors should follow POJA. If L&F is not enthusiuastic about quitting school SHE SHOULD NOT DO IT! She WILL regret it later! <P><BR>L&F,<P>Perhaps a reasonable compromise can be reached. Why should he decide what your major is? It's YOUR career. It's what YOU will be doing for work. If it's the money, then perhaps a school that offers the major you LOVE to do that is cheaper. Perhaps there is some kind of scholarshp available. With your grades, you might be able to qualify. I would look into what the real issue is. Don't negate your own dreams. <P>Kenneth,<P>I TOTALLY agree with you!<P><BR>[This message has been edited by TruthSeeker (edited May 15, 2000).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I understand the POJA and its intent...therein lies the validity of any "agreement"....the INTENT. What I am hearing in the letters so far is that your husband was the one in the spotlight all this time and now he's having to share it with you. You are reaching success and establishing an avenue of independence. Could his negative reactions simply be a bruised ego? Jealousy? "She might not need me anymore if she goes into the work place and finds out she can take care of herself." Maybe he's worried that your opinions will have some credibility now, when before his were taken as "law."<P>I ask myself this question: If he was the one going back to school to better himself, would he be so "uncomplaining" about these types of reactions to his "success?"<P>I think if anyone is going against the POJA, it would be the husband in this instance. I don't see much compromise here. <P>NOW, if you decide to be a stay-at-home mom and not be productive in your chosen field after you graduate, then I would see your education as a complete waste, and your husband would definitely have reason to gripe. But as it stands now, it sounds like he's just worried that you're not going to need him anymore.