There comes a point when try and have given 150% of yourself to do the "right" things to save a marriage, that you stop and ask yourself, How Long? How long is too long? When do you stop trying if you aren't seeing any positive move back toward Conflict? Maybe because I've been low-key, non-threatening, just plain nice and friendly, H thinks I don't care. When do I push the issue and discuss what his decision is going to be? It's only been a week and a day since he told me he wanted out. It seems like an eternity for me. When do I tell him how I feel? When (if ever) will he tell me he's leaving so me and my son can fall apart and put it back together?<P>I've seen so many similarities in these forums to my own situation. I've read all I can find on what to do and how ONE spouse can bring the Withdrawn spouse back to Conflict and eventually Intimacy. But what if the whole problem is that H wants out because of Conflict. If he doesn't understand these principles, he won't see conflict as a positive step - only a reaffirmation of why he wants to leave. When is the right time? How can I get him to read some of these concepts? Print them out and leave them on the table? I don't want to push because I'm afraid I'll push him out the door. He's very touchy when he's in this decision making time. But, I'm afraid if he doesn't have some other influence, he'll make the wrong decision and leave. He's become VERY close with his best friend (of 10 years) wife - who is also leaving him. I've talked with best friend and we honestly don't beleive there is anything going on between them, but agree that she is influencing him negatively.<P>I'm new at this, and don't want to stop trying. The only way I can function every day is to believe we will work it out. I love him and our son more than anything. He is a PERFECT father and has been since day one. Every time in the past (before marriage) we split up, we would eventually end up back together. It crushed us no matter how bad things got. Then, months later, the issues seemed unimportant compared to being together. I just want him to feel that way again so we can try together.<P>I'm rambling. Someone please help.<P>

Cali, <P>I doubt I'll be much help as I am also new here and floundering in my marriage, but I thought I would at least encourage you not to give up. I think reading through the MB site is a great help to getting yourself on the right track. It's hard to stop blaming the other one or yourself for everything, but I think it's probably an important step to getting over this stuff.<P>I feel that being aware of your own emotional needs, his needs, and at this point, perhaps very importantly, being aware of the lovebusting that's gone on between you is an important first step to recovery. I haven't been able to apologise and converse yet with my H about these things, but I am aware now of the things I have been doing that are lovebusters (disrespectful judgments and angry outbursts mostly).<P>I feel more hopeful this week that things might get better, and I am trying to get up the words and the courage to ask my husband to do the MB thing with me.<P>I hope you are able to do the same. Good Luck!

Lonely,<P>Thanks for the encouragement. I really needed some. Last night I called my mother in law to check on my son(I'm out of town on business right now) and she said H dropped him off and didn't say much. She poked and prodded and asked if there was someone else. He still tells her know (I beleive that foolishly or not) and she asked him what he was going to do about the car (in my name he drives) He told her he was going to give me $$ each month and she told him that it wasn't enough, that he couldn't expect me to continue payment for the car he drives. I think she has pushed the negative issue on him out of frustration. He has not told anyone, including me when or definitely that he's going. She told me I should change the locks and go on with my life. I know she's just angry (great mom in law who loves me). But I'm afraid she's pushing to hard. I was so discouraged to hear "give up" from his own mother. <P>I'm figuring on this: if he really wanted out his stuff will be gone when I get back (Sunday). He is non-confrontational and this would be the easiest time for him to go. If his stuff is still there, I'm going to take a deep breath and tell him how I feel. I've written it all down to help me, and maybe if he doesn't want to talk he can just read it. I've also written down a list of all we have in common and checked off all the things I've neglected (mutual interest in art, music, nature that I've not made time for). I've also listed all the GOOD things that have come from our marriage. I hope these positive things will give him enough hope to want to try again. But on the other hand, I'm afraid I'm being too pushy by coming up with all these reasons to stay. It has to be his decision and he is rebellious, if he feels pressured I'm afraid he'll bolt.<P>Thanks for the kind words. I'm not sure I can approach the MB issue with him yet, but Sunday is my target to approach my feelings on the matter at least. Wish me luck!<P>------------------<BR>

Cali,<P>I"m sorry to hear that your mom in law was discouraging. Have you read the Q&A columns on "Can one spouse save A Marriage?" ? I think they reinforce what you are saying about giving him positive reasons to stay.<P>Has he given you any clues about what is missing in your marriage? Perhaps trying to meet those needs as best you can without being confrontational will bring him around enough to be able to listen to what you have to say.<P>Hopefully he will still be there when you get home. Maybe you could talk to him on the phone beforehand? Just a thought. <P>Keep your chin up!

Lonely,<P>It's worse than you think. If I called him on the phone he wouldn't talk to me. I called on my way to the airport to make sure he was up to take our son to school, when I told him I loved him he hung up.<P>Talked with his sister today, she asked him point blank what was going on and he said he was leaving. She asked why and he said he can't take the arguing and screaming and yelling anymore. That it wasn't good for our son to see and his grades were slipping (he went back to college a year ago). She told him that I realized that and was sincerely making an effort. He said "Yeah, she's been kissing my a** all week and I've treated her like a di**." She told him I was trying to stop the arguing and complaining and he said it would just be back to the same old thing. He asked her when I was coming back (although I told him twice when he asked me before leaving and I left him my itinerary) and she told him Sunday. He said "Well I guess I'll stay at the house till Sunday." I don't know if he meant he'd leave Sunday for good or not. The not knowing is killing me and it is so hard to stay positive when it looks like he just doesn't love me anymore.<P>Maybe he will leave but then come back when he realizes we should try again. On the other hand I don't want to push even though I feel he should know how deeply sorry I am and how much I love him and want to try again.<P>I'm having so many ups and downs I just can't take it. I'm begining to lose hope but can't bear to think of the alternative to saving us. The only thing keeping me going is that I refuse to believe we must end in divorce. Our 5th anniversary is in 3 weeks. I've been looking forward to it for so long. I'm devastated that it won't be the happy occasion it should be. I have even thought maybe I should suprise him (supposed to be out of town but cancelled part of trip to be home that day) and tell him how much I love him that day. But I just keep talking myself in circles. I only know one thing, through the ups and downs I STILL want to make it work. Through all the hurt and doubt, it still feels like the only right thing to do. But am I deluding myself? Am I in denial? Is this detrimental to refuse to give up? How do I approach him? I'm sick of walking on egg shells but don't want to give him the reason he's looking for to walk out.<P>Help help!!<P>It's so hard to <P>------------------<BR>

Cali:<P>You want to know "how long"?? Plan on a year or two. Your efforts now should be learning to eliminate lovebusters---and you MUST establish a CONSISTANT TRACK RECORD of eliminating these (angry outbursts, selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, dishonesty). Learning to curb these behaviors will benefit you regardless of what happens to your marriage---so I'd suggest that you do it.<P>I was an expert in "Lovebusting"---and I thought I could never change. I'm sure that your husband sees you the same way. The only way you're going to be able to convince him is to show him---if you need help, Steve Harley is a great counselor and coach, and he was very effective for me and my marriage (888-639-1639).