I've been on vacation and will be coming back tomorrow. I'm actually on my husband's brother's computer - I'm visiting him, his wife and kids w/o my husband. Weird.<P>Anyway, I am very confused right now. I thought I wanted a decision made to end my limbo. I was very prepared and met with my husband a week ago. After a year of separation, he remains indecisive and is still seeing the OW. I basically told him that he needs to make a decision - work on the marriage or divorce me. I said this probably ten times during our discussion. Eventually, I got a lukewarm "yes", to my question as to whether he would file. I asked him to do it before my return from vacation and I got a lot of hemming and hawing. He never directly answered my conditions of attending joint counseling and ending the relationship w/ OW, nor did he ever say he wanted a divorce. He knew ten days before we met that I wanted to discuss these issues yet he still was not prepared for a decision. He only spent the time talking about his feelings, mostly back to how he was susceptible to the affair to begin with. Now he acts that since he made that decision then, there's no decision to make now. It's very strange.<P>Anyway, after thinking about this for a week on vacation with our son, I know that I do not want a divorce. I don't think my husband does either and doubt seriously that he will file. But I will have to do some backing up, although I was clear that I do not want a divorce but also said I wasn't interested in an uncommitted spouse. I don't think this will be great for my credibility.<P>Anyway, here is where I'm confused. There is no question that I see my husband as indecisive, cowardly, inconsiderate, lacking values, and right now a disappointment as a human being. I feel virtually no anger towards him. What I do feel is that he is a weak, cowardly man.<P>Why do I still want to work things out thinking and feeling as I do? A few things - 1) this commitment to family is still ruling alot of my thinking. You just don't break up a family without trying. Maybe, after two years of seriously trying and counseling I could accept this outcome, but not with no effort. 2) IS THIS THE SAME MAN? I am not accepting that this weak beast is my husband, so helpless, unable to take control of his life, not caring about his children. Who is in fantasy here - me or him?<P>I am in an ugly situation. I have very little support base for going on, only my inlaws and the MB forum and some friends I've made here. Who is responsible for my pain now - me or him?<P>I know what I'm likely to hear here, which is part of the reason I'm posting. Tell me why I should continue on and not take the advice of well meaning friends and family.<P>Where is the hope? Thank you and God bless.

Distressed - I hate to say this, but I think that sometimes we seem to have to just live with a situation like this. In my case, my W has been cheating on me since before we were married but has never admitted it. So, for three years now, I've essentially accepted this kind of painful situation because I love her and because, like your H, my W seems to want to stay married despite the affair and, I guess, all things considered, I do too. We talk a lot, are affectionate, make love, do things together, etc., etc., but her affair drives a deep wedge between us where real intimacy is concerned. So I do sympathize very much with your situation and can understand why you would want to stay married despite your H's unwillingness to give up his affair.<P>Maybe counseling would help some in your situation? Can you get him to go with you to see a counselor? I'm sure others here have suggested this, and it does seem like a good way to at least force him to confront the issue head-on instead of waffling his way out of it. I'd also recommend (you probably have done this) reading some of the threads started by Bozo's_Deb whose situation seems similar to yours in some ways. I guess what I'm saying here is that there are many motives for staying even in a bad marriage, or one that's gone bad - including just plain love for the partner, no matter how dorkily they may behave, holding the family together (which seems to be one of your main motives), or just a stubborn refusal to give up something that's yours! So I'd say, if you want to stay married, work on it! Keep after that crazy H of yours to give up his affair and recommit himself to your marriage, whatever it takes to do it! You might be surprised at the results. Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex<P>P.S. A teacher of mine once said, "A bad relationship is better than no relationship." I didn't agree with him at the time and I'm not sure I do now, but I'm still thinking about it.

Thanks Wex. I get alot of comments from my family about my "lack of dignity" in continuing to work on this marriage and being so nice to someone that doesn't deserve it. At my core, I agree with this comment, but I feel I'm doing what I have to to maximize the chances of recovery. I bet you have similar feelings.<P>My current plan is to continue with Plan A. I think I've been very good at it these last few months. I will not bring up anything about the divorce discussion nor relationship issues and see if he does (I doubt it). I plan to go on as if the discussion we had didn't happen.<P>I think we have made great progress in our communication and enjoyment of time together, and I also think husband thinks so too. He just is so entrenched in his affair and in justifying what he has done that he doesn't want to back away from his position. I saw too many tears to believe that none of this matters to him.<P>I post-it noted parts of After the Affair. He hasn't read a thing or made any kind of effort for a year. I haven't tried to educate him for months (love buster), but I really think that book talks about some of the things he's mentioned (the "it would never work" thinking that makes recovery impossible since you never give your spouse and relationship a chance). Should I try to find some way to get him to read those excepts?<P>Please, I need more help from the braintrust that resides here. Am I on the right track or not?

Hi Distressed.<P>I am surprised I ran across your thread, because I have been off and on for a little more than a few days, and have missed many posts. I don't know why today I decided to go 4 pages back to retrieve your thread.<P>Well, unfortunately we try to predict how we feel - and sometimes we surprise our self in how we feel. It is okay.<P>It is ABSOLUTELY okay to tell hubby you are changing your mind, or withdrawing your ultimatum. Tell him why, - but leave the part about how you see him : cowardly, etc. <P>As far as the advice you've been getting from well meaning others - that sure is prideful advice. I think if you want to give it 2 years - that is okay. If you want to go 8 years that is okay too. You know how you feel, and you must be true to yourself. Forget about prideful decisions. Know your heart. It is okay!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Now he acts that since he made that decision then, there's no decision to make now. It's very strange.<P>Who is responsible for my pain now - me or him?<P>I know what I'm likely to hear here, which is part of the reason I'm posting. Tell me why I should continue on and not take the advice of well meaning friends and family.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What is the reason you want to know "who is responsible for your pain"? How will it change the outcome to find who is responsible?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I get alot of comments from my family about my "lack of dignity" in continuing to work on this marriage and being so nice to someone that doesn't deserve it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think the well meaning family and friends are totally disregarding the outcome you want. You want a restored fulfilling marriage. They want you to have dignity. Perhaps true dignity is achieved from truly striving to have a restored fulfilling marriage? Maybe true dignity doesn't come from prideful decisions, but rather humility. <P>Maybe if you can show your husband that it is okay to change your mind, and follow your heart/gut/values/convictions, maybe he will see that the decision he made a year ago to start an affair is not set in stone.<P>God Bless.<P><BR>

trustntruth:<P>Your reply was just what I needed. I need to focus on the goal and not get caught up in the dignity/humiliation aspect. I've been doing this so long that I should be better at the psychology by now.<P>My husband is a major enigma. I spent a whole fun-filled day with him and our son this week and we had a great time. He didn't bring up the divorce topic and neither did I. My sense is that if I don't bring it up, he will never do anything about it. So I'm trying to reinstitute "safe and comfortable".<P>I've moved back to the mode we had before, but I think I'm a bit wiser. I'll spend time with him but only talk about safe subjects and try to meet his emotional needs. He seems to really enjoy that. It's only when I try to get him to make a decision that he gets flaky. I also don't understand his relationship with the OW. There isn't much physical evidence that it's all that serious, yet he says he won't stop seeing her. Anyway, I'll go with this a while longer before I bring up the counseling subject again. Where I've gotten wiser is on the topic of when to bring up the relationship topics. The answer is NEVER (or at least until I'm really ready to end it). If he ever reaches the point that he WANTS to be with us, he'll bring it up himself. It's not fear of talking that causes him to avoid the discussion, it's that he doesn't want to change his lifestyle at this time (OW, obsessive working, no responsibilities, not wanting to invest any effort on family). One of the main things people point out to me is how great the current set-up is for him (having his cake and eating it too). I'm really nice to him and plan fun things for us to do, he can see the kids at his convenience (which is not that often), spend time with the OW, not have to do or plan anything for us, and I take care of all the responsibilities (house, kids health & education, child care drop offs and pick-ups, investments, taxes, etc). Yet it's also clear by his inaction that he doesn't want to make the current situation permanent by pursuing divorce. Anyone have more insight on this?<P>Thanks so much for the encouraging response. Right now, I need it.

Distressed-<BR>We are in a similar situation. My H ended the affair in May, but works with her. We are in counseling, but he won't agree to 'work on' things. He admitted last week in counseling that the attraction for her is still there. I know at this point that nothing can improve until he takes the steps necessary to get her out of our lives (get a new job). I understand the feelings -- where is his backbone? Doesn't he have any sense of pride and dignity to get himself out of this? <P>We are heading towards divorce, but like you it seems like the more I demand the more he wants to leave. We no longer have fun family times together because I've told him I won't settle for half a husband. <P>Last week he told me he was going to file. Then broke down and cried as the discussion continued. When I asked him directly "Are you saying I should just give up?", he answered "I don't know." Huh? You want to file for divorce but you don't know if you want me to give up? <P>I think you have hit the nail on the head. Stop demanding answers from him and just let him be. If you can do it -- apparently I can't.

Dear Distressed,<BR>I am going through exactly the same situation only we have no children together. Met w/ my husband last night and he cried thru most of the evening. He too does not want to take control of this situation, he just talks about what is in his "heart". We had a wonderful relationship before he gave his heart away. He is questioning his own values and what kind of person he is. I have made every effort and I mean tried every means of emotion and reason. Nothing I give is a comfort to him. This woman has captivated him and the fact that she is married to a very kind man and has two children is not a motivation to end it either. Finally, last night I offered for him to just file and let me be free for I had no more resources...my last to offer was counseling thru my church and that if he was looking for peace of mind truly that God could offer him that. He said he wasn't worthy. I tried to explain to him that none of us are and that's the point. I told him that was the greatest and the last thing I had left to offer. It has made a big difference for me to daily try to let go of my husband and give him to God. Of course I backslide when I remember our 6-1/2 years of bliss. I try not to dwell on that now...it's too painful. I truly love him, but he does not love himself and that I can do nothing about. He says he loves me and that I am his best friend. I have told him that should he choose to divorce me and free me to another man that friendship must end. I will not do what has been done to me to another woman, nor would I do it to my new man should I ever have a new love. This other woman is leading my husband on and has a history of this. He just doesn't get how devious and selfish women can be in order to add excitement to their lives. He says not to blame her, that he and his confusion (midlife crisis) are soley to blame.<BR>I am getting too long winded here.<BR>I would like to converse with you on this as I felt as if I was reading my own story.<BR>All I can say is constant prayer and keeping busy is the best healer..so is time.<BR>Please reply..also anyone else in this situation. We aren't alone.<BR>Cathy

Distressed, I'm sorry I haven't been responding to anyone in awhile. I am in a wierd place myself. Sort of shut down. No advice to give, but follow your heart. It's awful being in limbo, but you are having good times with him and the kids, so I see that as a positive. Hang in there, only you know what you are capable of. Email me when you can.