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#61933 12/18/01 01:05 AM
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I do not understand this completely. I guess I am trying to come up with something that will work for my marriage. I explained it to my husband, but can I give you an example and you suggest a way that both of us could be in enthusiatic agreement?<p>My husband is friends with this husband and wife. He likes to go over there house. They smoke pot, drink, curse, hang out late. Knowing that I don't do any of these things, he does not invite me over. Recently I even found out that he has been cheating on me with this man's wife! He wants to remain friends with this man, they have been friends for years, but I have a serious problem with the whole thing and have had one since before I knew about the cheating thing. Because when he goes over there he stays out too late, and he smokes. But he that is where he goes to have fun and relax. I know this is not good for our marriage.<p>Now, I don't think he should go over there. He wants to go. How do we resolve this conflict? <p>I told him about the policy of joint agreement. He said he does not see how it would work in this situation and frankly I don't either. He says that there is always going to be things he wants to do that I am not happy about, is he never supposed to do them? I tried to tell him that it does not mean he CAN'T do them, it means that we have to find a way to please both of us, but how. Give me an example. <p>Help.<p>Tracey M.

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Hi<p>It seems like neither of you are prepared to negotiate and find a solution........ I think you should seriously consider whether you wan't to continue with a marriage like that!

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First of all, thank you for responding, however, I am a little offended, if I did NOT want to try and work my marriage out, then I would not be asking for help. I am very disappointed for this type of response, the first time I posted a message. I had hoped that this would be a place that I could get some help, not discouragement. I realize that this is not an ideal situation, but I do not want to divorce, and I do not think it is hopeless. My husband is used to doing things his way as am I. I am not excusing his behavior, however, I do not think a divorce is the automatic answer. I am trying to make my marriage work. He has to learn, just like I have to learn. Divorce crosses my mind, but I was hoping that through posting on this site, I could get some advice and other alternative to help me with this difficult situation, not encouragement to divorce! <p>How can you say that neither of us are ready for negotiation?? We are seriously discussing it and we do not know how to accomplish it. <p>I am very discouraged by this and I am praying that there are more positive (or at least supportive) responses in the future.<p>
Tracey

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Hi Tracey,<p>It's VERY DIFFICULT (if not IMPOSSIBLE) to POJA through drug use and an affair.<p>I think the more effective route would be to begin a BIG TIME Plan A effort. Have you read about Plan A?<p>POJA can come later, when the marriage is stronger.<p>You have EVERY RIGHT to be uncomfortable with this situation. You have EVERY RIGHT to want the contact to STOP! <p>Does this woman's husband know of the affair?<p>Keep reading and learning and begin implimenting the concepts here -- and if you can afford it, a call to the Harley's would be really helpful.<p>Best wishes!!!<p>If you need more info on the Plans or POJA, let me know and I'll provide some links for you to read. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

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Oh God, thank you Sheryl for your response. I am a little more enouraged. I am grateful for your words. I may not be ready for POJA, but I know we must start SOMEWHERE!!! I am not interested in a divorce, but I don't know what to do. <p>No I do not know what the plan As or Bs are. I have seen a few members refer to them, though. Please give me the associated links. <p>Thanks.

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Here's a link (underlined in red, just click) to our General Welcome to All New Builders.<p>There's a lot here, and lot's more links to follow...<p>You'll know everything there is to know!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Continued best wishes...

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I have a question for you. You said that your husband spends lots of time with his good male friend at his home with his wife and has cheated with the wife. Does the male friend know about this? If not I would inform him immediately and I am sure he would put a stop to it and allowing your husband to come over at all. I would also seriously consider marriage counseling. I wish you luck.

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Do you think informing the male friend of this would help my situation? Other than ruining the friendship between my husband and him? I think this would do more to hurt my situation, I am hoping that my husband will do all of this on his own without me taking it to that level. I don't feel that it is my place (no matter what has mappened)to go behind my husband's back and do that. Maybe I am being naive, but I don't think that is the right thing.<p>He suggested and I agreed to start counseling, as soon as possible, but because this is the end of the year, no one will see us until the beginning of the year. I am still trying to get in to see someone before the New Year, though. This is going to be one strained Christmas and 2nd year anniversary (Dec. 31) and New Year's. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I am so sad. <p>Tracey

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I am sorry for you pain. Actually I do believe by informing your husband's friend it would eventually be a positive. First, if the roles were reversed, wouldn't you wish to be informed.
Second, it would force your husband to face up to what he has done and not continue to lie and cheat to his friend. Thirdly, it would curtail him going over to the home to get high, drink and screw his friend's wife. It seems to me that you are enabling him to continue this type of behavior. I don't understand why you are fearful of hurting the friendship. What kind of friendship is it when your husband is having sex with the friend's wife? By keeping this information to yourself you are allowing it to continue and in fact closing your eyes to it.
By informing the husband it will force your husband to take responsibility for his actions and take a good hard look at himself. You are doing him no favors by allowing him to walk away from the mess he has created. I am sure you would have wanted someone to tell you the truth instead of keeping silent. I wish you luck.

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Tracey,<p>You seem to have a pretty good fundamental grasp of what to do and not to do (you're right, ratting out your husband won't deposit anything into his lovebank).<p>I highly recommend the phone counseling available here at MB---the Harley "kids" do it (Steve and Jenn), and they're both terrific. If you like these principles, and you've gone over the MB information, it's a great way to get started.<p>The Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) is one of the most important tools in the MB arsenal. It states that you are never to do something unless you and your husband have reached an enthusiastic agreement. Drug use? Not unless you're in agreement. Seeing this guy? Nope.<p>It's hard, because you'll figure on never doing anything again. But it's critical in that this rule prevents you from harmful and thoughtless actions and behaviors that will destroy your marriage. Marriages are usually destroyed because a spouse does something that hurts the other spouse. They're not usually harmed as much because one spouse "can't" do something because the other doesn't agree.<p>To go along with the POJA, you need to learn complete honesty. This way, you're both not "secretly sacrificing" for each other (which can breed resentment---a killer of romantic love). Complete honesty goes hand in hand with the POJA---and the final skill that you need to successfully use these tools are negotiation skills. You must learn how to successfully negotiate, so that when you do have something you want to do and the other spouse doesn't agree---you learn to listen to the disagreements, brainstorm several solutions, and then pick one that is agreeable to you both.<p>Harley's books "Surviving an Affair" and "Falling in Love, Staying in Love" would probably be very helpful to you right now. But the counseling would be even more valuable (and they'll make you read and work on the books too...)---you can call 888-639-1639 for appointments.

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I respectfully disagree with the previous poster named K. It is not a question of ratting out your husband. The friendship your husband has with his male friend and his wife is a toxic one. He goes over to their home and drinks, gets high, takes drugs and has sex with the friend's wife.
A major principle of Marriage Builders and of the Harley's is that all contact with the OW must stop and there must be no contact or communication whatsoever between your husband and the OW. By not informing the OW's husband you allow the friendship to continue. There is no way the friendship between your husand and this man can continue because there will have to be communication and contact between your husband and the OW. Clearly your husband is attracted to the OW and allowing any contact between them will allow this attraction to continue.
You seem to not wish to hinder the friendship between your husband and this male friend. You are making a hugh mistake by not informing the OW's husband because now the friendship will continue and communications and contact will continue between your husband and the OW. This totally goes against Marriage Builders. The last thing you want is to have this friendship continue because it is toxic and will lead and continue to harm your marriage. Hopefully by contacting the OW's husband the friendship will cease as will all contact with the OM's wife. Why you would want to allow contact from your husband with these people I believe again is a hugh mistake. All contact must stop between your husband and the OM's wife for your marriage to survive. This is the principle of Marriage Builders. I wish you luck.

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BryanP:<p>You can disagree---and in a way, you are right. There's no doubt that Harley would recommend that the affair must end. As well as the drug use (in fact, if it's drug abuse---he'd probably recommend immediate separation until this issue is resolved). But I do have the benefit of counseling with the Harley's for over a year in a very similar situation, so when I give this advice, it's very likely the EXACT advice you would get from Steve, Jenn, or Dr. Harley himself.<p>Your husband needs to make these decisions for himself. You can clearly (without lovebusting) state your problems with the relationship. But if you go behind his back (in other words, ignoring the POJA) and damage this friendship---you will be making withdrawals from your husband's love bank. That's to be avoided in Plan A. Even in Plan B, it's to be avoided in the form of active lovebusting.<p>Tracey, you could certainly go to your husband with your desire to discuss your husband's affair with the OW's husband. And if the two of you came to an enthusiastic agreement to do so---great. But if you didn't, or if you feel that any action you're contemplating would be a lovebuster to your husband---you are to avoid it in Plan A.<p>That's Harley's advice... As well as the principles of MarriageBuilders. Trying to force your spouse to do something is a lovebuster---even if it is as "logical" as trying to end an affair (the ultimate lovebuster in itself).

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I appreciate the wisdom of both of your responses. However, I must take each with an understanding that neither of you knows my husband like I do (or like I thought I did.) But this I do know...it HAS to be his decision. I do not want to (nor can I) MAKE him end this friendship. I want him to do it on his own, you know? <p>I don't think me telling the OW husband will accomplish the goal in the most positive way. I think the idea of him telling his friend on his own is positive. I don't want to piss him off unnecessarily. I am hoping through our continued conversations and through marriage counseling, he will come to realize that this relationship can not continue. <p>I love him, I respect him, I want to fix my marriage, not cause more problem. I think that this is best. He says that he wants to make me happy, and he wants to do whatever necessary to get our marriage back on the right track. So, I want him to do it because he wants to do what ever is necessary not because I b@#$% and moan and complain, you know? <p>Maybe I am naive, maybe the pain is too fresh, maybe I am in denial, but I HAVE to believe that he will see that there is no other option. I HAVE to trust God to reveal this to him. After all, I had nothing to do with him telling me in the first place, God did it. I know God knew it would hurt, but He (God) also knew it was the only way for us to truly become one. So, I have to trust God that he will show my husband that this friendship (if you can call it that) is not real, and can not continue. <p>
Tracey

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I appreciate the wisdom of both of your responses. However, I must take each with an understanding that neither of you knows my husband like I do (or like I thought I did.) But this I do know...it HAS to be his decision. I do not want to (nor can I) MAKE him end this friendship. I want him to do it on his own, you know? <p>I don't think me telling the OW husband will accomplish the goal in the most positive way. I think the idea of him telling his friend on his own is positive. I don't want to piss him off unnecessarily. I am hoping through our continued conversations and through marriage counseling, he will come to realize that this relationship can not continue. <p>I love him, I respect him, I want to fix my marriage, not cause more problem. I think that this is best. He says that he wants to make me happy, and he wants to do whatever necessary to get our marriage back on the right track. So, I want him to do it because he wants to do what ever is necessary not because I b@#$% and moan and complain, you know? <p>Maybe I am naive, maybe the pain is too fresh, maybe I am in denial, but I HAVE to believe that he will see that there is no other option. I HAVE to trust God to reveal this to him. After all, I had nothing to do with him telling me in the first place, God did it. I know God knew it would hurt, but He (God) also knew it was the only way for us to truly become one. So, I have to trust God that he will show my husband that this friendship (if you can call it that) is not real, and can not continue. <p>
Tracey

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Don't get me wrong, I will talk to him and tell him how I feel about it, but that is all. I will voice my concern when ever it is appropriate, but I can not make him. I can pray for us, pray for him, but I can not make him. It will be hard, very difficult, but after reading some of the stories, and the articles, the basic concepts and replies, I think that is a good way to handle it. <p>Tracey

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I want to wish you the best and hope that your
husband sees the light and does the right thing
for you and your marriage. Happy Holidays.


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