I am very new here...just read some Q+A articles about marrital conflicts...and I am not quite sure how to proceed, but I'll give it a try.<p>My husband and I have been married 20 years and boy is our Love Bank drained!! We met when we were both addicted to drugs and alchohol and have been up and down some very rough and rocky roads together. We are both un-addicted persons now, have a 17 year old son and jobs and a home etc...normal life style stuff...., but I am afraid we have fallen into a terrible pattern of mis-communication and "abuse". My husband is not all to blame, although he is the one with the anger and violence issues,...I have learned to "fight back" in many different creative and some destructive ways which has only helped to escalate the ineffectivness of our ability to resolve issues and move forward in our relationship. I think we have become accustomed to a way of doing and being with each other that is harmful..at least for me. Cause I feel trapped and want to run away!!! Way far away!! My son is going into the Marines this summer and I have actually toyed with the idea of leaving my husband soon after my son does. How awful huh? <p>Anyway, that is why I am frustrated----frstrtd----I want to change things...but my husband refuses to go to counsling, hates anykind of questioneres or books or self help stuff...he is a stubborn set in his ways Texan and quite frankly, I don't know what to do to help myself and/or him. Anyone got any clues, let me know.<p>Thanks and God Bless,
frstrtd

Hi...Sorry no one has responded yet. I recommend posting to the Gen.Questions site. It gets much more traffic. I saw your respons on the long Thinker/SNL post and hopped over.<p>Well, my son is 21 and just arrived back home from the Army. My husband and I picked him up at Christmas. The first thing I thought is that being in the Marines will be a tough thing for your son. Can you imagine what it would add to that if he were to call home and discover that his mom had left his dad?<p>Now, to the problem. Does your husband realize the seriousness of the state of your marriage? Does he realize you are considering leaving and ending the marriage?<p>My husband too refused to go to counseling. That didn't stop me. Go for yourself. I did. He knew I was going, but I was going for me. I really didn't talk that much about what went on in those sessions, but eventually he saw a difference. Then one day he finally asked me if I thought he should go to. I told him that it was up to him. We did counseling for 2 years, together and individually.<p>You probably would benefit from the counseling regardless of whether you stay married or not. My original intent was to go to counseling to get strong enough to leave my husband. Thankfully it did not turn out that way.<p>Well, I don't know if this helps. But, AGAIN, I would say post to the Gen. Questions or Recovery board. Some of the people can be very helpful! The have already been down the road you are on.<p>Good luck and God bless.

Hi Susan and thanks for the advice...but I don't know how to get to the Gen Questions board you are talking about....maybe if I jump around a little I will find it.<p>And FYI...my son is more fully aware of my dilema then my husband is...he has recently mentioned that joining the Marines is his "way out"(of a negative enviornment that involves my husbands bad, bad temper, yelling, name calling, putting us down a lot, etc...), but he felt bad for me because I didn't seem to have a "way out". NOW, don't misunderstand, I don't want to leave...but I don't see any other way out of the situation because my husband is so resistant to change. AND I do go to counsling and have off and on for a few years... and of course he feels as if I need it and I am the whole problem. He even comments about how things have "gotten better" since I have gone because I have changed some bad patterns that were a horrible response to his verbal and emotional abusisve habits. So isn't that just dandy. I really don't think God wants me to go either....<p>He is a very disrespectful, hurtful and angry person who thinks he has to control every aspect of my life or at least be notified of whatever it is I am doing...it drives me nuts at times...but by the grace of God, I am learning to be patient and kind in spite of it all. I have drawn clearer boundries now and am learning how to better control myself and appreciate myself for who I am. But I gotta tell ya, at times I feel trapped. God is the only one who has helped me through this. He gives me grace and I gladly take it and use it. <p>Anyway, that is all for now. I am going to find the other board and maybe do some posting there.....<p>Thanks and God Bless,
Beverly

General Questions II and In Recovery is actually under the Infidelity Section of the Message Board. I don't know if an affair has occured in your marriage, but it sounds as though you are a good candidate to have one. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Not everyone that posts on those boards have had affairs, but the majority of them have. It is still extremely helpful to talk with them because they have ALL had problems in their marriages.<p>[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: Susan ]</p>

Also, you say that your son is more fully aware of the delima than you husband is...<p>Well, if you told him you were planning to leave, is there a possibility that THAT could be the wake-up call he needs to pay attention to the marriage? Would he then consider doing what needed to be done to do his share in meeting your needs and try and repair things?

Well, Susan since you asked, the answer is no, I don't think it would make a difference to him whether I TOLD him I was going to leave...because first of all I really don't make enough money to leave and be on my own and he knows that and second, I really in my heart of hearts, don't want to leave. This is not about me leaving, it is about me being able to understand how to cope while I am still in the relationship. That is why I am here. I want help, real tangiable, it worked for me and maybe it will for you, kind of help. My husband just today once again said "..well maybe if you weren't here things would be better..." Mind you, I said and say nothing about leaving but he brings it up...and that lends me to think that if I left, it would actually be a way out FOR HIM!not me! <p>No, leaving him is not an option. I just say that because I really, really don't know what else to do to get away from feeling so overwhelmed by HIS negativity and HIS controlling behavior and HIS anger issues, etc,etc. I am so eaten up inside with fear and guilt at times too because maybe I am the one who needs to do or say something that will change it all. I am working so hard in this marriage just to tread water so as not to sink, that I am way to tired to swim anywhere!!!! I don't want to sink and I don't want to just stay in the same place all the time either....I want to move, grow and be a part of this glorious world that God put me in. I want to learn and create and be alive...not just try to survive and then when I find I am surviving have someone who is supposed to love me put me down with intermitent verbal abuse and emotional controling tactics!! Man, he makes me so frustrated!! I don't know how I am ever gonna keep from getting so bitter and resentful that I get to a point where I DON'T WANT TO TRY TO LOVE HIM ANYMORE! <p>Well, so much for venting. I am in a depressed mode right now too which doesn't help any. I am sleeping a lot, not doing housework or taking care of myself real well either....oh well...God has a way for me to get through this...I just need to be patient and learn how to listen...<p>Thanks for your caring...<p>[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: frstrtd ]</p>

Sorry, Susan, I think I have to disagree with you about posting in the section under Infidelity you spoke about. I read through it and I really don't think it applies right now to my need to just learn how to cope with what is going on in my marriage. I have very terrible communication and negotiating problems, not 'affair' problems involving other women and men and all that stuff. I pray it never gets there and have made every effort on my part to keep that from happening to me....so...<p>If you happen to come up with any other ideas though, I am open to them<p>Thanks

Your husband sounds like my MOTHER. She is negative, controlling, and very critical. I married my husband at age 20 basically hoping to get away from it. Result is that I am a "pleaser". I tried all my life to please my mother....and here I am 46, and I still have not done it.<p>An example is: I worked for a large hospital. I take my work seriously (remember, I want to please everyone...so I bust my butt at everything). When I had my evaluation, they said, "we never do this, I had to get permission to do this...but, you got a perfect score...there is really nothing we can complain about, nothing we really think you can improve. You give over 100% effort and to show our appreciation, we are giving you this so that you can get the most possible raise". Well, I was so pleased. I wanted to share it with my mother. I thought "finally, she will be so proud". Her response was "oh, that can't be right, after all, nobody is perfect".<p>Yes, attitudes like this can be difficult. It sounds as though your marriage is in a rut, but, as my counselor said, the only thing different in a rut and a grave is the depth.<p>I don't think there is anything you can do to MAKE him change. He has to see the need and have the desire to change. Similar to making an alcoholic want to quit drinking...<p>With my mother, the best thing that I could do was to detach. I got to the point that I decided ok, if she wanted to still make my life miserable, I would leave her alone...and I did. Eventually, after 6 months and 9/11, I suppose she felt bad, so she called me. I don't give her that power anymore. I have read books and had enough therapy that I don't give her the responses she wants.<p>But, this won't work for a marriage. To detach puts more distance between you. Then, if some male were to pay you attention, you would be target for an affair. That is what happened to me. I felt my husband took me for granted. <p>Do you and your husband do things together? Have fun together? If not, maybe you could begin by trying to explore new interests together. <p>I highly recommend anti-depressants if you are depressed. But, more than that, get to the core of your issues in the marriage and try to address them.<p>AGAIN, I say...please post all of this on the other boards. You will get more responses.<p>[ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: Susan ]</p>

If there is no communication, no love, no emotional warmth then there is no marriage.
I am aware of the way guys are down in Texas, there is a real "cult" of macho down there.
You need to decide what is important to you. You need to decide if it is Texas, your husband, your age, a desire to experiment before you get old or just day to day hell driving your decision.
Keep a journal. Are you spiritually grounded? Are you basically a happy person and he is a depressive?<p>I knew a lot of guys in Arkansas that were great! Counseling is a hard sell for most men, it may mean to him that he is not in control and that you are not relying on him for support or affirmation. He is not unfeeling but may want or need a more traditional life style than you do. Remember the blind men and the elephant, they all had different ideas about what was happening.

I am a pleaser but am learning to be my own person. I have a need for approval but if I state my beliefs and people don't agree at least I discover that what i think or believe is okay too.
Balance is important too. I like Alan Watts on Chinese Buddhist beliefs vs. western beliefs.
I like an acceptance of male vs. female and a need of the male for the female and vice-versa. I would like for men to be softer and more compassionate natured but perhaps they are just men. I would suggest M. Scott Peck The Road Less Traveled as a good basic book on personal expression, psychology and basic human nature items. Yes, I would enjoy more love, excitement, passion and joy in my life but I msut create it and ask others to join in.

Hey, I am so glad someone else has posted...welcome to this thread 'very happy'...<p>I enjoyed reading your post. You have some very good suggestions. And just so you know, I don't live in Texas...been there once or twice....but my husband was born and raised there. My reference to his southern upbringing was just my way of establishing his background which, IMO, is riddled with macho-ism and a bit of chauvinism. Not just because he was raised in the south, but mostly because of his mom and dad's influence. <p>Yes, I have examined myself and have determined that spiritually, I am very well grounded in the Bible, in constant prayer and in obedience to God...which is probrably the main reason I haven't left my husband. I may want to abandon a man who lets his anger control his emotions, but God doesn't want me too. I am also reminded often that I am not the most prized female partner in the world either. I have my faults, my own agenda's, my own problems, my own anger issues and 'bad'family traits that he has to deal with. He puts up with a lot to. I just happen to be more vocal and more adamant about wanting to change a bad marriage into a good and productive one. There in lies my frustration....I am very willing and he is not. That is the crux of my problem. Susan said earlier that it's not good to just pull away and do my own thing like you might in other relationships where one party is not willing to co-operate...a marriage really takes 2 and I don't want to sacrifice "we" part of our marriage so that "I" can do my own thing. I feel that hubby and I are at an impass.<p>Oh well, thanks for getting me to look at him in a more objective way. I know he is very much different then I and sometimes I forget to appreciate the differences. Maybe I can get through this easier if I focus my energy on how to get us to work together instead of how to get him to do something he doesn't want to do...ie,counsling or reading a 'help us' book. <p>Well, gotta go....
Take care and God Bless,

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by frstrtd:
<strong>I am very new here...just read some Q+A articles about marrital conflicts...and I am not quite sure how to proceed, but I'll give it a try.<p>My husband and I have been married 20 years and boy is our Love Bank drained!! We met when we were both addicted to drugs and alchohol and have been up and down some very rough and rocky roads together. We are both un-addicted persons now, have a 17 year old son and jobs and a home etc...normal life style stuff...., but I am afraid we have fallen into a terrible pattern of mis-communication and "abuse". My husband is not all to blame, although he is the one with the anger and violence issues,...I have learned to "fight back" in many different creative and some destructive ways which has only helped to escalate the ineffectivness of our ability to resolve issues and move forward in our relationship. I think we have become accustomed to a way of doing and being with each other that is harmful..at least for me. Cause I feel trapped and want to run away!!! Way far away!! My son is going into the Marines this summer and I have actually toyed with the idea of leaving my husband soon after my son does. How awful huh? <p>Anyway, that is why I am frustrated----frstrtd----I want to change things...but my husband refuses to go to counsling, hates anykind of questioneres or books or self help stuff...he is a stubborn set in his ways Texan and quite frankly, I don't know what to do to help myself and/or him. Anyone got any clues, let me know.<p>Thanks and God Bless,
frstrtd</strong><hr></blockquote><p> [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Guess what? I feel like I know you!<p>I am going to give you a website that will help two of them...since you stated you are a Christian.<p>www.kingschapel.org
www.therain.org<p>I find my peace from The Sword of Our Father (His Word)...<p>I know this is a hard time for you. Please find some quite time alone to just plain old "Think."<p>I find that my alone time is the time I like the best, you have to find peace within yourself. (Your inner self your spirit!)<p>I don't think your husband is really going to change...but there is hope if he sees you happy, and smiling, and cheery...it makes them wonder why! Our Father wants you to be happy and we have his blessings here in America...ask God for the blessings he promised to Abraham, they are our blessings...<p> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] That's the best advice I can give...keep smiling and love yourself!

Thank you ineed...I have bookmarked the 2 sites you suggested and will browse through them later. <p>You mean there are some other women out there who are in the same postition as me??? I mean, you said you feel like you know me, so I might gather from that that you also have or are experiencing the same situation with your husband as myself. And that is being in a relationship that is gonna last for the rest of your life, and not really being happy with it or getting a lot of happiness or satisfaction out of it. Marriage for me means being together for a life time, and that means that I will need to resign myself to being with this man for the rest of my life, who a lot of the times wounds me more then he shows love for me. That means that I need to find a way to cope and be happy and be merrily obedient to the call God has put upon me as my husbands wife no matter how my husband acts. As long as he is sexually loyal and continues to now be physically non-abusive, I am committed to stay. I may not like it, but I will do it. I just need help, from any women or even men out there, who have been in this place or are in this place and are getting through it. How do you do it without going nuts?? How do I do this gracfully and while maintaining motivation, drive and hope for the future and not drift away from my husband emotionally or physically?? I know you guys don't have all the answeres, but maybe some of you can help me with some of these obstacles.<p>Thanks and God Bless

You mean there are some other women out there who are in the same postition as me??? <p>Oh yes, there are many out here like you! My husband is also verbally abusive and unaffectionate, and I am a Christian woman in the tough position of trying to live with him. First, I suggest you read a book by Patricia Evan's called "The Verbally Abusive Relationship". You can get it from Amazon.com. It will really open your eyes to what is going on between you and how you can handle it better. Also check out this website: www.verbalabuse.com , it is by the author of the book and there are some boards there that are good to post on. Hope this helps........<p>Anna

Thank You Annavon, I have just ordered the book along with another one from another suggestion made and will be checking out the web site futher today. <p>I have been praying for an 'answer' to the question of how do I remain in this relationship without going crazy and while still 'being' my own person. I want to grow and progress forward in my own life. Having a hubby who continually finds ways to put down what ever you do, who is unforgiving and who only listens to words that are shouted to him, if he listens at all, and who acts like a selfish teen age child most of the time...having a LIFE partner like that can take the wind out of the sales of your life flowing along smothly or of it flowing at all. But I know that my prayers never go unanswered and I wait on God to show me what to do. Maybe a few good books that will point me in the right direction and a lot of prayer and forgivness and bold thinking and doing will lead me to the right path. <p>Thanks again