I've been married for 1yr my third marraige this man is everything Ive ever dreamed of he is the first person I could totally trust he seemed so different from other guys before getting married we talked extensively on what we wanted and what we were looking for etc.. I expressed my dislikes for porn because of living with a porn addict for 15yrs I know the damage it does to a relationship. my present H promised me he would not bring this into our marraige or house and that he didn't want to hurt me, I believed him and knew I had found a safe and happy place. well months later on our computer i found porn cookies hmmm I asked him about it and he denied having anything to do with it, so I accepted that with no worries then one night he got up from bed said he couldn't sleep and was going to watch some tv well later I heard some moaning and to my surprise there he was watching a dirty movie on showtime and doing his thing when he came to bed I confronted him and told him what i saw he said he was asleep must of been a dream he was having.. red flags went up then in december I got our dishnetwork cable bill and on it was a adult movie(all star sex double feature) I was beside my self and showed him the bill he denied it so I went and found it on the programing and found the time and date it was purchased he finally admitted it said he woke up horny and turned it on for a few minutes felt guilty and thought it was stupid and turned it off. like I believe that! He broke his promise to me had no regard for my feelings only his desires. now I don't feel like I have a safe place anymore and I am having a hard time trusting him and his word. Don't men see the hurt this does to a relationship and damage it does to the self esteem of the spouse it bring on much hurt and distrust. why do men do this? dont they care who they hurt? where is the self control? when this was going on i would be very lucky to have sex with my husband 1 time a week he was just not interested in me at all now I know why. now that he has been caught we have sex atleast 4 times week.
thanks
pam
[ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: watergirl ]<p>[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: watergirl ]</p>

This is such an issue! In my professional opinion (NOT!) men like to watch porn partly because they are very visual beings. Sex for them (or so my h tells me)is kind of like taking a pee...a necessary physical release. And watching porn is a quick, easy way to achieve 'lift off'. I don't think your h is 'addicted' to porn---men just like it. H says it's easier to watch than to use your imagination for arousal.<p>Now, that said, I can tell you that my problem with h's watching of porn is my own insecurity. I am afraid that he does find those fantasy women more attractive and that I look like crap by comparison. I am also afraid that he will like looking at them so much better that he will no longer want to have sex with me. <p>The resolution for us was that I first told my h how much it bothered me and why. Then I told him that I didn't mind if he looked at some porn--just not excessive--as long as it didn't interfere with our sex life. He doesn't look now because he knows it bothers me. I know this is not the case for everyone---just my experience.<p>Good luck.

[img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I don't believe it is "okay" I believe you have to confront it! I think it is nothing but EVIL. Yeah, all there is is excuses for this behavior. I am a woman, I love sex. I crave it! I don't watch porn. I think it is nothing short of forgive me for bringing up the Christian attitude but I can't help it ... nothing short of Satan trying to ruin our relationships. <p>I wish you luck ... my best advice is:<p>Open your mouth! God intended for us to kick dragon! We are strong in spirit and God is within us because we know it is wrong and we will figure a way for our husbands to see this! My husband spends more time with porn on the internet than with me.<p>Good Luck.<p>God Bless You.

watergirl,<p>I don't want to alarm you unnecessarily, but may I suggest that you have a read of a thread that I just started? I really, really do not want you to find yourself in my situation in another 10 years.<p>Once you have read the hyperlinked thread, feel free to reply on either thread.<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=31&t=005768<p>If you are interested, search for almostbroken's threads, as her warning is very convincing.

Trying again and again,<p>I was in your position for 15yrs with my last marraige it was the worst 15yrs of my life I had no self asteem I felt ugly and undesireable I got beat up many times for throwing away his movies or magazines it was that important to him I obviously was not this behavior ended up in affairs which ended our marraige and Im a better person for it... so with this new life I have I will not put up with it I put the ball in his court after finding out what what he did we talked and I explained my thoughts and feelings on it and advised him that if it happens in any form again im walking and I mean that I have no room for this in my life, im on the look out we have no computer anymore and I have locks on the adult sites on our cable but if there is a will there is a way as you well know.. when he finally admitted he did do this I asked him why he did it.. his response" I was horny and I bought the movie and watched it for a few minutes and felt guilty and turned it off and thought how stupid it was to do that" Im not stupid I have lots of experience in this. I just never thought I would have to do this in this marraige I felt like I was in a very safe and comfortable place.. and now my world is uncertain once again.. why cant men see what harm this does is it that important they have to ruin their lives and others? like your husband he sees how it affects you and he does it anyway with no regard to you and your feelings on it. I will pray for you and all on this site who are battleing with this may God bless you and your husband and I pray that his presence will be known to both of you and I pray he will guide your husband back to you so you can heal your marraige and he would want it..
take care my prayers are with you<p>[ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: watergirl ]</p>

watergirl,
I posted this on another thread and thought it might apply here too so here it is...<p> I would like to tell you a story about myself.
I am now 40 years old. I have been married for 16 years. I have two wonderful kids.
In the begining everything seemed wonderful. My wife and I had fun together, did all kinds of things together. The problem was, I had the same problem that your husband is having. I didn't have contact with other woman but I too got caught up in porn and such. I would hang posters of girls in bikini's all over my garage and I would keep telling my wife "it's okey, don't worry...." I knew she didn't like it but I just kept telling her it was nothing to worry about.
As time went on she finally gave in and stoped bothering me about it. But what really happend was she began to pull away from me emotionally. She wouldn't share her deepest feelings with me. Over time I began to kid myself without even realising it, I could get her to go along with anything I wanted, thinking that she was okey with it. In reallity, she was just keeping her true feelings to herself because she knew that trying to convince me was useless.
Years would go by and her true emotional needs were not being met by me. I thought everything was just fine. All our friends thought all was just fine. I'll bet you can guess what I am about to tell you.
It was almost two years ago. Here I am aproching 40 years old, thinking life is grand. I have everything under control nice house, nice boat, motorhome, great job, good retirment comming.... Then out of the blue I stumbled across a phone number on my wifes cell phone with the name of a man that I knew of very well. I was blown away. It almost killed me. I literally went into shock. I couldn't eat, sleep, work.... I never felt so much pain in all of my life. Even my wife of 16 years went into shock. She too could not believe that she got herself involved into a full blown affair. But it happened. This guy came into her life and began to tell her everything a girl wanted to hear. She blew him off for a YEAR, but he kept after her telling her all the sweetest things and building her up, makeing her feel special. Then after a year of his persute, she gave in and once she gave in she got caught up into it and couldn't get out. Her affair lasted almost two years when I caught her.
The next year after that was a living HELL. But by the grace of God and allot of work and rebuilding we survived and are doing pretty good now.
I wouldn't wish this story on any one. It was a living hell. I came very close to suicide. I almost killed the man that crossed the line with my wife. I could have spent the rest of my life in prison for it too.
When I look back over the years, I wish I had never brought porn into my home. I would have never pined up girls in my shop. I would have made my wife feel like a beauty queen and I would have listend to what she had to say instead of invalidating her feeling by telling her that what she was feeling was wrong and that what I was doing was okay.
I am so sorry for the way I acted in the past and I can only hope that my story will open the eyes of men like your husband because it is painfully clear that he is following my foot steps.
I hope you show this letter to him and mabey just mabey he will have sence enough to stop and run from what he is doing.<p>God Bless and my prayers are with you.<p>Stillhurts

Thank you stillhurts. I was feeling like I was the only one who had reached the place of emotional shut down. I am very new to MB, trying to find some reasoning behind what I am going through and feeling and it is helping. I am glad to hear that you and your wife are working things out, gives hope to those of us in the depths of it. Thank you for sharing with us here. It does help.

My STBX had what I thought was a little regular guy stuff, the occasional movie or mag. I thought that was OK, as long as when he went to a nudie bar he took me with. Kind of odd I know, but I figured he would get his fun, and I would keep my husband. Little did I know, giving him this inch allowed him to think he could take miles and miles. I am not big into church or a prude by any sense of the word. I'll get down and dirty, but when it comes to porn I am totally and completely against it. There is no way to combine computers, movies, mags, & strippers into a healthy marriage. I know that some couples watch movies together, but I even question what that is for now. Porn and sexual addiction ruined my marriage. I think that using porn to get "warmed up" or to relieve stress could be IMHO just a cop out for some need not being met within the marriage. Who knows though, maybe I am just a bitter old bat at 32. My court date is in two weeks for a divorce, so whatever I did it sure wasn't right. So, in closing ignore all I've wrote and put if off to the ravings of a lunitic who has had too much chineese and mt. dew.
elizabeth

Thank you all for your replys its amazing how may people are or have suffered with this porn thing.
Stillhurts.. you have made yourself into a wonderful caring man you should be proud of yourself I have to say I am proud of you. allot of men need to come to their senses they are blinded by this evil thing that consumes their minds and thoughts and world leaving them familyless and worse sometimes. thank you all for you thoughts and help and god bless all of you
pamela

Dear Pam
Let me add a man's voice here. I agree with all that has been said, and I agree, porn is wrong and harmful. I certainly don't want to excuse it, but I think there are reasons that make it easier for men to get involved. But remember, these are not excuses!<p>Men are fragile, no matter what you think. And when we hurt we internalize it. No one likes pain and rejection, percieved or real, so we try to relieve it with other behavior and escape. We all know the usual addictive behaviors - drinking, drugs, porn, eating, shopping, plus almost anything else that we use regularly for relief of pain.<p>For men visual stimulation is very powerful, and sexual visual stimulation is extremely strong. When men and women are aroused our brains release endorphines - chemicals that are more powerful, more addicting, and harder to walk away from than morphine. Numerous studies have shown this to be true. Porn makes people feel "good" by giving a shot of these chemicals. It becomes easier to run to porn than to deal with problems, to work out argurments, and to work at a relationship when it is hard. It is an escape into non-reality.<p>There is no relationship with a picture, so it is safe. You can make her out to be anything you want or imagine. Always hot, always panting after you, and never a relationship problem at all. If men would see how these movies and pictures are made - take after take of the same sexual action, 20 people standing around to work the equipment needed for movies, and actors who are acting, not living, who are not in love, but are soul-less and hollow - maybe this would help cure them.<p>Many women run to food or sweets or shopping. I know this is not the same, and I don't mean to demean women. These do not harm a marriage as easily, and do not end a sex life usually. But it may help to understand the allure of this as an excape from reality and pain. The problem is that men get addicted to their own brain chemicals more strongly than a morphine addict is addicted to the drug, and men begin to use any excuse to escape. Add to this plain old lust after the anorexic, computer and/or surgically enhanced, always ready body, and you can begin to see the problem.<p>Your pain and sense of betrayal and fear are so evident, and I hurt for you, Pam. Don't give up yet! You have been traumatized by your former marriage, and this is a bitter reminder of that trauma, but it is too early to give up. Try to get on his side and ask how you can help him rather than condemning him. Condemning will only drive him deeper and make him become more secretive.<p>There is a good book you might want to look at. It is called "An Affair of the Mind" by Laurie Hall. Her husband was addicted to porn for 20 years. This is her story of survival and restoration, but it is not easy to read - her pain and dark times are clearly spelled out, and her marriage is healing, but hot whole yet. I think it will help, though, is pointing you in the right direction.<p>praying<p>rjd

watergirl,<p>If for no other reason, your H should stop all use of porn because his use obviously hurts you. Plus, there are a ton of other reasons, many of which have been mentioned by others who have already replied.<p>Another book, Christian based, is "Silent Battle: Ministering to those trapped in the deception of pornography". But, how helpful all the book suggestions in the world are is hard to tell. If your H is not even willing to negotiate on the point, then you are not getting anywhere on the issue.<p>There is absolutely no way your H should have secrets from you, no matter what they relate to. When you married him, I bet you thought that you would discuss all things relating to the sexuality in your M. Well, your H either did not think the same thing or has lied to you. Either way, this is serious and you are right not to accept it.<p>Harley has written 2 articles in the Q&A's on porn. The Enough is Enough campaign has recently written a report on how 'harmless' (NOT) porn is. Very, very few people who have really studied the effects of porn believe that it is okay. Rather, the more recent research studies all point in one direction: porn is harmful. It is now clear that there is no satisfying the 'want' associated to porn use, there is no volume that satisfies, and so there is a high risk that the habit escalates over time. Also, it has been shown that viewing of anything but the most conventional porn (softcore and boring hardcore stuff), will eventually translate into wanting to try it out in real life. Both these finding have been confirmed recently by different sources.<p>Ineed, if you can't get your H's agreement on porn use that you can live with (whether that is none or only with you in the room, or whatever is acceptable to you), then what about joint counselling with a C that you can both trust and who you have both agreed upon? If you are part of a church or parish, another option is the minister/pastor/counsellor from there.<p>Btw, have you made any progress on this issue with your H since you first posted?<p>
rjd,<p>I know you are not defending the use of porn by a married man, but your "man's point of view" deserves some comment.<p>There may be 'no relationship with a picture', but it is NOT at all safe. All the rationalization and reasons in the world won't change the fact that porn is hurtful and damaging. It is, when hidden from one's W in M, a betrayal. Whether the person viewing it wants to believe it is hurtful is almost irrelevant; it IS hurtful to that person's W; it is a recurring betrayal; it is a death by a thousand cuts.<p>The stories on this board are but a few of the horrible scenarios resulting, at least in part, from continued porn use. A visit to a prison where sex offenders are incarcerated would yield dozens of other examples that are even more extreme. The situations where porn use stay 'controlled' in the sense that the use does not escalate or worsen in anyway, there is complete honesty with one's spouse, and both spouses gladly consent to its use are few and far between. The odds are overwhelmingly against porn use having no harmful effects on anyone.<p>Why does every man who uses porn think he is the one to beat the odds?

...sigh...<p>For those who don't know my story, here it is in a nutshell. My H used porn, secret e-mails, phone sex and other avenues to get his secret sex fixes via OW for as long as we have been together. I think he has stopped, at least for now, but being able to trust him, after so many relapses, is so difficult. I was available for him for sex and I thought we had a good sex life. I was wrong.<p>As for the issue of porn, I think it is the work of Satan. I'm not a bible thumping Christian either but I think porn or other people period have any place in the intimacy of a marital relationship and is simply evil. <p>Porn makes men look like they can have sex with as many women as they want, whenever they want. Women, on the other hand, are insatiable sex machines who are always available to accomodate the man's every request, no matter how bizarre or harmful it may be. The characteristic message of pornography is that women are promiscuous sexual creatures who are subordinate and subserviant to men. <p>Pornography portrays all sexual relationships to be devoid of commitment, monogamy, fidelity or responsibility. In real life, where are the most satisfying and rewarding sexual relatiohsips? In a marriage that values intimacy, commitment, responsibility and fidelity. People who use pornography, I believe, set themselves up for unrealistic expectations that lead to failed relationships. Habitual male users of pornography are at greater risk of becoming sexually callous...I have certainly seen that in my relationship with my spouse. He is sexually callous. An example...a few months ago, when we were in what I know know was a false recovery, he told me I should watch a porn video to get an idea of how to really give a blowjob. What I was doing was stimulating but I just wasn't as "into it" as the porn actresses where. (can I vomit now?)<p>The harms of pornography are attested to by those who have experienced them directly...users and spouses of users of pornography. Look at the numbers of marriage builders that chime in on a thread about porn and how harmful it is to marital relationships. <p>Pornography is not about real human sexuality or real human relationships. Pornography dehumanizes love, honor, dignity, true intimacy and commitment. It doesn't show the consequences the young woman with an unwanted pregnancy, a man getting AIDS, the married man or woman being tempted into a sexual relationship by a member of the opposite sex or the pain that innocent kids feel when their parents are divorcing because of infidelity.<p>Now, for the men who think I am bashing you collectively, that is not how I mean for my post to be taken. Please consider when the last time was that a man came to marriage builders complaining about his wife using porn and how it is hurtful to him. It seems it is a very one sided issue as far as who is the user that is causing the hurt when it comes to porn. Both men and women are hurt by it but the men do not seem to realize how hurtful porn is to their relationships until they see their wife falling in love with someone else or they see their wives withdrawing from them because they are acting callous toward them.<p>watergirl, men who use porn do not stop so easily. I've been in your shoes for too many years. Keep an eye on your husband. I doubt he has stopped for good. I hope I am wrong but I have lived too long in a marriage plagued by the images of porn and talked with too many women who it seems, have been living a life quite parallel to mine.<p>This is a good website for more information on how harmful pornography is to marriage:<p>http://www.pureintimacy.org<p>Drop me a line if you need to ...webmaster@bustedyouonline.com<p>Bluebird

OneDay
Thanks for the correction. I am afraid I was not clear in what I said. I did not mean to say that it was safe to have a relationship with a picture. What I was trying to say that for a man with relationship problems with a real, live wife - a picture is to him much safer. There are no relationship problems with a picture. There is only the false person you create in you mind who never gives you problems. <p>I agree, porn is harmful and destructive. I was raised in a bar and saw the empty shells of people who used porn. <p>I hope I've been a bit clearer. By the way, is your name from OneDay at Shelby Farms in May, 2000? I was there leading a college group with my wife and three older children. If you were there you will understand my full address rjd268