Ok, so teach me how to believe that Mike loves me, that he won't hurt me anymore. How do I believe he's with me because he wants to be and not because the last ow wouldn't leave her h ? How do I believe all that ? I did it before, but i think my believer is worn out. I know for a fact if ow had left her h Mike was going to bring her to our house, do you know how much that knowledge hurts me ???? You know I forgave him and started trusting him again after he left me for the wildebeast, but i'm just not sure this time. I need him to help me belive in him again, to believe in love again. I know i have never been the easiest person in the world to live with, but darn, even a dog gets afraid of you if you kick it enough times.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Deb, I can't help you, need the same thing myself. I keep thinking "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". It's a stupid, worldly thing to have in one's mind when the Bible clearly states forgiveness is to be 70 X 7. But that's just too scary to contemplate, especially since I think I'm already in the triple digits.

Deb - Your situation just sounds incredibly hurtful. How much can you love someone to endure what you've endured? A whole bunch, I guess, and I think that's really to your credit, to want to still stick with a guy after he's treated you like that. Frankly, I think your H Mike deserves the title that your old online handle (Bozo's_Deb) implies!<P>And maybe the time has come for you really to put your foot down and insist on some kind of real commitment on Mike's part, including counseling. Easier said than done, I know. We all seem very free with advice here on MBF, but when it comes to our own situations...well, I've been staying in a bad one too, bascially out of my love for my cheatin' W. Love does seem to make fools of us sometimes, doesn't it?<P>But sometimes, maybe, instead of just being afraid, the kicked dog needs to take a big bite out of the kicker next time? (I wish fighter hadn't gone bye-bye - I think he'd say the same thing.) Regards and blessings, and many wishes for an improvement in your situation.<P>--Wex

You really don't have any choice but to trust him. If you're going to make the marriage work, trust has to be there once again.<P>There's no magic formula ... those you love are those you trust.<P>And keep your eyes OPEN this time!

What he has done is not proof he does not love you or even that you can't trust him.<P>People can learn and grow and change. <P>But to be honest, I'd have the same feelings you are having.<P>Maybe you are again grieving the loss of what you thought you had. It is important to grieve.<P>You can build something better than ever...it takes courage and you have shown that. It is just so hard sometimes.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Deb, I wish I had some words of wisdom for you. I am in the same situation. I think almost everyone here feels this to some degree, but those of us who have gone through this more than once have a harder time. Is Mike doing anything to help you through this? Does he tell you he loves you? Does he do things to show you how special you are to him? If not, then I think it's Mike that needs the educating right now!

Hi Deb, <P>One Super-size Fryin' Pan WHACK coming Mike's way. I agree w/ Betrayed.... he is the one who need to be educated (the hard way ) Send him on in, we will tell him that he needs to not only tell you, but show you, how much he loves you and how very special you are. We might even be able to offer a few suggestions to him.<P>As always, my thoughts & prayers are with you both.<P>Butterfly<P><P>------------------<BR>My favorite quote....<BR>"Hello, this is God. I will be handeling your problems today. I will not need your help, so sit back and have a good day."<BR>

Hi Deb, listen to Maya and FHL. They got it rigth. I know it's hard. But it's the most important choice you have to do. What's the point on working so hard on your marriage if trust is not there? And what will not trusting accomplish, other than making you feel bad? I understand what you're going trough. I had to deal with that myself for a while. But then I realized that if I really wanted my marriage to work, and to be positive I had to start thinking positive. I've talked about trust many times before here. You will never get back the naive trust you once had. And that's O.K., because it's a silly trust, doesn't reflect reality. But you can achieve a different kind of trust, knowing that you're both working together for a common goal : that it doesn't happen again. You might mourn that innocent trust from before, but you'll be better served with the new one. The one that reminds you of what can happen but gives you confidence because now you know and can do your best to prevent it.The one that wakes you up for the fact that marriage doesn't blind you for other people, or shuts your feelings for other people,but also gives you the tools to keep the vulnerability away, because it reminds you to fulfill your H's needs, and to have him fulfill yours.( and when it doesn't communication can help getting that back on track). <BR>Deb, Embrace this new trust. Nothing in life is without a risk, but leaving in fear is themost negative thing we can do to ourselves.<BR>Kat<BR>

I agree with FHL - I am sure your husband is happy that he didn't end up with the bimbo hussy thing....<P>But, I know what your fears are. You are afraid this will happen again, somewhere, sometime, someplace. <P>What is Bozo doing to address his sexual addiction? The kind of affair he had was a little "out" there, ya know. It was a little more sexual addicting in nature than just an OW?<P>Maybe a couple of demons that are still hanging around - waiting for the guard to be down? Maybe this one calls for a prayer from Auntie Pooh. <P>I don't think it is you, I think you aren't getting past what ever it is that you are concerned about - because something is still wrong. <P>Not that Bozo is really doing anything wrong now. But, Bozo maybe makes you feel like an alcoholic working as a bartender????<P>I'll say prayers, Deb. Nothing else seems to be working.

Hey Deb -<P>You do have to learn how to trust, but I have a different view on how you might be able to do this.<P>It seems that you have no trust in yourself!! You need to get that first before you can have it for someone else.<P>You are a wonderful person!!<P>You have thoughts, ideas, feelings, opinions, likes, dislikes and interests above and beyond your H. Are you cultivating them? You must find YOU after all this trauma you've been through. The inner Deb needs to come out from the dark corner she's hiding in waiting for the next blow to her!!<P>She must come into the sunlight and gain some warmth about herself!!! She's been cold and alone for too long. Only by concentrating on doing things for yourself will you be able to help her emerge from that dark place that H's actions have made her feel she must belong.<P>Deb - Yes, there are things that H isn't doing that would help you and prove his love for you - I don't understand it since he lurks and knows what is needed to have a wonderful marriage. But you must stop waiting in that darkness for him to be the one to pull you out - you have to stand up and walk towards the sun yourself!!!!<P>You cannot and will not have any guarantees about anything in life!! You know that!! It is unreasonable to assume that anyone (including H) could give you some!!<P>We all have to grab ahold of our own lives and make of it what we can. You can't wait for H to grab hold of his and hope that you are picked up with it!!<P>Stand and start walking and let him follow you for awhile!!!<P>He loves you and He's there - make him glad he is by allowing yourself some independent happiness - happiness that you can create for yourself and will shine on the whole family. You can do it!!!<P>Hugs and Love Ya,<P>Sheba

I talked to Moke this afternoon, I tried to explain to him how I feel. I asked him to post tomorrow and ask you guys to explain to him how he can help me. I am almost ready to leave, even if it means going to stay with my crazy family members in Alalbama, this is just too hard, and it's not fair to Mike either, I wouldn't want to live with me at this point. Who wants to be with someone who starts crying for no apparent reason, who is misarable, and makes everyone else misarable too. If he does post, please try to help us.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

No Problem Deb!!!<P>Whatever you need - we're here for you.<P>Anything specific or just what we think??<P>Hugs and don't you go anywhere!!<P>Sheba<P>PS - should I threaten to ship myself?<BR> And if so, with or without undies? (Smiley Face) It's up to you!!!<BR>

WITh PLEASE Sheba, I love you dearly, but....<BR> Just tell him what you think, don't be shocked if he doesn't post tho, he still reads here almost daily, but I think it's hard for him to ask for help. Mike is a very unemotional person. His hero growing up was Mr. Spock, and his family are very distant people, I've been married to Mike for 21 years, he has one aunt, I have seen her hug him once, the day his mom died. My family are big huggers, of course most of the time we are actually frisking each other for weapons, but hey... thats just us. <P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Deb-<P>I can kinda relate to your problem - my H gave one of his ex-g/f's a "last chance" opportunity before he proposed to me. I was pretty upset to know I came in second! If she had given him the green light he'd be with her - but it wasn't meant to be and afterall, she's married! <P>I was livid and "ugly" for quite a long time. Wish he never would have told me about it. <P>At some point I realized I just plain had to let it go. Being a b**** and throwing it in his face over and over again wasn't helping me and it wasn't helping him love me any the more for it. I had to decide if I wanted to tear down our love or build it up. He chose me, and I didn't want him to regret that decision. I had to forgive him or stop making two people miserable and leave him.<P>I had a letting go ceremony - wrote down her name and what happened and all my anger and pain and threw it in the fireplace and watched it burn. <P>Hope this helps.<BR>

Sorry to hear that you and your Mike are going through some things again right now Deb .. that's mickey's name too ... : ) Lots of Mike's around i guess huh? Anyways, the best thing that has helped us is just to communicate our feelings to one another, especially writting them down in a letter format called "Dialogue" where you express your feelings towards each other by using colors, images of nature or past experiences that one of you can relate to. Than you sit down and discuss these feelings to one another without criticizing one another or getting upset with why the other feels the way they do. During the letter writing you don't criticize one another either. You just completely Listen-key word here, to one another and how the other feels. If you would like more tips on how this form of dialogue has helped mickey and I .. please email at alliy_tigress@hotmail.com ... this is something that i think just may help you guys too. God bless you both in this time of confusion and helplessness you may be feeling towards one another.<P>------------------<BR>Alliy

I am sorry that you are feeling this way, Deb. But...I too feeling this way. Now whenever H said that he'll be home late cuz one of his co-worker throw a Farewell Party or something like that, my mind is racing whether he is finding a way to meet the OW or someone else again.<P>I am trying not to think about it much about it for my own sake and sanity, I am trying to keep my self as busy as possible whenever he is out with his colleagues, but it's there. it is simply lying there. I don't want to be a nagging and needy wife, but I need re-assurance more than anything at the moment and I let him know about it. He is doing his best in re-assuring me that he will not fool around again this time but the feeling is still hidden somewhere in me. <P>Take your time, Deb, you are doing your best.<P>Love and Hugs,<P>Saskia

Deb,<P>I totally agree with what Sheba said up above. You need to work on you, see you as lovable, and know that Mike would have to be an idiot not to love you. The hardest part in a relationship is taking the way two families communicate and combining them. Mike is more likely than not feeling like he is doing all that he can to tell you that he loves you and you are looking for the way your family communicates their love. Mike grew up in a family that does not show their love, so don't look to Mike to lead the way. If you need a hug, give him one. <P>So, just what are YOU doing to get yourself out of this hole you are in? I know you post here, do you go to counseling, do you exercise regularly, are you in a Bible study with other women right now? Mike had a part in digging the hole you are in, but as unfair as it is, you need to dig yourself out. Come on Deb, you can do it. Just one shovel full at a time. I know, I am the one that you don't want to read but sometimes we need to get a little kick in the butt to get us going. You can't look to Mike to fulfill everything for you, he can't do that--but you can get there yourself!! Build yourself up. Does Mike hurt you verbally? If so, set some boundaries! You take control of your life. Come on, I'm chearing for you! More importantly, I am also praying for you! Trust God.<P>Mary

Deb and Mike:<P>I hope you both are reading????<P>Mike, maybe you need to show Deb that you are addressing your infidelity. Get involved in a support group for SAA, or try to find a referral from your pastor for a spiritual healing. I think those demons can surface again - and while they are being quiet it is the time to attack them. <P>Deb, you are responsible for your own happiness. You really must find a way to get your needs met from within yourself if Mike simply is not capable of doing so. <P>Plan B is for learning just that. If you were without Mike, you would have to learn this. I'm not suggesting you going to Alabama at all. I am suggesting that you learn how to make yourself happy from within, not from outside of yourself. You can do this while with Mike. He more than likely is not going to start being the emotional giving person you crave. <P>I will contiue these prayers for you two. Something good will come out of all of this. Many things already have! You two have changed many lives with your posts.<P>God bless.

Just a real quick post, i'm not feeling well today at all, I know I have issuses with selfesteem that makes me be insecure, I am trying to work on me, and keep myself busy, the thing with mike and i is that while i know there are no guarentees in life, you should be able to trust your spouse, I want to trust him, I need to , BUT well when you are someones second choice it's hard, when you are the second best at least twice it's worse. Mike is Mike and I guess my main job at this point is to decide if I am willing to keep on in a marriage where I am unsure of my standing with him. I know i shouldn't be this way, I don't like it my own self, I guess maybe I'm still trying to get to happy ever after land, i just don't believe it exists anymore. I'm going to lay down now, <P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Mike - Come on, man! How can you not commit yourself totally to a classy woman like Deb who can come up with wonderfully funny comments like:<P>"My family are big huggers, of course most of the time we are actually frisking each other for weapons"<P>(& thanks for the LOL, Deb!) Think about it. Your Deb can be humorous even at a time like this, when she's seriously thinking of leaving. Man, that has got to be worth giving up ANYONE else for!<P>--Wex