I have read the topics in the website & I have gained some answers but things are still at conflict. My husband & I have blended a family a little more than a year ago. We have 4 girls 10 -15. 2 are his & two are mine. We have come a long way from when we first moved in together ...all the kids get along & they get along with each psrent. That is not the problem...the problem is us. We do make separate time for each other but things have fallen apart. There is a trust issue which I have violated...(no infedelity is involved) We are both very independant people.
The issue here is he & I got into a fight & he told me he wants to live alone & wants me out. He has been avoiding me.not much conversation since this & sleeps on the couch for the last 4 days. Things were pretty much fine, before we had this arguement. We had our problems though stemming from trust, that were swept under the rug.
My question is I really don't want to go& I really didn't beloieve him when he said this but his actions are in the withdrawl stage. I can't break through to him & don't really how to approach this avenue. We were supposed to go to Cancun 4/11 & now he said he's not going. Do I just give it time or what??? These kids will lose out if this happens...not only us. He is very angry & is very much type of person who stuffs things inside. I am afraid he will just keep thinking this is best & I won't be able to save this. I have had time to think of things for my own self improvement & want him to know that I am willing to keep this together but how do you reach someone who has stone-walled things all their life?

maria809,
I'm a recovering stone-wall myself. So perhaps I can give you some insight into how things felt for me. For me, my stonewalling was rooted in my inability to share my feelings with my wife.<p>It's quite possible that the reason for your H not wanting to go on the trip and not sleeping with you is because of pain and struggles he's having internally and not being able to share. The stoneface was ALWAYS a protection for me that I used to cover my pain. Stop worrying about the trip. Try to focus on restoring your relationship with your husband. The trip will follow.<p>I tend to be on the more conservative and internal thinker. When I do state my opining or feelings, they are generally a result of significant amount of thought or reflection. I'm likely to understate them. Even when I'm feeling very strongly one way or the other. On the other hand, if i say something, you can bet that it's something that I am feeling is important. It's unlikely that I will say anything that I don't really mean. Lot's of times, I state feelings in the form of thoughts or reasonings. In fact, I'd say I used to have a pretty blurry conceptual understanding between the difference between throughs and feelings. I used to think that my feelings were mostly a confirmation of the rational thoughts I had. I'm describing some of these things in case they seem similar or different that your H.<p>My wife was quite different. She has a much stronger tendancy to vocalize her feelings. It's uncommon for me to wonder what she is thinking or feeling. She tends to overstate things to be sure that she get's her point across. She also will tend to think in terms of solutions. At any point identifying what her current feelings might be. Then, as further information might become available, she may factor this in as well. She tends to translate things she hears into her own experience and relate it to something she has heard or done.<p>I believe these differences are strongly impacted by our childhood experiences. Our families are very different in these regards as well.<p>Getting back to stonewalling... I found it very difficult to express my feelings with my wife.
This was true of good feelings and particularly true of bad ones. Because of these difficulties, I began to share less and less. The lack of sharing of good feelings were simply lost oppertunities. The lack of shaing of bad feelings became bottled up and cause lots of resentment to grow. I won't go into the terrible mess it all caused. The long and short is that it was largely a result of my inability to share my feelings.<p>I'd like to share with you some of the feelings I would have when sharing with my wife to see if any of them could sound familiar and might be happening for your husband...<p>None of this is meant, in any way, to imply that you are doing any of these things. I'm simply trying to share with you my perspective as a stoneface to help you reach him.<p>When I would share good experiences with my wife, she would sometimes express her desire to have shared them with me. 'Next time, I want to come with you.' While the desire to experience things together is not bad, if it deminishes or threatens the good feeling it my make the sharing of it undesirable. There were a lot of times when I would think, 'why can't this be good enough without her needing to change it'. It felt very much like I shouldn't have fun without her. Or that she was jealous of this fun. I wished she would have simply been able to be happy that I had a nice experience.<p>Sometimes when I shared good experiences she would follow up with a similar good experience that she had that was similar. 'One upping' someone's story isn't the best way of makeing them feel good about it. Remember that when he's telling you something that happened, he may believe he's telling you how he felt about it. The feeling/facts confusion thing, like me.<p>Sharing bad feelings is even harder. Especially when the are about your relationship. They might feel like criticism or hatred. It may be hard for you to believe that he loves you when he feels badly about something you did. He may be terribly afraid to tell you anything bad. He may be trying to tell you and you may not be hearing him. He may be trying to tell feelings by saying facts or occurences instead of feelings (feeling/fact confusion). Any of these feeling on your part may cause him to close up.<p>The biggest breakthrough for me was realizing that feelings are not right or wrong. We can disagree on facts and what to do. But the core feelings are never wrong or right. They are a result of our perspective. The feelings will change when our perspectives change. So, If you want someone to feel differently, you have to alter their perspective by changing yourself or factors around them, or providing some insight that enables them to see things differently. In my experience, the first two can work very well, the third hardly ever happens. It's unfortunate that we generally opt for number three as a first course of action.<p>One thing that makes bad feelings hard to share for me is when they were invalidated. When I am given reasons why the feelings were somehow inaccurate. They are feelings, feelings are always ok. Bad feelings need an especially large amount of validation.<p>Another thing that makes bad feelings hard to share for me was an immediate jump to solutions without validation, and understanding of the bad feeling. Solutions alone are fine if no hurt has yet occured. Heal the pain first, then solve the problem.<p>Words of compassion always get through. They are the thing that melted the stone for me. Independance is a breedinground for stone walls. Interdependance helps combat the seperation. Try to look at the stonewalling as a symptom of the problem he is having communicating his feelings.<p>Accept and acknowlege small steps in sharing without expressing the desire for more and better. This is important. Make him feel successful in sharing and he will want to do more of it.<p>Who knows, if you're like my wife, at somepoint you may regret getting it started [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

saythewords...<p>Hon, is that you???<p>Honestly, you sound so much like my H in so many ways. Thanks for your post...seeing the way you explained some things gave me a good perspective.<p>Ya wouldn't want to repost most of this discourse on "stonewalling" on the EN borad, wouldja? There's several folks I know there that I suspect would be interested as well.<p>Thanks again.<p>Kathi

saythewords.....
I want to thank you for the insight that you offered.You hit the nail on the head and you confirmed some things that I had been thinking..it's just better to hear them from somebody else instead of me guessing that this is the reason why things are said or done.
All this hit home & was said in a time & way I needed to hear. I'm not worried about our trip....at this point it would only be a bandaide for the relationship.If we went on it before resolving things instead of going because we had togo....it would be back to where we where when we left.
My main concern is to get through this. It gets very hard to deal with negagtive responses when a person puts forth effort to reconceil. But I know everybody works things out in their own way & time if given the chance. Your statement about acts of compassion was what I have been trying to practice these last few days while respecting his space to be angry or just be to himself. Like I said we are 2 independant people who came together to live in the same house a little over a year. I had been a single parent for 8 years & he lived by himself for 8( got custody of his 2 girls 14 mos. ago) So here is a man that was decended upon by 5 females.I realize all this but sometimes I think is this an excuse for the rudeness.
I am very much your wife it sounds like.....I talk, think & try to commminicate tilll the problem is soved. My phylosophy is things don't go away or take care of themselves. I also realize someone ele isn't responsible for your happiness & realizing someone else is also not the cause of your suffering, at least not the past suffering. ut unfortunately that always tends to surface along with the currnet problem.
Learning to live together the imperfect people that we are is probably the hardest thing 2 peoplecan do & do it right.It is easier to run than to face the beast.
IOn the last week I have had to look at the whole picture & I have things to change if this is going to go where I want it to go. And I feel like I must do it wisely or it will fall apart just now. Because unfortunately he is not going to change if he is "comfortable" with sleeping on the couch & talking only when he has to. In a way it is a power "dance" What I have to figure out is how to get from point A to point B & it seems like it's not going to hapen when I want it to happen. I just take it day by day. After all if he didn't love me then he wouldn't have been hurt.Like I said before the relationship was not bad at all......not the major issues that affect blended families,,,,the only person who "wants me to move out" is him.
I want to thank you. again for the very smart & open insight. It couldn't have come at a better time. It helps the heart.I wish you & your wife all the luck in the world. I realize that I have my shortcomings to.....and lipservice at this point won't change things (they can help) but actions are the true thing that is needed. I just hope we have the time. Thank you again......

Maria, Kam,
It's so hard to get a perspective on someone when they are putting out so few signals. What's even harder to understand is that, the stonewaller is manytimes in the same relationship to the problems as you are. They are struggling to cope with overwhelming feelings and the only mechanism they have is to this with is 'being strong'. This coping mechanism not only isolates the spouse from the stonewaller, but also leaves the stonewaller in a very lonely place. For me, I had retreated to that place because of pain and hurts that I couldn't share with my wife. It hurt me so much to think about or talk about them that instead, i retreated into myself. Everytime i would reach outside and try to share, it would hurt. Either because of fighting, or because the pain or dissapointment I shared were painfull for my wife. Quite literally, the least painfull place was in isolation. There was really no choice involved. I look back and think of it more like a scared rabbit in a hole. There was no concept in my mind of how things could get better. Don't get me wrong, I was no falling apart mess of a person. I was fully functional in my job and as a father to my kids. But my relationship with my wife was completely dry. From the outside it would have seemed that I was just some insensitive [censored]. But inside, I was in a whole lot of pain.
I now joke about it with my wife sometimes and tell her that I was emotionally constipated. To the critical level. In reality, we both were. He defense mechanism was action, mine was inaction.
It helped me a lot when I began to understand the difference between feelings and facts. To accept them independantly and not always have to figure out the why's of a feeling. On some days, just to feel sad is enough. Having to understand why, and what had to change, and whether or not things were justified simply invalidated the feelings. We are much much more creatures of feelings than of thought. When it get's right down to our hearts anyhow. It's far less painfull to have your thoughts and ideas criticized than it is to have your feelings not accepted. For me anyhow.<p>I would hide behind thoughts and reasonings when I could no longer cope with my feelings. I would substitute principles for satisfaction in my life. I would be the steady one when everything else was too chaotic. But steady meant not rocking the boat and therefore, not bringing up any new issues.<p>Power dances, and i very much understand what you mean, are some of the worst because they are completely based on reason and facts. Let them go. Ask your husband how he is feeling and resist the urge to probe into why he is feeling that way. That path leads to pain. Don't even ask him what you can do to help. Simply listen and hear and accept how he is feeling. That's a hard thing to do, especially when he's feeling bad. His difficulty is probably not with the causes of the feeling. If he is like me, the difficulty comes in handling the feeling. I can solve any problem. The last thing I wanted or needed were solutions. What is was sorely lacking was acceptance and emotional support to process those feelings.<p>I hope this helps. I know how confusing this can be. I'll try to post more later tonight. Good luck. It's quite possible that your husband only want's the bad feelings to leave and that the only way he see's this happening is for you to leave. That's how I felt sometimes.<p>Another thing that happened with me, when I finally started to try to 'say the words' they would sometimes come out like a freight train. It's possible that your husbands expression of wanting you to leave is just the beginning of him trying to get the feeling out. I was terrible at expressing them at first. It's taken me a long time to learn to put words around them. Try to keep in mind that the real goal it for him to more freely express himself. Treat the words as secondary. Yes listen and take them to heart, but if they hurt or are offensive try to rememver that they are being pushed by a lot of stuff below the surface. I know that this is very very very hard to keep in mind. My wife had to hear things that were very painful for her to hear. Just to sit and listen. It was so hard for her. But I cannot tell you how much it meant to me. How much I love her for helping me during that time.<p>Blessings and Peace.<p>[ March 19, 2002: Message edited by: saythewords ]</p>

Kam,
Lot's of men have a tendancy to keep feelings inside. We've been conditioned to do this from a very young age. It's what made us crash our toy trucks and cars into walls. And punch each other instead of laughing or crying. I think it starts out as a power thing, the leader of the heard instinct. It doesn't take to many humiliations to learn to hide your hurt and pain. I always try to keep that in mind when I encounter my kids emotions. Help them learn how to get it out in a non-destructive way, as opposed to stopping the 'flow'.<p>When I was a kid, and you felt affection or anger for a friend, you'd just sock him on the sholder. You could tell by how they punched you whether they were mad or not. Pretty much leaves you optionless as you grow older.<p>I'm not sure how to post this stuff to another area. If you know how to do it, feel free to share it with anyone you think might be interested.<p>Gotta get back to my chores,
Blessings and Peace.

I think Saythewords speaks for a lot of us repressed men! Ditto to most of those comments from me. I'd only add that while my wife's tenderness definitely reached me, it might not have been enough to break through to me initially. The thing that got me to really reconsider separation was being asked if I had really thought through all the implications for everybody concerned and, if not, wasn't it worth taking some time to think things through and make sure I wasn't making a mistake. Eventually, I came to appreciate feelings, but that took me the better part of year of intense self-learning. In the short-run, it was the appeal to my logic that I couldn't ignore. If your H is like "us", you might incorporate some "tender loving logic" into your appeal.

Thanks to all of you that have taken the time to post to this. It all has been a help. I see my H in alot of this. I can understand why he is the way he is.
We had a discussion last night about the way things were & he actually opend up some last night. I approached in a very non-threatening way. But he still says he wants to live alone. He says he is tired of trusting someone . I can see his point very clearly.Like I had said there were no drugs or affairs. I had lied to him about the bills. It happened on 3 occasions,( we keep our money separate) I paid some bills late & told him that I had paid them. The other issue was I had worked alot.( I'm a nurse & can pick up extra shifts)To keep away from his moods & sometimes the kids would drive me crazy.
I tried to "appeal" to him & leave the ball in his court... let me try to prove that this won't happen again( I had said it before) till the end of the school year. He was not willing. He said he was done with someone that shattered his trust. He said he was done with women that are messed up.
He had a bad 1st & 2nd marriage. They had run around on him. I told him that I was not his past & he needs to take that into consideration. He told me he had said before(in his own way) that he didn't want it to happen. This was actually the first time that we had talked like this.
He again left some mixed messages but I have heard them all loud & clear. I am still confused. He said we can still be friends after this is all over & he doesn't hate me.( 3 days before all this we were talking about buying carpet & sending the kids to camp) He said he will give me till the end of the school year.( That is 13 weeks away)How can someone want a relationship to end but can wait 13 weeks?????To me this tells me he will wait & see what I do. I left the door open for alot of things & didn't corner him into saying things that required a yes or no answer but pretty much left it up to him to say what he needed to say.
I realize I have time to "earn" his trust but I am afraid it's too late. I am also wondering if he is depressed because he does go into these moods every couple of months & also he had a pattern to it.
This may seem like a little matter ...but really it isn't. He is a very good man & good parent. Not an outwardly affectionate person...not even to his kids. I have laid all my cards out on the table & taken a good look at what do I want & what can I put up with. What is best for all concerned here. That is only fair to us both. I told him that. We are not in this for money or the fear of not being able to live alone. I have violated his trust as did his past experiances in life do the same so I realize that this is not going to be easy. I told him that I realize that if we do decide to talk to us it doesn't mean that it was hunky dorie & it never happened. He said something that surprised me...."thank you" I know he is afraid of a re[eat happening if he tries to breakdown his walls.Understandably so.
What I am up against is a tough one. I have limited time to try to restore something that I took away. In my heart I think it can be done but it will be slow & take time ....his time. I just hope it can be done. I have never met anyone like this man & I do love him with all my heart. But he is so cold ....& spending alot of energy being cold. We have spoken about the fact that there are kids with relationships with each other. He said they will be fine ...they are tough. (More coldness)
Does this sound like an impossible thing? Am I just wishing for someone to think the way I want them to think or does this make any sense? The confusing part is that to the people that know what is going on....have all said this doesn't make sense & that htye were shocked.
I consider myself an intelligent women.....but not so strong when it comes to matters of the heart.I had told him that I am not going to give up & that I love him & NEVER even meant to hurt him. I have worked very hard to make this family work( blending a family is the hardest thing I have ever done)I told him alot of things from my heart & also told him what done I knew wasn't right. But it still doesn't matter. I really didn't expect him to get overjoyed last night > I just had to state these things & tell him how I felt.
I think in time a person SHOULD get tired of being angry but some people can walk around angry ...and get so wrapped up in their anger they can't see past it.
Sorry I rambled on about all this...I'm just sick over the whole thing this was never meant to have happened. I have faced the facts of what I had did & how it affected him I know alot of relationships have gone through alot worse & been rebuilt, but that has nothing to do with me & him.I gave up alot to be with him & put my children into this. ( He got his kids through emergency custody)I told im I thought abut this carefully before I did this which he is aware of. Whether he chooses to acknowledge anything that was said is his choice. I know that anyone that spends that much time to themself does alot of thinking, maybe too much.
At this point I plan to leave the matter well enough alone. I said what I had to say & that was all I can do. The rest is to be left to a course in time & God. I realize this man may have issues that I cannot change even by my actions. That hurts but it is reality. He said 3 strikes your out. Oh well....I just need to look at this in a realistic sort of way..and in the meantime follow through with what I had told him & PRAY!!!!
Thanks guys for your help & time. It has helped me get to this point. It is easier to give up than work it through but thatis what I will try to do.<p> to)

WOW
Thanks Maria for sharing your situation, i hope the guys have given you as much insight as they have for me.
Stonewalling is a concept that i can completely relate to. My husband at times seemed to be completely devoid of any emotion. But saythe words, kam and R cane, you have opened things up for me in a different light. To see your persepective on the hows and whys of stonewalling has made me re-assess the way i am doing things with my husband.
I have tried for so very long to get him to talk, to open up about his feelings, about why we are having so many serious problems within our marriage. No matter how hard i try (not push, i know that doesn't work), he seems to be able to talk for a short time, yet reverts back to hiding his feelings.
I try to listen and listen only to how he feels. I also try to affirm and validate his feelings, good and bad. But once we get past the initial conversation all the hard yakka seems to be lost.
H and i have been separated 3 times and he is presently living away from me and our two boys. It has always been his decision to leave, yet he is coming over all the time to visit us. His free time is spent here at my home, with our children. This happens every time he leaves.
Emotionally i have such a hard time dealing with the after effects of him walking away from our M. Days of crying, trying to function to keep the kids as "stable" as possible. Then when hubby decideds he can't handle anymore of his "alone" time, he comes back around.
That is when i stonewall- - - im sure i stonewall as a reaction to his coming and going, because normally i am very open and honest about the way i feel. I guess i am a product of the open family environment i came from. On the other hand, my H is a product of his environment, he spent alot of time alone as a child, emotionally and verbally abused by a father who was an alcoholic and not nurtured in any way by his mother, who is also a stonewaller.
It is hard for me at this point in our M crisis to open up to him about how i feel. Im scared he will "go again". Yet deep inside, i know i need to confront my fears with him.
Day to day i pray for some kind of resolution to our situation, i guess for me, after years of counselling (of which he pulls out of every time) i can only pray that God sheds so`me light on my situation and touches hubby in a special way.
I don't want to lose my family permanantly.
Steph