For the past two and 1/2 years, my wife has decided that sex is not important. Granted, I am reestablishing relations due to a daughter who has just recently moved out of our bed at age 9. Yep, you guessed it, she has been in our bed ofr 8 years. Kinda put a damper on our sex life. Since trying to get things going, I think she has begun peri-menapause. I have raged and insulted her every six or so weeks due to lack of communication about our lack of sex. I then apologize and am a good boy for the next few weeks, then I start to resent and ignore her--until the blowup. I am currently sleeping in the guest room--about 6 months. She is unresponsive and refuses to discuss. Every morning she is chipper and nice to me. She seems to have put our kids and work as her priority. The more I ask for talk or sex, the more she avoids me. I am now done raging and drifting toward a separation. Her response was "this is premature",,,I think 2 1/2 years of sparatic sex--on her time schedule. My anticipation for sex has turned into resentment. Forget about counceling,,,she is a councelor and doesn't think it would help us. Meanwhile, months have turned into years. Her reason seems to always relate to the most recent argument (rage). Too busy for talk and kiss and make up....I love her, but see myself ready to move out. Two kids who love me a lot... Any advise in breaking this dead end?

Man, I feel your frustration. W is a counselor? Well, even we counselors have our problems, it is probably what got us into counseling - trying to find out who we are and why. Was your W sexually abused as a child or teenager? Avoidence of sex is a very common symptom of abuse. Was your daughter in bed so long because your W wanted it this way? If so, that can be a method of avoidence. I don't know what to say except I am so sorry for you.

Bout to Give Up,
Your wife sounds very much like me. Intimacy has been a terrible struggle for me much of my married life. I worked very hard praying and discussing this with numerous counselors and friends in church leadership over the years.
What finally really helped me resolve the problem, though I can still sometimes struggle, was learning to trust men again. I had not been abused in the sense of sexually abused, but the men in my life crossed lines they never should have while I was young. Inappropriate comments, an isolated grab or touch by different authority figures throughout my adolescence and teen years. That combined with a distant, emotionally unavailable father-abandonment with him home every night.
I would review her relationships with the male gender. If men only knew how deeply they were cutting into young women's lives when they so selfishly take advantage.
I love my husband dearly, I also know I hurt him many times over but at the same time was trying to the best of my ability in my condition. It wasn't purposeful. I remember sobbing one night as we made love, I hurt for both of us.
It took healing of my trust issues to restore me.
It is torture to love someone so much and not be able to bring yourself to give yourself physically.
The child between you and her is a classic. If trust is indeed part of the problem, it can be resolved. Like anything else, it takes work and patience. But is well worth it.
Please try to understand her. Talk to her. See if she is willing to find out what is going on with her. Show her this post? I am so sorry for your and her pain. Try not to abandon her, this may very well be part of the problem. What kind of counselor is she?

Hello, I am the boring back to basics guy. I discovered this site after reading one of Dr Harleys books. And ever since I read posts like yours of pain and panic that comes of not knowing there is a problem and not understanding, it let alone know how to fix it. So READ THE BOOKS! "Love Busters" teaches us about our bad habbits that destroy romantic love and how to eliminate them from our relationships. "His Needs Her Needs" teach us how to meet each others needs and to build up romantic love. I recomend you order the books (online here or amazon) and until they come in read "the basics" until they come in. There is lots of other good materiel here but get the books, read them (I recomend LB first), both of you..
You have had some good replys and this is an exalent topic, please keep posting and working on this. You say your W is a councelor, what type of counceling does she do? There is the old addage that a mechanics car never runs right and a plumbers faucets always drip, I think I hear a similar thing here. But more than that there is obviously something too painfull to deal with here, and unless I miss my guess you need to back up and get proffesional help to aproach this in a loving way instead of wearing the mask of rightous indignation.It is always good practice for a counceler to never try to councel their families and friends, but it is always an atractive temptation. Dont even hesitate to ask her to contact a peer that will agree to take her case. If she balks,,,,hmmmm,,,, well maybe you need to find a councelor and start from your end. But in the name of God do so in love. If you ever are tempted to " raged and insulted her every six or so weeks due to lack of communication about our lack of sex." again you should pluck out your tounge! And you have no leg to stand on if you wish to assume a "Holier than thou" posture. You are guilty as sin of "Love Busters"(bad habits that destroy romantic love), I am a man that has been celibate for 3 months now trying to repair damage that I had a hand in in my marriage so I can speak from experience. You sound like I did when the fertilizer first hit the fan in my life, feeling like it was all her fault, even if it was (and it never is) you would be a fool to say so, SO DONT!
Also while you are waiting for the books download the printer friendly versions of "Love Busters Survey" or is it questionaire? Any way and the printfriendly version of "emotional needs survey" and both of you fill them out. These will give you a clue to your problems.
Marriage is one place where ignorance is not bliss.
May God be with you both.<p>[ May 04, 2002: Message edited by: dsimmons78025 ]</p>

Thanks to all for your insights. You are correct to advise cool, calm, etc. But it is very difficult. The non-communication is always precipitated with discounting remarks about my feelings and some stinging words--most of which I probably deserve. Mr rages are pretty strong and verbally abusive(I never did this before.) I do think her family is part of the problem. She is the blond neice in the "munsters"--She does not fit the picture. She recently told me about her co workers negative actions toward her. My kids even recognize that her controlling nature is worsening. This could be menapause? I have been on a weight loss and weight lifting regiment for two years. I look great. She, on the other hand has gained weight. I could care less. Maybe this is part of it. Yesterday she asked me for the first time in 2 years to back off, forget, start over, get a hobby, stop analyinsing, just be nice to her. Essentially, pretend nothing happened for the past two years. Then she sort of, kind of, innitiated sex...It was good for me and I think for her. Today, she acts as if nothing is wrong. Granted, she is a strong willed person, but I must admit, I am totally confused as to her behavior. I am crossing my fingers. Maybe, we have turned a corner. Of course, I went to a hotel for a night the previous week...maybe this started her thinking? I am currently playing dumb. She does make sure she is flanked by the kids most of the time. Hard to get adult conversation going (another rage factor/tigger). My kids adore me. Really. And they try hard not to take sides. That they even hear or are aware of our troubles pisses me off. And I blame wifey dearest. I am once again putting my pride and feelings aside in hopes that the wife wakes up soon. My resentment is just under the surface. Usually I can forgive and forget easily--its just smart. But given the amount of time elapsed and being shut down, and ignored/neglected, it is very hard for me.

Dont have these conversations at home. Take her out of the environment where the kids may hear and be used as manipulative tools.<p>Tell her that you are not willing to be married to someone who does not meet your sexual needs and is not willing to look at the reasons/roadblocks to why this is so.

Bout to Give Up,<p>There is some great advice here. I don't know if you've already tried this but I am a woman and this really helps put me in the MOOD.<p>Sex and romance starts in the brain for us. Here are some examples:<p>When my husband cooks pancakes for the kids and I (he NEVER cooks)<p>When he does the dishes<p>When he does the laundry for me<p>When he compliments me<p>When he massages my back<p>When he takes the kids out to play ball and gives me some free time<p>Makes time for a date (movies, go for coffee, meet for lunch, etc.)<p>When he does these things without expecting anything in return, it motivates me to do the same for him. But here's the beauty - I have more ENERGY for sex. I know we're ALL busy these days in this society and I am the mother of 3 kids under 6 and I'm very active. So at 9pm I'm usually falling asleep on the couch. When he helps me out I simply have more energy and I DESIRE him. He'll buy me flowers sometimes and leave me little love notes around the house. I try to do the same for him. These little things in and of themselves are not much. But the sum total of these little things over time are HUGE. I guess it's about making deposits in your love bank (have you read any of the books yet?)<p>My marriage almost ended this winter. And we've just started to work things out. I don't know if you're doing these things already and I hope this helps you out a bit. Good luck.

It just struck me as funny-<p>I just read my reply to you and then I read my signature. Are you sure you want to take advice from us whose marriages are so screwed up? Ha ha. Good luck.

Your best bet for changing this dynamic in your M is to read Passionate Marriage or Constructing the Sexual Crucible by David Schnarch. His Sexual Crucible approach combines marital and sex therapy. You may even want to take advantage of the weekends and retreats offered: www.passionatemarriage.com<p>The bottom line is that raging and belittling WILL NOT WORK and will only make the problem worse. I am an extremely sexual person, and I DESPERATELY wanted to have sex (and your W may, too, underneath what she's saying to defend herself or fend off your attacks), but my H was treating me like an insect beneath his contempt, so I had no desire for sex with him.<p>I would have preferred to have sex with a complete stranger than with him. I'm sure I could find a stranger who would at least be kind to me and treat me like I deserved to exist. There is nothing desirable about someone who rages at you and treats you like sh**. LBs KILL desire.<p>So, step 1 is eliminate LBs from all interactions with your W. Step 2 is remember a time when you WERE having enjoyable sex together. What were YOU doing? How were you interacting with her? Think of times when she desired you. What were you doing just before that?<p>Keep track for a week of how many compliments you give your W compared to how many LBs. I did keep track for 2 years, and during that time, only ONE thing came out of his mouth that had any resemblance to a compliment. To this day, it still amazes me that HE had an A and not me.<p>Have you read Give & Take? That is also an excellent book detailing negotiation. The Divorce Remedy can help you figure out what works and what doesn't. From now on, commit yourself to thoughtful requests rather than selfish demands. Break down what you want into action words to use when you make your request. Instead of, "We NEVER have sex!!!!", try, "How would you feel about sharing a 10-second kiss with me?"<p>If there was another woman in your life you wanted to have sex with, you obviously would not utilize the behaviors you've been pursuing with your W. Somehow, my H managed to pull out of his a$$ for the OW what I had been asking for for a decade--no wonder she wanted to have sex with him!!! It isn't too difficult to imagine what would have happened to our sex life if he had pulled all that out for me instead.<p>So, it cannot hurt to act as if your W is the OW. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ May 18, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>