Hello.<p>My husband, Charlie and I have been married 9 months and while we have been having struggles these 9 months, we hit our first huge hurdle this past couple of weeks. And now he is thinking of leaving me. He says he can't take the fights anymore.<p>I need to talk to someone because I am about to burst, and I can't really talk about this to my family. I seriously don't know what to do. I have tried to talk about this to Charlie, but theres not much he can do...he is in a commitment to the Methodist church (He is a pastor for the Methodist church). I feel right now that I am holding back an unbearable sadnness and tears that have not been released in order to support the man I married.<p>Charlie is fresh out of Seminary and has gotten placed in his first church a couple of weeks ago. Long before he graduated, I told Charlie that I wanted to go to Purdue to pursue my masters, so he was in contact with the Methodist conference to ask to get appointed a church. About 5 months ago I told him that I wanted him to let the Indiana conference know that we wanted to be in the Lafayette district. When I said Lafayette, I meant the city of Lafayette. I am a city girl...I grew up in the suburbs of the city. Well a couple of weeks ago the district superintendent called and told him that he had been appointed a church in a small rural town called Brook. I did some research on the internet and found out that Brook wasn't anywhere near Lafayette, but rather an hour away. I asked Charlie why we were placed so far away from Lafayette district and he told me that we weren't, that we were placed in it. Well, I come to find out that the Lafayette District is not just the city of Lafayette, like how the normal world is. I had thought when I said Lafayette District I was being specific enough that I wanted to be in Lafayette. However, in Methodist language, Lafayette district means more than that city. It is much bigger than that, and includes other towns, including small secluded farm towns. I tried to keep my hopes up that it couldn't be that bad if it was only an hour from Lafayette. <p>However, this past weekend was rough, to say the least. We went up to Brook this weekend to meet the church and see the parsonage. It was a total shock for me---total CULTURE shock, and my worst nightmares came true. It is a very small farm town....the people in this town make a living growing crops....the community is very close...too close for comfort for me. There are 200 memebers of the church, with only 100 attending, and only 12 youth that go to Sunday school. Very different from all the churches I went to. Needless to say, I didn't feel very comfortable in the environment I was in on Saturday. I was way out of my comfort zone. The area is very secluded..kinda reminds me of an oasis. And the worst part is there is no one there my age. I literally want to cry. I am going up there to be with Charlie and support him in his career, but me personally, I do not like the area that we will be moving too. I don't want to live there!!! Charlie on the other hand likes it--he grew up in a small farm town. <p>Heres the worst part: I just found out not too long ago that Charlie hated being in the city when he came to Ohio. That he liked being in that kind of environment-- a small farm town. I feel cheated. And I can't believe Charlie did not tell me this before we got married. I made it clear to Charlie BEFORE we got married that I did not want to live in a small farm town. And now I found out that this is his ideal area to live. I feel cheated and hurt and betrayed.<p>Most importantly, this is ripping the two of us apart. And I don't know who to turn to for help....I tried asking Charlie for a compromise....for us to find a place to live in Lafayette, and have him commute into the church. But he does not want to do this. He said if we do that it would not make it easy for him to minister to the people in that town.<p>What do I do? I am so lost, and there is a huge flood of tears that is stored up inside of me. Like I said, I have tried to talk to him, but he feels that he can not change where we are going or move to another area, because we have three weeks till we move. It is either come or don't go with him. <p>I'm so sad.

Hi Carebear--<p>I am glad you found this site. You and Charlie have got a lot to work out...being honest about each one's needs and wants is key. Have you read the Basic Concepts here? If not, please do...they offer a good background of MB principles (click on "Concepts Link" above).<p>I respect greatly the difficulty of being a pastor's wife/husband...and to step into those shoes as a newlywed must be so hard!!! Our last minister was an older man, and he spoke once with me about how hard he knew it had been for his wife at times. I also talked with her enough to know she felt called to support him in his work for God, even though it did require some sacrifices at times that were hard for her. <p>I am a city girl too, by the way...and I am a Methodist, but I do not know a lot about the way ministers are placed...my impression is that while they can state preferences, the conference can send them anywhere they are needed...is that correct? How much flexibility does Charlie actually have? Any, or is this a "done deal"?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>There are 200 memebers of the church, with only 100 attending, and only 12 youth that go to Sunday school. Very different from all the churches I went to. Needless to say, I didn't feel very comfortable in the environment I was in on Saturday. I was way out of my comfort zone. The area is very secluded..kinda reminds me of an oasis. And the worst part is there is no one there my age. <hr></blockquote><p>Despite being in a large city (Dallas), this doesn't sound so different from my church. We have about 400 on the rolls, but only about 100 attending, relatively few children and youth, and lots of older people. We have found that the community is very caring, and very worth being a part of. And, recently our new minister (a woman) has helped bring in new folks...I like to think my H and I have been able to help in the process of making younger couples who visit feel more at home, and help them get involved in the church. <p>Try to keep an open mind...it may be out of your comfort zone, but sometimes that's not a bad thing. People don't tend to grow when in their comfort zone, but only when they step out of it!<p>Kathi

Kathi,<p>Thanks for your response. Btw...my name is Carrie.<p>Yes, Charlie and I have both read the basic concepts and we have both books that Dr. Harley has written. We are working on His Needs, Her Needs right now. But I am not sure where living in a Farm versus city would fall into a need?<p>Specifically, we have identified that he has a need for affirmation. I've tried affirming him by letting him know I think he will make a great pastor, and that he has a huge heart for others. The problem is Charlie doesn't think I am supporting him (or in other words, affirming him) or what his calling is because I don't want to live in that type of town. My family is a very private family and we don't not share things easily unless trust has been established. I have never grown up in a close knit community. This town is a very close knit community.<p>I on the other hand have a great need for being understood and being listened to. Charlie made me a threat---or an ultimatum--either go with me to Brook or we separate. There was no trying to understand about how I did not grow up in an area like that...you can't expect white to go to black without giving them a chance to have an in between can you? But every time I tell him why I don't want to go, he just shakes his head and says you have gotten to be too much to handle and he walks away. It breaks my heart every time he does that. I still don't know why he won't compromise--and move closer to the city. I don't understand why we BOTH can't have our needs met. Just because I don't want to live in that kind of town doesn't mean I don't support him, in my eyes. I know it means a lot to him to be placed in his first church, and I am happy for him. He's waited long and hard for this.<p>But it frustrates me to know that he wants to live in a small town. I had been totally honest with him before we got married and I told him that I could not live in a small farm town. I told him I feel betrayed and lied to that he never told me that he wanted to be in a small town for the rest of his life. I mean, I did tell him I could not live in a small town. Why would he think he could change me into wanting to live in one?<p>Nothing can be changed now...the problem is, I was not raised Methodist. So I do not know Methodist language in terms of districts. This whole problem came out due to miscommunication. When I said Lafayette district, I meant in Lafayette. What the District Superintendent heard was anywhere in the area that is labeled Lafayette District, which includes small towns. They heard that and 2 weeks ago put us in this church. Then this past Sunday after we saw them, they made an announcement to the church that we were coming. So they are all expecting us to come and be there. To not come now would not only hurt the community (they would be disappointed and they also would have not have a pastor for that church because the other pastor has already been assigned another church), but if Charlie were to also pull out now, he would be blacknamed for pulling out on them so late. I understand all this, and so again, I can respect that. What I can't understand is why we have to live in the city...why he can't commute.<p>More than anything, I am angry at this ultimatum of you come with me or we separate. What happened to him telling me that he didn't believe in divorce?<p>Btw, to top all of this, 3 months after we got married, my mother died of cancer. Needless to say, these past months since her death has not been easy on me (or my family). Familiarity and who she taught and raised me to be is even more important to me now than before. But because of the grief that has come on so early on in our marriage, Charlie and I have not only had the rough year of being newlyweds, but have also had to deal with this loss. I have felt major guilt of spending time dating Charlie while she was sick, instead of being with her, and so with this threat of you come with me or we separate, I feel even more guilt that I made a huge mistake of being with Charlie instead of my mom. (Does this make sense?)<p>I'm so sad.

Forgive me, but I do not have time to read your whole post right now, so I did a 20-second skim. The part of the Basic Concepts I think might help you guys most is the part on POJA. I'll post a link to some more info on that.<p>In my quick skim, I did catch that your mother died shortly after your marriage. I'm sure you realize that you guys are dealing with sevearl huges life-stresses in marriage, death of family, new job, relocation...honestly, I don't think you'd be human if you weren't having trouble dealing with all this!

Carrie--<p>Here's the link I mentioned...<p>www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=reply&f=8&t=008126<p>Sorry I'm short on time....will pop back later!<p>Kathi

Kathi.<p>I read the policy and passed it onto my husband to read. The problem with this policy is that if we do nothing, he gets in trouble with the Bishop and the Cabinet for not going to Indiana, and if we go, then I am not unamiously agreeing on wanting to live in a small town.<p>Carrie

Kathi,<p>My husband read the POJA (I sent it to him via email). This was my husband's reply to the Policy of Joint Agreement:<p>But where does the Methodist Church come into play? This is a very important aspect that cannot be ignored. I am under the appointment of a bishop. Where the bishop says to go, I must go, even if you dont like it. As long as I am under this system, that is the way it is. Where does that fit into this, because you will most likely rarely enthusiastically agree to the move, regardless of where the move is. So what do we do? I want to help you. I want to have an enthusiasitc agreement, but my hands are tied now. The bishop has appointed and I must go. And it is totally unfair to the church and to the district and to the conference for us to back out now. If I do not act in the next couple days, it will harm other people - many other people. Time has run out!!!! And we are still at the barganing table. What does joint agreement say where there is no more time to discuss? What happens then? When is there action in this agreement, for it is action that is now required by the local church and district and conference and overall church. Where does this all fit into this policy?????????????<p>Any suggestions?
Carrie

No, as it stands now, if you do nothing, you go to the new appt...that's the "status quo," so that is what will happen if you "do nothing."<p>POJA is hard to learn and use well, and I am no expert. But I think where POJA can be helpful to you guys is to start using it now for smaller, everyday decisions...maybe even whether he can commute or not to his new appt...that's a good example of brainstorming possibilities that might be acceptable to both...maybe there are others??? Then, next time you have a move coming up, I think you get to state some requests or preferences, and maybe you can use it together to decide on what preferences to state.<p>Meanwhile, I would urge you to consider your role as the spouse of a pastor as a calling in itself. I kinda get the feeling that you guys did not discuss this very challenging role a lot before you married, and that you need to talk a bit more about what each of you expect and want? Truly, it is not a role I'd be good at, so I am not trying to "preach"....<p>Good luck--<p>Kathi<p>PS--if you've read the books, I'm sure you recognise that the ultimatim he used is a good example of a "love buster"...I'm sure he has some examples where he feels you love bust as well. Maybe, in addition to working on POJA, you can both work on IDing and eliminating LBs...<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</p>

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Hanora...<p>He will be down as long as the Bishop says he must be there. He doesn't get to chose when to leave. Which means that every time he gets a new appointment I have to give up my job I have and search for a new one. Theres no stability in this, and I value stability. My family and I grew up in the same house in the same town for over 20 years.<p>This is really tearing us apart....I have many people tell me that this is a calling for me too. But what about me as a person too? Is that selfish? I had career goals...but with the Bishop telling us where we will go and when we will go, it doesn't leave much room for me to make a career.<p>I feel I was really naive about this. I'm 23. I didn't think about this enough before we got married. I should have. I'm regretting being so ignorant and naive not to try to work out what I wanted from life, what my values were, and communicate those to him. I SHOULD have done that.<p>But like most relationships, I fell in love by the flowers and dates we went on, and all the praises he used to give me.<p>I don't believe in divorce, and neither does he. But now I am wondering if we made a serious mistake getting married.

Some careers are more "portable" than others. Our last ministers wife was a teacher (very portable). Our new ministers H is a management consultant (he travels a lot, but can be based anywhere). All of her appointments though have been in the same large city, so they have not had to move a lot. <p>What is your planned career?<p>[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</p>

Also, as I understand (and it may be more true of some regions than others) while one must go where the bishop assigns you, you can also request reassignment after a couple of years...they may or may not reassign you, however, as they must try and balance the needs of the congregations against those of the clergy and families involved. One can also request staying in a general area...perhaps next time you two can communicate better on what to request.<p>I think the bigger issue though is, as you say, that you may not be willing or able to handle a life where many aspects are not at your discretion. In many ways, it is like being a military spouse...very difficult, and as I said, I could not do it. <p>I'm assuming you have a strong faith yourself, and have probably prayed for guidance; if not, I'd suggest that praying together would be a great idea. The main thing is that if you two are to make it, you need to find a way to "be on the same side", working toward common goals...whatever they are.<p>Kathi<p>PS<p>I can't believe the minister who married you did not go over this kind of thing with you--what to expect, discussion of the issues involved, etc. Maybe they need a "orientation to being a minister's spouse workshop!!!"<p>Out of curiosity, I went to the search engine I use (google) and entered "clergy spouse"...got a number of hits for associations and information, several of which were UMC groups, several other denominations. You might want to see if any of these can give you insight into how others resolve these issues...<p>One article I found...<p>www.midwestministry.org/shad_dan.html<p>[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</p>

Kathi,<p>I read that link last night and shared it with Charlie. Thank you very much for posting it. I could very much identify with much of the problems that were talked about. Charlie and I were able to sit down last night and talk about the link you gave.<p>Carrie

I am glad you were able to sit down and talk about it some more...as long as lines of communication are in good repair, you can get thru a lot together [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ...but when communication shuts down, that's when things really get bad.<p>Hang in there!<p>Kathi

This Midwest Ministry...from what I had read about...it is a company that work with Pastors and their spouses. Sounds like a good idea but we have nothing like this around us. We were not marriage counseled about any of this. Like the lady in that article, I naively thought that since it was not my career, I could have my own career without worrying about involvement in the church. I see otherwise now. <p>I feel so overburdened because I don't know have anyone to talk to about this--and in a small town like Brook, if I shared my issues with one person, it would get back to the rest of the town. It's that whole issue of professionalim. How do we deal with learning to deal the new issues of a church and us being newlyweds, and dealing with all these struggles, and my mom dying, without anyone to help us?

Any chance that you could settle half way between Lafayette and Brook? I believe your husband should try to make it possible for you to attend university and living half way between would not be inconvenient for either one of you.<p>My husband and I are soon moving to Tennessee. He will be working in a town very similar to Brook and we are moving from Houston, Texas. Talk about a culture shock! However, he and I did not make our decision about where we would move until we had both seen the town. We both agreed that working there was one thing, but living there another. So we have agreed to live south of Nashville. That is over an hour drive one way for him every day to work. I asked him if he was sure he wanted the commute. I left the final decision up to him and he preferred to live closer to Nashville. If he had decided that it would be too much travel for him, I would have agreed to live closer to his employment. I believe he was thinking about what I would like when he made the decision. We both agreed to give it a try but if he feels burdened in the future we can reconsider another move.<p>I hope your husband will consider your needs/desires too and I hope you will work this out so that you both will get what you want--an education and a small town environment.

Trainingangel.<p>Thanks for your response. Let me say that if we were a normal couple this would pertain to us. However, my husband is a pastor for the Methodist church, and he is placed where the cabinet and Bishop decide. We arent able to go and choose the place we will live.<p>I agree with you that he should be willing to compromise on where we live. But there has not been any compromise by him....<p>Carebear

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Hanora...<p>I don't think I will get a chance to do that before we move. And there are only 2 churches in this small town that we are going to...<p>Purdue, the school I want to go to pursue my Masters, is on a different time zone than the one Brook is in the fall. Therefore to drive there and get there in time, I would have to leave 2 hrs early. Also, my tuition would be paid for in getting a teaching assitantship in the department. In my eyes, it makes more sense for us to live closer.<p>I don't know...this issue seems to be dividng us.

PS. Yes I would have to be at the University every day, between classes and teaching undergraduate classes to undergraduates.