My wife of three years who I have been with for 4 came to me two months ago and told me she wanted to leave me and move out. This came as a complete surprise to me as we did not have severe or often fights, we did not cheat, we did not have money issues, we spent quality time with each other and everything other than sex was great. We always had problems with sex as she did not want it, pretty much at all. It started out not often also 1 time every other week at the start and went to 1 time every few months. I would try quite often, but it was not an important thing to me, I thought our relationship was, but I respected her when she said no each week I tried. But I come to find out that this is the main reason she left me. I asked if we could work on it and we went to a counselor for a month, but she did not seem to really open up during the sessions, nor did she even seem like she wanted to try. She kept saying I think it is too far gone and I have lost my desire toward you and don't foresee me getting it back. She told me all this and moved out within a month and seemed to have her mind made up from the start. We said we would work on it, and that she would explore herself sexually as she never did, but 3 weeks later she still has not done anything. She said she wanted her independence and did not want to have responsibilities of a marriage anymore. By the way she is 24 and I am 32. But she keeps going out with a few guys she knows, spent the night a few times, she says no sex or intimacy with them, which I do believe. And she talks on the phone till 1 to 2 am with a girlfriend of hers till she falls asleep because she can't sleep alone and does not like being alone. But if she wanted her independence why is she leaning on all these people for support. It seems like she is not trying to fix anything or explore herself or even consider herself married. She takes her rings off when she goes to get-togethers of friends of hers and goes to clubs. I still consider myself married and love her very much and wanted to at least try to work things out to give it a chance. She still says she loves me, we talk every other day and see each other about 1 time a week, more like friends than husband and wife. I am getting books like: Rekindling desire, Resurrecting Sex, The sex starved marriage and Everything you know about sex is wrong. Because I want to try and fix things. But should I keep trying or consider it a lost cause. Because if she is not getting her alone time, not exploring herself, and relying on all these other people to help her feel not lonely, how can I expect her to work on us when she is not even working on herself learning what is bothering her. She has never had a good sex drive, she says she has never had an Orgasm, she never performed oral sex on me, but has on other guys three times she said before me. I just don't want us to throw away a marriage that we worked on and that is great other than sex, because she might have a sexual disjunction or something. I just see a pattern of her leaning on people and moving on and on and on. I know we are so good together. She has not even told her parents she has separated from me either? Why? I feel she is just running away from the problem rather than addressing it. I would go to other counseling if I thought it would help but the last one either did not ask the right questions or could not see through what she said. Anyway if you can give me any advice I would sure appreciate the help.

Hi tryingtocope123,

I'm sorry this is happening to you. Your wife was very young when you met and married. She was 20 and you 28. When I was 20, I didn't really know much, was not experienced in relationships, nothing.

She said she wants her independence and doesn't want the responsibilites of marriage anymore.
She feels she has missed out in life, and is changing her mind and wants to live an independent life now, which is not fair to you,
I know.

I commend you for going to counseling an giving it a good try. You can't do anything w/ her as long as she is unwilling. But you can do what is right for you.

She said we would work on it, and that she would explore herself sexually, but three weeks later and she hasn't done anything.
But she keeps going out with a few guys she knows, spent the night a few time, and says no to sex or intimacy, which I do believe.
I'm not so sure about that. Could you expect her to spend the night at a few guys house and not do anything?? That is just unrealistic.
I know you want to believe her, but maybe this is the way she is exploring her sexual self.
I really hope she isn't doing that for your sake, but it is something you should look further into.

Is her girlfriend that she talks to til 1-2am, a single girl also?

It sounds like to me, she has decided she wants singleness, nothing to do with you. But she is going to find out the hard way it's not as great
OUT THERE, as she thinks it is. And you should be very careful of std's, if she is sleeping with other guys. Just a little warning for you.

Have you heard of the 180? ToomuchCoffeeMan can help you with that and explain it much better that I. You should get a hold of him. Just write a post to...Attn:TooMuchCoffeeMan.

Ladysheep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But she keeps going out with a few guys she knows, spent the night a few times, she says no sex or intimacy with them, which I do believe.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry but I find your last words very hard to beleive. If there is no sex or intimacy, then why is she going out with them in the first place? If she is having an A(affair) on you, do you beleive she is going to tell you? The fact that she moved out is another very strong sign of infidelity because many WS(wayward spouses), especially the ones without children, don't want to see the BS(betrayed spouse) and lie to him/her that there is no one involved.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has not even told her parents she has separated from me either?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why? If she is not doing anything bad (having an affair) and has a good relationship with her parents, then why does she not confide in them by telling them she has separeted from you?

Look my point in bringing up all of this, is not to get you riled up and start falsely accussing her of cheating on you, BUT to open your eyes to the very likely possibility that she MAY be having an A(affair). A wife or husband just doesn't get up and leave their spouse without a valid reason such abuse, neglect or infidelity, and since you already ruled out the first two, it only leaves the third one to be verified.

Even if I'm wrong and there is no one she is involved with, infidelity isn't just breaking the vow of foresaking all others, it also means breaking the other marital vows of for better or worse and in sickness and in health (which she HAS done so already).

What can you do? Well first off, read Dr Willard Harley's books 'Surviving An Affair', 'Love Busters' and 'His Needs Her Needs' as well as Michelle Weiner Davis's books 'Divorce Remedy' and 'The Sex Starved Marriage'(which you already have). Get acquainted with Plan A and Plan B and the four rules for a succesful marriage by clicking on the links in my signature bellow.

Ladysheep mentioned to you Michelle Weiner Davis's 180 degree list and here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

Combining the list with Plan A (negotiating an end to her behavior without resorting to love busters (angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements, and selfish demands) you have a very strong cocktail. Will it work? That can't be answered until a few months go by and you see whether she's come back or whether she is still on her own. In the case that it doesn't then you go Plan B in which you writte her a letter explaining that you love her very much and wish to rebuild the marriage, but that her behavior is too painful for you to have any more contact, and to please not contact you unless she wants to rebuild the marriage by ending her behavior and to commit to follow a marital recovery plan that includes counseling with a pro-marriage professional like Steve Harley at Marriage Builders Counseling Center or Penny Tupy at Save Your Marriage Central, AND strict observance of The Four Rules For A Succesful Marriage, you should not accept anything less from her than her willingness to follow these two deal breakers for it will tell you whether she is indeed serious about rebuilding the marriage or just fearful of losing you but not committed to work on the marriage.

Good luck and keep us updated.

<small>[ July 10, 2003, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>