Myu W and I have an court date on our annivesary day. While talking yesterday, she asked me about this,, stating she was surprised that i haven't changed it, due to the fact its *our wedding annivesary* Why would this matter when she has filed for divorce? This day now becomes a nothing day!? She informed me that she sen me and waved, noticed i didn't wave back, so she thought i was just being stuck up and still angry at her. So, me always trying to add humor, i waved to her, twice. Asking if maybe that could help make up for missing her wave. Trying to reassure her i didn't see her wave,,
While walking behind her yesterday, she asked if her pants looked to tight,, so again trying to make laughter, i said, *now what makes you think i'm looking at your rear, do i look at rears while walking behind a lady* Anyhow, i informed her her rear looked great!!
She knows i want to stay married to her.
I know my W visits where her first sons dad lives, out to a lake. While talking yesterday, she spoke of a boat she now owns, i wondered if maybe she was speaking of this, just to like rub stuff in, do you know what i mean? It was like i was being tested!?
A few weeks ago on her visitation week-end, when my children were back home, my 5 year old spoke of W first sons dad staying where my W now lives, which is back at her mothers.
At one point yesterday, while our children were making sticker pictures, W suggested lets do a lake. So i got up and went and walked the halls, we were at the docs office.
My questions are, am i making more into these, am i seeing what i wanted to see? Why be concerned about a date, if there is to be a divorce??
Why so much talk about us, in our times together, in the past?? I feel as though i receive mixed messages from her. ! ?

Dear Stephan,

It seems you are being given mixed messages. If she knows you want to stay married to her, then it seems one path is to find ways to demonstrate the power of your love to her.

Another question is whether you can find a way to manage a comfortable relationship with your soon-to-be ex-wife.

There seem to be quite a few issues to negotiate in order to put the marriage on track to being considered to be in recovery. Where do you want to start?

How about meeting your W after work for dinner, or for lunch, or other times when you know where she will be? Spend time giving her attention, and see where it goes.

You mention joking around with your wife, and that may be appropriate for the circumstances you were in, but a different level of communication is probably needed for putting things on a path back together. If she wants a postponement, give it to her. The rule I was taught, was that if it is easy to do what your wife asks for, do it. So often you are trying to put things into her love bank that she does not give credit for, and then she tells you what would be an easy deposit, and You and I often miss the easy ones.

The earlier you ask for a postponement, the less expensive it will be.

Best of decisions to you,

Quipper,
Married 28 years and still struggling

W placed a bogus PPO, also known as a RO,restraining order. I asked her tp postpone the divorce for one year, go to an MC, she agreed. Days later i found out earlier in that same day she filed for this PPO!! She added that Steve i have been asking for three weks for you to set up an appointment, so i finally did, gave her the date, she never showed. She never showed due to this PPO. Before she filed for this PPO, i had asked her out on a date, which she agreed, when this day came, she never answered the phone. In these days she was also involved in her PA, or EA.
The only communication allowed between us is regarding to our children only. Although she breaks it when she feels the need or what ever. Have i as well, a few times yes. Each time i think why? I do not want to give her the chance to have me placed in jail. This is extremely difficult, this is my family, this is my wife.
When i was awarded custody, one of the reasons the court did this was due to the fact W stated she would allow me to have custody of our 5 year old, she would maintain custody of our 3 year old. So she helpeed defeat her ownself, yet she placed all blame onto me, even once again accusing me of being full of lies.
Sorry, i'm off to the races here again,,, the personal saga race that is.
I would love to ask her out, better yet, i would love the opportunity to be allowed to take her out
to be able to spend time with her,, w/o the talk of our marriage though.
Yesterday while we were together, i gave her a compliment, she said something about trying to get a brownie point,,, i have always been able to make her laugh, yesterday was no exception,,
I used to try to tickle her, each and every time she would become upset,,, so i gave up on laughter from tickling,,,
Where do i want to start, i don't have a clue as to where, and or how,,??
So many times i have came so close to emailing her a letter,, taking a chance on this PPO, yet i always manage to refrain from this. After yesterday, i almost went ahead and emailed her,,
We spent most the day together yesterday for a doctor visit for our five year old daughter. Next week we will spend another day at the docs office, something in ways i now look forward to,,

Dear Stephan,

It seems the PPO is a problem for you.

Stream of conscious ideas: what was the original basis for the PPO? Have you done counseling since the PPO? What does your lawyer say about going back into court to modify the PPO? Do you have the money for the lawyer to file a Motion for Modification of a PPO?

There are Motions day in courts, usually every week, and you just need to give the other side some 10 or 20 days notice, depending on the jurisdiction. Motion for Modification of a PPO. I don't hear you describe what happened when you tried to modify the PPO?

You can type out the logical reasons for modifying the PPO, and the reasons that the granting of the original PPO was either mistaken, or the cirucmstances have changed. If you take the original PPO, and go through it, and look at the motions for and oppositions to, in your court file, you should get a good idea of how to let your heart flow.

1. The PPO is bad model for the kids.

2. No physical threats at least recently.

3. Joint meetings at Doctor's visits OK.

Do the work for your lawyer. Save money by saving his time. Get supporting letters from a minister or counselor, etc. Line up witnesses. I like Wests Digests. Go to your local law library, and find summaries of cases on PPO's, photocopy some cases that seem helpful to you, give your lawyer a copy. There are legal aid society's that will give you some recources in drafting pleadings yourself. Find a helpful law librarian, or clerk of the court.

You may not be disclosing the full reasons behind the PPO, but whatever they were, change them, and show they are changed.

Courts to some extent are trying to save marriages. If you can show the positives, you may have a chance. Say, limit contacts to 5 times a day, 8 AM to 8 PM, 5 days a week. Whatever number the court will allow, so you can catch her after work etc. Probably 20 times a day, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, would be harrassment.

I used to think that if a woman loved me, then she would be faithful, and then I would marry her, and she would then be even more fathful to me.

Well, I now believe that fidelity of a woman needs to be managed. When I feel wandering impulses in my wife, I start giving her more attention, and put more effort into surrounding my wife with time and emotions. Many lovers physically hurt their lover in jealousy. Be careful what you are leading yourself into, and try to keep your escape routes clearly in mind.

I don't like to go to dinner with my wife, unless she has driven her car to the restaurant, so that if tensions build up, I can drive away, smoothly and quickly.

But, the deceipt that is being practiced by your wife, gives rise to a question of integrity. Somebody else may be pulling her strings. She may be at a low point on the Tone Scale, like Covert Hostility, 1.1, which is actually very frightened, and creates illogical chaos, with the idea of getting the attention off themselves as the top priority. See SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL by L. Ron Hubbard.

I should try to be more encoraging to my wife to bringing her up the tone scale. Tickling is one way, compliments is another way, but understanding fear, resentment anger, antagonsim, and boredom, can be helpful also. What are her sources of fear? What are the wrong targets of her anger and antagonism? What are better targets?

You make it sound like the PPO is cast in stone. Show your power and change it. Demonstrations of power are arrousing to a woman.

Here is to the Revocation of the PPO!

Quipper,
Married 28 years, still struggling.

Dear Stephan,

Since you seem overly intimidated by the divorce process, I will mention one of your other powers. The power is like having an army, or fighting a war. Preventing war can sometimes be accomplished by arraying your army in well defended positions.

You say that your wife's attorney filed a bogus PPO. Letters of complaint about lawyers to bar associations are ordinarily not given much weight, but an investigation will be conducted into any letter sent, and the attorney will have to respond. An over-zealous attorney might get a 30 day suspension at best.

But, your power of suggesting to your wife, "I should file a complaint with the Bar on your attorney for going over the line on being too loose with the truth on that PPO." creates the aviance of power. Turn the letter over in your mind, but do not be tempted to send the letter, unless you get much more detailed advice than I am giving you here. Sending such a letter creates a set of chaos that will be difficult to control. Arraying your troops defensively, and conducting attacks on your enemy's camp is an entirely different matter.

Just let her know that you have that piece of artillery in place, if it is needed defensively.

Good luck moving your chess pieces,

Quipper
married 28 years and still struggling.

Dear Stephan,

Some of your other posts disclose that your wife accuses you of being abusive.

Providing counsel, leadership and advice is different from manipulating, conniving, and dominating by belittling or insulting.

Is it possible to find the suporters of the idea of abuse, for your wife? The attrorney is suspect. Scientology has what is called a PTS/SP
course, which describes how some people come unduly under the influence of others, and how to counter the problem.

I thought my wife was in love with me when we were first dating, because she would go along with some of my ideas. Now I realize that she is PTS, Potenatial Trouble Source, which is a special term used for someone who is easily influenced by other people. My wife picks up ideas from others, then I have to deal with the ideas from the other people, and get my wife back on track to the reality of our marrriage and household. Sometimes I know who the others are, sometimes I suspect, and sometimes I never find out who planted the idea.

Your power structure is weak, with your wife accusing you of being abusive. If your wife is unforgiving, then how do you handle the situation? If she wants to hold you to every imperfection of raised voice or frustrated glance, what are you going to do?

You need to get handle on her accusing you of being abusive. When I start to lose my temper, I leave the vicinity, and I refrain from being abusive, by leaving if I start to lose it. That may not work for you, but it may give you some idea of some process for getting that cycle handled, Disagree, acuse aabuse, then she does what she wants, outside POJA.

It seems you could use some sort of modified plan B, where you could withdraw support from her and the children, and let her do it on her own, to see if she really does not appreciate your overall contribution.

The 180 Degree Divorce Buster by Toomuchcoffeeman, a week ago, in Nefgotiating, may give you some ideas of changing up the relationship, so that W will see your value better.

Your wife seems to feel she can jerk your chain whenever she wants to, and you are just going to keep pouring in the love.

I would find selective ways to change and withdraw, to demonstrate power.

Best wishes,

Quipper
married 28 years, still struggling

The PPO, In Jan. W stated she was leaving in Feb., she had her first two children pack their belongings, in her PPO, she stated i forced her from marital home,, she also added that i was following her around,,i didn't even follow her not even once. There were times when she wanted me to call her,, when i did, i noticed she would say *i'm busy, call me back in five minutes* so then she stated i was harrassing her. I went to where she works, maybe three times, our five year old wanted to see mommy,,some of the calls were even from our daughter. I never gave my W reason for a PPO. I think the reason she did this was so i wouldn't find out about the other person.
I have gone to MC maybe five times,,
When i tried to protest this PPO, her lawyer contacted me stating i needed to cancel the court dates, due to the fact every thing i did was improper,, and or too late. By this time W now had ex-parte for temp. custody, and she was also denying me time with our children, so i waited til what i thought was thee last day possible,, only to learn that the week-ends counted toward the 14 days allowed for me to respond. Her lawyer also said that if i didn't cancel, that i could end up oweing him $5oo.oo, all he had to do was explain to the judge that he called me, informed me of this and or that,,, so i cancelled the court date. with this PPO, Legal Aide refused to help me, now i'm considered a criminal,,,,,, and i could not afford an attorney.
To top things off, now i'm unemployed,,, three weeks now.
I never gave my W reason one to place any PPO against me,,, one evening on the phone, W was telling me how i was hiding behind buildings watching her while she was at work,,, i said come on, lets be realistic here, first of all i have children at home,,W works second shift,,, eventually she said well it feels like your doing this.
W was suppose to move out Feb. 8th, Feb 10 i asked her the whens wheres and whys, reassured her i didn't want her to go, can't twist her arm, can't this and or that, she said she had no place to go, yet her two children were telling me that where they were going was w/ two bedrooms, and no pets,,, i said to W if your still planning on leaving, than get your belongings now, i can't handle this,,, W called the police telling them i was throwing her out, i went to jail for an over due speeding ticket,, days later i received a phone call from her friend, saying W told her i went to jail for domestic. W even told me this same thing,, so i called the courts to find out,, and no, it was for ticket.
As for her attorney with PPO, he phoned me awhile back and as we discussed things, i told him i had no respect for him, due to the fact how he apparently represents lies, and the all American dollar must have his greedy side,, he informed me he knew nothing about the PPO, asked if i would give him a copy, which i did.

Steven

In the beginning when we would start to argue, i would try to find ways to put it on hold, if you will, ande i would go for a walk or go to the store, so the heat of the moment thing couldn't escalate. Eventually she informed me she didn't like that, so i ended up staying there trying to maintain composure. The one real big issue that i have a problem with, is when i was asked a question, and W would refuse to accept my answer,, i'd always say i know who and or whats in my mind and jeart. Still, my replies were denied, so i'd ask then why do you ask me if you already know the answers.
As for belittling her, and i think it was berating her, i just received a letter maybe a week ago from her lawyer stating just this,, i don't know much about this, all i know is i'd give my true thoughts and feelings,, feelings though, feelings are a selfish thing, because nobody else shares the same feelings,,,
W was often upset w/ me, the rolling of the eyes thing,, i'm not sure what i have, but i roll my eyes often, even when i'm alone,, and i sguint and have to likesqueeze my eyes shut tight,, i've explained this to my W. In fact, i notice my 14 year old daughter has the same thing,,,,
So many times when W and I would have discussions, especially after she moved out, so many times i'd hear her say,, this is my idea, and no, i haven't talked to anybody,and i'm capable of making my own decisions,,
One night we discussed her coming back, working on us,, the next thing i knew she called me back, yelling screaming, and accusing, and again said that no she didn't talk to anybody,
The friend i have spoke about a few times, has even said the sa,e thing,, its as if she's talking to somebody, and being maybe influenced,,,

What do you ,ean, is it possible to find supporters for the idea of abuse, for W.
When she first started saying this, i'd ask her how and why,,, how she felt, why she felt,, i even agreed with her, afterall this is coming from my wife,,

Your power structure is weak, with your wife accusing you of being abusive. If your wife is unforgiving, then how do you handle the situation? If she wants to hold you to every imperfection of raised voice or frustrated glance, what are you going to do?

I always placed everything as best as i could behind us,, and continued forward,, yes at times this was difficult. I would so many times hear her say why are you yelling,,, and times she would say i don't have to stand here and be treated this way,, have i yelled, yes. To begin with, for some reason i have always been a loud person, also we had six children in the house,, and when i would get home, i was excited to be here, so i'd be loud in that sence, does that make sence? I could and or would go weeks w/o yelling, yet still be accused, and still
always be denied in the bedroom, hearing no, cuz you yelled ar me,, i tried to explain to her this in itself was and is frustrating.
I started even accepting every thing she would say, and or accuse me of,, just to keep peace and harmony, i thought who cares who's right or wrong,, i sure don't. But that in turn brings on some thing else,, yes W can jerk my chain if and when she wants, because i allowed it for so long, i used to think it was ok, because i was married to her, you know? It wasn't worth the arguement.
W started saying i was a negative person, i tried to explain tio her how the brain works after being denied, that yes it brings on negative thoughts,, and yes i would have negative thoughts, and times i would act on them, rather intentional, or untentionaly,,
One night W came home from work, shared her evening, which was ok by me, cuz it was a part of her, i asked if maybe she could come home to us and or me some times,, next thing i knew, she wasn't waking me at all, so i asked her about this, sher stated i told her not to wake me anymore,, those words never entered my mind, let alone leftr my mouth, so i tried to explain.
I know i don't have all the answers, i sure wished i did, wouldn't that make life so much easier!? lol

My power structure is weak,, can you explain this please, i'm not sure if i quite understand?
I do know that in March i told her that i'm now going to start standing up against her,, that i too in turn do not have to accept certain things, and i don't have to be treated this way,,
With PPO, some times i find myself still trusting her, and i open up to her,, then later in the day i think maybe i shouldn't have,, but i do want her to know that i gave her my committment, and my forever, was just that, forever.
I think i mentioned that i have even stopped calling her to see if she wanted to spend time w/ our children on this day or that. I called her six maybe seven days in a row, only to hear no for this reason or that,,, i started thinking maybe she;s going to try to use this against me as well,, the times she calls here, i always have to ask her if she wouold like to talk to the children,, so many times i realize i struggle, i want to follow my heart,,,
I told her the other day, if this is what makes youy happy is by being divorced, than so be it,,i again reassured her this is not what i want, that her decision is only a one way street,, apparently my decision to save marriage is as well, a one way street.
I'd like to say, i'm open to any and all ideas,,
thank you
I do know that i'm going to do the best i can where my children are concerned,, so they can be the happiest possible,, thru out this ordeal,,
thanks,,

Dear Stephan

Written earlier Sunday, offline:

In thinking further about your earlier posts, I suggest a deeper definition of the issues to be negotiated.

Your wife feels that your suggestions are more intense than she feels comfortable with. So you can have two goals of therapy. One is that you can try to appear less intense to your wife, at least at times when she is not ready for that level of intensity. The goal for her could be for her to develop mechanisms to communicate to you that your intensity of suggesting is above her level of comfort, at that time, and to communicate when you can tell it is the wrong time to bring up suggestions.

My brother states that it is his rule to never suggest to his wife what she should do.

You could line up al the expert witnesses on your side that you are not abusive, but your problem with your wife might remain, as apparently she finds your leadership style too intense, at lest occasionally.

I had a very nice live-in girl friend years ago, and she often would lie to me about a wide range of issues. The reason she lied to me, was because she was unable to present her side of the issues to me, because she felt I was not listening, and that I was too intense on my side of the issues.

I married a Scorpio with a Moon in Aires, and she can be intense in presenting her point of view. But I took the name Quipper, because I spend at least several hours each month, with a telephone coach, going over the issues I want to present to my wife, so that I am not perceived as overly intense. I present my suggestions to my wife in a carefully worded, and prepared phrases, and I ordinarily wait for my wife to bring up the subject, before presenting my thoughts.

You might benefit from a parenting course with your wife, in which they teach active listening. This is where you listen with feedback being mostly limited to fully understanding the point of view of the other person. Your son, your wife, etc. My wife and I always got along better after taking a parenting course.

What I see as needing negotiating is for you to find your wife's comfort level with the intensity of your suggestions, under which circumstances, and have a mechanism for stepping back, or stepping out, when you are about to exceed those limits.

I have a motor home 3 miles down the road. When I start to become too intense, I just excuse myself to my motor home, and come back at say 3 to 5 AM, and resume being pleasant.

You need to get your list of unfulfilled wishes in hand, and be aware of what brings on your intensity, and have your wishes ready to present in a calm, unobtrusive manner.

When your wife did not show up for the Marriage Counseling session, did you go ahead and use the time to your best advantage?

Make another appointment for marriage counseling, and let her know when it is when next you communicate about doctors.

You may still have the opportunity to save your marriage by showing your wife that you can reduce your intensity of suggestions, limit the timing of making suggestions to when she is ready for suggestions, and that you can be a good listener. My wife at least once, told me that she was refusing to go to the session that I had scheduled, then came storming in shortly after the start of the session, and said that she was not going to let me present my side of the issues, without the therapist hearing the truth.

My earlier suggestion of going to court to modify the POP, should probably not be your first priority. Ideally, your wife would phone her lawyer and ask him to file a Motion to drop the PPO.

Your other posts indicate other issues, for which I have not suggested a negotiating, coaching and counseling format, but the issue of abuse, or her perception of overly intense suggestions, issue seems key and central

I wrote this before reading your last two posts, in Word, so I will post this now, and read your earlier posts.

Best Wishes,

Quipper,
Married 28 years, still struggling

Dear Stephan,

You said that you are unrepresented, and that your wife's attorney is contactng you directly. You also said that her attorney did not know about the PPO, so it may have been written up by a court case worker, and many of your troubles are traced to that Order.

Part of a man's power, in this society is money, and the attorneys you can afford.

One of the rules in dealing with lawyers is to always be civil and polite, and a good loser. I don't suppose you have to follow the rule, but annoying opposing attorneys is not usually in your best interests. Attorneys are supposed to be cautious in dealing with unrepresented adversaries. But perhaps one of your relaitives can pay for an attorney to at least give you advice of how to proceed, and what to look out for.

It does not sound like you have a coach to help you formulate plans, follow through, and revise as you go along. Find a retirement home, with someone you can vist to keep your thinking straight. I pay my coach $15.00 per hour, for time over the phone.

Your situation is difficult and complex. It seems your first challenge is to get a job. However, it is sometimes better to have mimimum income when going to court. Maybe you should get a job at McDonalds.

Your approach that you are going to do the best you can for your children is certainly noble, but some men have taken the approach that if the wife is going to intiate divorce, that she should take full responsibility for raising the kids. When a married man says that he will take no responsibility for raising the children in a divorce or separation, that approach sometimes helps the wives to re-think getting a divorce.

You said that you tried leaving when you started getting too loud for your wife, but that she did not like it. My wife does not like it when I walk out of an argument either, but I keep my sanity, and I demonstrate my power to leave. I also minimize any abuse that can be claimed. I also allow her time to think about what my side of the argument was about, and how she can do better in the future. Perhaps it is too late now, but the partnership of marriage is a balancing of powers and responsibilities.

If your wife is going to accuse you of lurking around buildings when you are at home, then things have gotten a little out of hand.

I hesitate to give you speicific advice, beause your wife is difficult to predict. Basically you need to come up with a plan, work it, and then re-evaluate it frequently.

I am confused as to why how your wife's attorney has persuaded you not to go to court to modify the PPO. So What if you owe him $500.00; make payments of $10.00 per month. What Legal Aid attorney refusee to help you? If your income is 0, you should qualify for legal assistance in your jurisdiction. Go to the Executive director, the Chariman of the Board of directors. You should be able to get a low cost attorney now.

Best wishes,

Quipper,
Married 28 years, and still struggling.

Dear Stephan,

Perhaps we can set the goal as commanding respect.

I can identify with many of viewpoints of confusion that you describe, as I have had to struggle with the goal of commanding respect from others.

When your wife says you are lurking behind buildings, abusing her, or throwing her out, or she is otherwise being less than truthful, these are signals that you have failed to command her respect. I earlier described your problem as failing to have power in the marriage, and that is part of commanding respect. Commanding respect covers more areas.

I have struggled with the concept of commanding respect. I am Aquarius, and intellectual, and dreamy does not often get the respect of power.

Certainly counseling is one way to work on ways to command respect. I Believe in an earier post, 12:14 AM, on this thread I mentioned the book SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL by L. Ron Hubbard.

I have studied Scientology, and found the study of the Scientology Tone Scale to be very helpful in developing ways of commanding respect. I have spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours studying Scientology, and if you give the Scientologists your address, they will mail you free fliers frequently. If you give your phone number, they will call you every few weeks, to ask you to spend money for courses, books, video tapes and auditing, (counseling with questions). You do not have to spend a lot of money, but I let you know of their tenacity in advance, so you are not surprised. Scientologists are enthusiastic about your spending money on books and courses, but if you let them know your budget, they will try to work with you the best they can. I have gone to Scientology missions, and they have let me sit in their bookstore and look at their books.

The tone scale is helpful to know how to speak to people to command respect. Auditing questions are helpful to know how to draw people out on what they are really thinking or trying to say. Whether to use fear, anger, antagonism, boredom, conservatism or enthusiasm, is important, because presenting an attitude that is too low or too high will leave you seeming unresponsive to the individual, and you will fail to command respect.

From your comments, it appears to me that you do not understand the Scientology Tone Scale, and you do not know the lists of auditing questions, or what the indicators are for asking each series of auditing questions. The auditing questions can help draw out the information that will help others see how best to cooperate with you.

Commanding respect is getting others to see that you are trying to cooperate with them, and that they should try to cooperate with you.

Best wishes,

Quipper,
Married 28 years, still struggling.

Greetings,
i spent a few hours again with my wife, seems all i copuld manage was to upset her, time after time. AT one point she thought i was upset with her, i reassured her i wasn't, asking what i did to leave this impression. She didn't know.
She still wants me to reschedule our court date, which is on our annivesary. I informed her i don't trust her, reminding her as to what was said and done when she said call the lawyer. I was accused of using our children, and refusing her joint custody, trying to force her back into the marriage. I once again reassured her that i can't force ger into anything. Still to no avail, so, so be it. She than spoke about how the ball is in my court, blah blah,,, also adding that i refused to agree and sit down with her and her lawyer, agreeing to joint custody, which i did refuse. She than added that she was going to have her lawyer drop the PPO, which this was the first i have heard about this. SHe never mentioned this in the past, anyhow, when it goes in front of the judge, i'll simply state the facts.
I can't for the life of me, figure out how i still manage to upset this lady so.
Before she left here, i again managed to upset her, i was again accused of another, so i asked her if that was my intention, which i asked this several times today. Anyhow, i became Mr. ASSertive!! Stated how i try to at least maintain a friendship with her, and all she manages to do is to accuse me, point the finger, and to blame me, and continue to be upset at me. I added how she continues to hate me, reminding her i made a choice to love her, gave my promise and commitment with my forever, that she was thew one who decided to walk out, and the only choice she makes is to continue to hate me. Her reply was how i'm again turning things around, and that all she came her to do was to pick up her children, and i'm reprimanding her. So, i again reassured her i wasn't reprimanding her, that this was not my intentions,,,, afterwardes, i helped secure an item in her trunk, she thanked me, azsked if i wanted some cigs. Then she pulled up in front of the house, talking some more, as if she was the nicest person on the face of the earth. ASking when she should return the children? *the courts state at 6p.m. adding that if that does not work for her, any time will. Except three, that was when she wanted me to return them, when she had custody.
Now, from what i have shared into the conversation, what am i still doing wrong???
She wasn't suppose to pick the children up until tomorrow, i agreed that she could take them today, our daughter had another appointment,,,
seems how she was in town. At one point today i again was accused of denying her visitation. My gosh, i agreed with her, and still be accussed!!!
Our daughter spoke of my W's first sons dad again, asking if he was going to be there and if so could they go to,,, W said why would he ve theremmm then she said yes, if he's there we will go to,,,... Something was said about this guy staying the night two weeks ago, W played this off pretty damn good, saying, oh he may have, i'm not sure, but if he did he stayed on the couch. Cuz he stayed late helping mom,,, My three year oldm and five year old spoke of him staying there with them two weeks ago. Maybe i'm assuming more into this, it really doesan't matter, the initial hurt is gone. Was it right for me to feel the hurt regards to this? I just don;t know anymore of what and hopw to think, other than, my thinking is over time, and i do love my wife, i made some LD's today, mistake!!!

WW emailed me informing me the court date was adjourned. Actually it was canceled. She had a few lies in here email.
Because i don't know when or what to trust from her, i phoned the court, they stated it was canceled, no further notice, nor rescheduling.
She still wants me to send her some agreement for joint physical custody, wants it by Monday. She also added the court wanted this, before we reschedule.
Maybe i'm using this as a tool, some wishful thinking. But at this time i refuse to agree with joint custody.
I just read the 180 turn around, realized i fail, in quite a few areas. When i see and or talk to her, all gaurds simply vanish!?
*confused*

<small>[ August 02, 2003, 06:50 AM: Message edited by: Stephan ]</small>

Dear Stephan,

I followed you to another post, and saw that you had been awarded custody of the children. I spoke in other posts on this thread about your power in the relationship. Maintaining custody of the children gives you substantially more power than you had previously. Congratulations.

I think you can now ponder your questions from a more positive point of view.

You are asking what you did wrong, and just because the results are not what you desire, and what probably 95% of your readers would agree is good, does not mean you did something wrong.

To understand your wife, I believe you will find it helpful to understand Covert Hostility. If your wife is in Covert Hostility, which I strongly suspect, then a prime motivation of your wife's comments is to create a distraction to show that others are blameworthy.

Many of your wife's puzzling comments fit into the pattern of the motivation to create the idea that others are blameworthy (you). Covert Hostility does not respect the truth, except to the extent that they think you can check on their story.

One of your problems is that you do not understand your wife. Understanding Covert Hostility will help you unsderstand your wife, I suspect.

Covert Hostility is basically intense fear, such that they truly feel that they are standing before a firing squad, and their only hope of drawing another breath of air, is to create a distraction that others are more blameworthy than they are.

Another significant motivator of 1.1, Covert Hostility, is that they will try to make you think that they have your best interests at heart. 1.1 wants you to believe that they are to be trusted, and that they will intervene on your behalf, whenever they can. These falsehoods are often conveyed in a convincing manner.

If you understand 1.1, then your wife will make perfect sense to you.

The rules of managing relations with a 1.1, is to avoid giving them any information or power. Do not trust yourself to know what they will find a way to use against you, make it a rule to never give any info or authority.

Another rule is to always stay in contact with those your wife talks to, who are important to you, with whom you need good relations. An example of this rule is when you called the Court directly to see about the cancellation. You should probably assume that your wife is confabulating to her lawyer, and that he is coaching her on how to collect evidence to be used to change your custdody of the children. She will probably twist the timing of picking up the kids and dropping the kids off to be your fault. You might be wiser to simply stick to what the Court has ordered, and if she does not follow it, let that be entirely on her. Keep a contemporaneous log.

It will probably be easier on the kids too, if they can know what to expect, when. You can expect some de-programming time for the kids, as she will probablly be attempting to point out bad things about you to your children. 1.1 is the classic backstabber.

The fact that you are still very much in love with your wife, is simply an example of the skill and guile of 1.1. If you don't want to read SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, ($55), the Psychology litterature refers to this complex personality as the Sword of Dramacles, who was a mythological person who was sentenced to be under the threat of death at an uncertain time in the future. A sword was magically placed over the head of Dramacles, ready to fall an lop off his head, and only a thread kept the sword from falling.

All My Fault, 29197, posted, HOW CAN WE OVERCOME... under Resolving Conflict. I posted 7-27-03, discussing Covert Hostility. Fault's husband was putting her down, for no good reason, so I suggested 1.1. Let us know what you think.

Congratulations again,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling.

<small>[ August 02, 2003, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>