My H and I have been using my IC as our MC and I have some seriuos reservations about her in respect to the latter. I think she is great for me personally; however, I find her extremely ineffective as a MC. The couple times I've mentioned it to H, his response has been, I just don't like what she has had to say.

Yet, everything I've read says I (and H, both) should be comfortable with the MC we are seeing and that ideally, the choice of whom to see is made together.

I've recently come to accept that it is what she says that bothers me. She tends to point out ways to make our "impending" divorce easier on the kids and not on ways to save our marriage. I find this to be extremely unprofessional if not unethical, and very unproductive. And this was before I did any reading on any subject.

First, am I right in thinking we should change counselors? And if so, how do I approach H to check into getting counseling from someone who actually has had some training in MC.

<small>[ November 11, 2003, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: TooTired4Words ]</small>

I'm very new to this site as well, but IMO you have to be comfortable with your MC and their style. When I wanted to change to a different MC, fortunately my H agreed, I actually went through the yellow pages. But first, I read through this website. On the home page there is a section for how to find a good marriage counselor.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7100_counselor.html

Read through this as it is very good information. I took alot of information from here, developed questions and I asked questions before I decided on a new MC. One of the questions I asked was what are your thoughts on the book HN/HN? I had just read this book and found it very informative and liked the style. I happened to find an MC who has this book and has a style very similar.

Good luck!

Hope4Best,

Thank you. I'm just getting back to this. I'm not sure your post answered my question, but I did look at the link you provided. It makes me want to change all the more. But my real question is how to propose changing to my H, who doesn't think it's necessary. I want to even more now, because this week he was wanting an ER session with our MC and we can't get in for another week. Well a week from now the ER is past. My H is in the process of breaking from OW and is having a very difficult time. I try and be there for him, but there is only so much I can do.

I think if we get a more pro-marriage counselor, than things like that night might be avoided. Any other suggestions?

My H is in the process of breaking from OW
Meaning he's not breaking from ow, he just "plans" on doing it? If it's not done, then it will go on and on.

I think if we get a more pro-marriage counselor, than things like that night might be avoided. Any other suggestions?
I HIGHLY recommend Steve or Jennifer Harley (see below).

I know that about the possibility of it going on and on. But I also no my H and the type of person he is. I don't think the A will go on and on. Having said that, I'm talking to him this weekend about doing it "right". Wish me luck.

Dear MHTougas,

My approach is to be kind to my wife in marriage counsleing sessions, but to give the counselor any criticism that comes to mind.

You do not mention standing up, pointing your finger at the counselor, and yelling at her. Telling her she needs to go back to her books to learn better.

If you shop around, and find another counselor that you like, and make an appoontnment with the coulselor, and cancel the other appointment, what will H say? Just give him the new address and new time. Either he shows up or he doesn't. Just tell him you would like to try this other couselor, because, A, B and C. My wife would sometimes show up, sometimes she would come late, sometimes she did not show. Either way, I made use of the time.

I have no problem with mistakes by marriage counselors, as it gives me the chance to lay into them and express my feelings, in a firece manner.

What kind of difficulties is your husband having in letting go of the OW? How can you best support him in that purpose?

Since you want to change counselors, I would suppose that it would be most logical for you to take the intiative to find a better counselor. You might first keep seeing CSW, and let him know that you are looking around, so that he can look around also, if he so desires.

Once you find a counselor you want to try, perahps after checking him out solo, or letting H come along, if he desires.

Sequence of phrases to H:
1. "I am looking for another MC, any ideas?"
2. "I found an MC that is supposed to be excellent, I am making an appointment to check him out. Did you want to come together to check him out, or is it OK if I go by myslef?"
3. "I found this MC who seems better than CSW. I made an appointment for X hour on Y day for us. Is that date OK, or should I reschedule?"
4. "I cancelled our apointments with CSW so we can check out new MC."

Certainly, you will be able to do a better sequence in reality, but that may give you a starting point to the question I perceived you to be posting, how do I negotiate a change in marriage counselors?

Blessings,

Quipper

<small>[ October 18, 2003, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Quipper,

Thanks for the advise. I'll see what H says regaridng the MC.

In answer to your question about what seems to be his difficulty, here is a very brief background.

My husband is in the middle of a PA that on Dr. Harley's spectrum of A's is on the high emotional ties side. He tells me he has avoided being physical with her since he made the decision to end it (1 wk ago tomorrow), which I can believe because I know where's he been for most of that time.

Basicaly, his difficulty lies in the fact that he's in love with her still and doesn't want to hurt her. He wants it to "settle nicely". He recognizes that it might not and has given himself until 10/31 before he just tells her what's what.

Obviuosly this can be him just manipulating me, and maybe it is, but I don't think that's it.

So, for now, all I can do is just be there for him when he goes through these little struggles. I let him know that I love him and when I know he's "down" (H's going through major depression already and he hasn't really cut the tie yet) I call him to let him know I'm thinking of him. I know his boundaries and for now, that's all I can do.

<small>[ November 11, 2003, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: TooTired4Words ]</small>

Dear 4words,

The phrsases that come to mind for H:

1. I need to start doing what I am supposed to do.
2. I need to try to make my marriage work better. I need to focus on making my marriage better.
3. I need to try to make my marriage work. I'm trying to do what I am supposed to do.
4. I have been dishonorable, and I need to stop being dishonorable.

Quipper

Quipper--

Thanks, I think that was just what I needed. I asked H last night why he thought he was ending A. I know it's hard for him, so I wanted him to hear himself say the words out loud. I knew what his first answer was going to be and I was right. "I don't know, why do you think" with a touch of sarcasm.

I told him I thought I knew, but I wanted him to tell me so I knew for sure and wasn't guessing.

These were his reasons:
1. He knew it was the right thing to do;
2. He didn't really think it could go anywhere in any event;
3. The kids;
4. He loves me.

Admittedly, I didn't care for reason #2, but he made a point of telling me his last reason was the most important. So, I told him when he was having problems to think of reasons 1,3 and 4 (although I spelled it out for him). Focus on those three things and the fact that I love him very much and he could get through anything.

This morning he told me he felt an incredible relief knowing he was going to be coming back home. It was like a big weight has been lifted from his shoulders he says. And, he asked me to get the paperwork together to dismiss his divorce petition. (We are both in the legal field and I have all the necessary forms on my home-office computer).

I'd say definitely looking up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for your advice. I wish I had found this site right after D-Day. It would have made these last 6 months so much easier.

4Words.

Dear 4 Words,

Role playing and practicing phrases is something that is often helpful. I had ended my post abruptly, as I was interrupted. You translated my proposed statements into a question, and that made it work for him, hopefully.

It is important to ask the right questions, and pay attention to the words in the answer to the right question.

It is difficult to actually put a second marriage together, when there are kids from the first marriage. Not impossible, but it makes better sense to stick with the first marriage, as resources are limited, ordinarily, so doing more for the first marriage is usually better than trying to get a second marriage going, with all the trimmings. Usually, the other woman has the goals of a house and children also. Seeing how everything is going to turn out in the long run is not always simple, because it is easy to look at things for just the moment.

Blessings,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

Quipper--

I don't know if it was asking him why he was ending the A, or if he just finally decided enough was enough but he did it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I know it was done in the midst of an argument and was not my ideal way for him to end things but I think he can stay the course. Especially since he's moving back home.

His way was good (because he did it) but bad also. It was done over the phone and she still has stuff at his apartment so NC can't work until it's all gone. I've told him I want to be there when she's collecting her stuff and he said okay, he understands that.

That's kind of a big deal because since he did this his preferred way, I'm not sure what he said.

Now we're back to talking about the counseling issue and he's pretty adamant about staying where we are. So I've proposed going to the next MB seminar and he is amenable to that. I think it's possible with the follow up that that seminar requires, he may see why I want a different counselor and may be willing to do so at that time. Although that may be hoping for too much. We'll see. The next five-six months will be long though waiting for that weekend. Thanks for all your help.

4Words.

<small>[ November 11, 2003, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: TooTired4Words ]</small>

Dear 4 Words,

Sometimes counselors will shift their style or approach, if you give them counseling goals. You might discuss possible counseling goals in MB. Some of the other catgories get a lot of traffic. One category that might have the best chance of having counsling experience, and sticking to the topic, might be in Recovery under Infidelity. The thread topic might be: Goals for Counseling in Recovery.

Handling the children, might be one topic. Taking a parenting course, is a way to get on the same page with your husband.

It seems your counselor's approach of your marriage not being able to be saved is not a big topic for your counselor at the moment, since you are back together.

You have not mentioned the Emotional Needs Quesitonaires. Reading the directions may make things go smoother. Married Girl reported that her husband had a tizzie over some of her answers to the questionaire.

Do you have a good system to give each other space during upsets?

Perahps you were not as ideal a wife as your husband might have desired, leading up to the straying. But, perhaps your husband is not the best violin player on the planet. You might look at 180 Degree Divorce Busters, under Negotiating, and at the end is THE LOVE DIET. This is how your husband can bring out the best in you. Print the Love Diet out for him.

I still say don't worry about your counsleor being wrong, just be ready to give her what-for. If there is something smoldering for you, put it in writing in MB, and see what words us readers come up with to explain to the counselor, her mistake. I think righteous railing at the counselor is effective therapy for the spouse.

Blessings,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

<small>[ October 21, 2003, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Quipper,

Thank you again for your words of wisdom. It's so funny how when I read other people's posts, as much as their difficulties are similar to mine, I know exactly what I'd do. But in my own situation, I'm completely lost.

No, we haven't done the questionnaires yet. We're currently trying to schedule another appt with our MC right now. And I'm going to that thread to find THE LOVE DIET. We'll see what happens, but I'm getting hopeful again.

Re giving each other space...we don't have a good system yet for that. We need to talk about that too because there are times when all I have to do is look at him to know he's fuming. I know if i can see it, our kids probably can too and they just don't get why Mommy and Daddy are having a rough time right now.

I'll let you know about the counselor. Thanks so much, again.

4Words.

<small>[ November 11, 2003, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: TooTired4Words ]</small>