I'm new here and I have a basic question about marriage counseling. I've read the information on this site and it seems to make a lot of sense to me. I'm in the process of disolving my marriage -- actually it's been melting for years . . . we're finally in counseling, which seems to be doing more harm than good. Chose a counselor who was local and took our insurance, but her approach is . . . odd. Or maybe it's just me. She doesn't want to talk about our past problems. Her feeling is we must find ways to communicate, to move forward. She doesn't want us to spend time "disagreeing" in her office as it is a waste of all our time. (I think she should see the dynamic and hear the problems!) She won't talk to us individually. She keeps on making suggestions about how to spend more time together to strengthen the marriage/family, but I'm barely able to stand my husband right now, much less trust him, so it seems to me we need to work on the basic problems first, so I would even WANT to be with him.

Long story short, I've been married 15 years. My husband suffers from depression/anxiety and -- according to my therapist and another independent evaluator -- from a personality disorder, which makes him "avoid discomfort" at all cost. But I'm not suppossed to discuss that in counseling either, especially because he won't admit it (at least not to her -- he has admitted it to me, but he has since forgotten doing that).

Over the years my husband has done some very damaging things -- for ex., he suggested that I abort our first child. I had a very difficult pregnancy and my father was critically ill for much of it and my husband simply couldn't deal with my emotional needs. He refused to talk about it with me and decided that the "real" problem was that I simply didn't want the baby! So voila -- abortion was his answer. I was devastated. This child is now a wonderful 13 year old. But after he was born my husband decided I loved our son so much that I didn't love HIM anymore. As in, for the past 13 years. He just shared that information with me a year ago.

During my second pregnancy I had a cancer scare. He refused to discuss that as well, didn't want to attend medical appointments with me and when I went into shock in a medical office parking lot he tried to leave me there because he needed to get back to the office! He doesn't remember doing most of these things. It's called dissociation.

Our youngest son (9) has recently been diagnosed bipolar and has had a pretty difficult life. I am dealing with this on my own. For years my husband refused to acknowledge there was anything wrong with our son -- and even if he really believed that 3-hour rages were normal I'm not sure how he could have ignored my emotional state over it -- but now that we finally have dignosis and our son has been in treatment for 18 months, my husband has never met nor spoken to the doctors and won't discuss what's happening with me either "because he can't talk to me about anything." I make all decisions about treatment and am the only one knowledgeable about what is going on with our son. My attempts to discuss this with him have caused enormous fights. Finally my therapist and my son's docs told me to stop trying. I must simply do what my son needs and try to let go of hoping my husband will participate because it is not MY responsiblity to make HIM be responsible. This is hard to do because it affects my child adversely, but I have taken their advice. So now my husband accuses me of "keeping secrets." He knows when every appointment is and I have given him all the doctor's phone numbers.

A year ago he decided he was in love with another woman -- and she didn't even know about it. He did try to "start" a relationship with her. When I found out about their "innocent" lunch he tearfully admitted all to me -- how he felt they shared a special bond, and that he loved her. I told him all contact with this woman (a friend of mine, to boot) must stop, but he did continue to contact her (she gave me the heads up). Even his own therapist told him this was infidelity. But my husband has decided it wasn't because he didn't have sex with her, therefore I have no right to be angry. Beside, who could blame him for wanting to be with another woman? (His explanation to the marriage counselor was that the other woman reminded him of me. So I guess I'm supposed to be flattered? That was the extent of our discussion on that subject in counseling.) Hard to deal with under any circumstances but this all happened just 4 weeks after telling me he loved and adored me (in front of his therapist!) and wanted to fix our marriage. Go figure. Furthermore he admitted to me lately that he figured I'd been unfaithful to him years ago. No particular smoking gun. He just knew I was unhappy and figured I must have. I've never so much as looked at another man (though considering all of this I suppose I could say, who could blame me if I did? -- but that's just not me).

The reason I am going on here is that these are some of the big examples of the problems I live with on a daily basis. They have caused me to have such anger and resentment toward my husband that I figure my life will be better without him. I realize he has problems. It is difficult because I made a marriage vow I took very seriously. And if he had a physical ailment -- leukemia, say -- I wouldn't just throw in the towel and say I can't do this. But I don't think I can handle this. Although I can't say I love him anymore, I do feel an obligation for the sake of our kids and simply for fairness to TRY to resolve these problems, if only to have a better divorce if we can't stay married.

I'm left with the creepy feeling that I've been fired from a job without ever knowing what I did wrong. Although in this case I guess I'm quitting because I have no idea what else I'm supposed to do. As you can probably imagine I have tried to talk about these problems for years -- til I am blue in the face and percieved as a total shrew. Predictably my husband, who also can't deal with anger, can't deal with discussing the problems. And now I'm with a marriage counselor who doesn't see a need to discuss them either.

This suits my husband just fine. He says I only want to find somebody who will blame him for everything. And since this counselor doesn't believe in delving into the past he uses this as proof that I'm the one who really can't deal with marriage counseling. I have explained to her that for me it is as though we have come to the doctor with a terminal patient (the dying marriage) -- and perhaps this patient should be removed from life support -- but instead of carefully examing what is wrong with the patient she wants us to focus on how to live a healthier life. In the meantime the patient is simply dying and when I try to redirect the discussion to the patient I am looked at as being uncooperative. At which point my husband got angry at me for calling HIM a terminal patient because he's NOT mentally ill -- he missed the point entirely. When I asked the counselor to confirm what I actually said, her response was that she wouldn't "take sides."

I have an excellent counselor of my own as well as a friend who is a therapist. They have both told me they disagree with this woman's approach and that it is actually harmful for me to continue on with her. But what now? My husband says that he doesn't want to see somebody else because in his mind it is a witch hunt -- I won't be satisfied until I find somebody to "take my side and blame him for everything" and he has no interest in that.

Have any of you dealt with this before? And how? What do I do now? Just give up? That seems so wrong.

Dear Carol,

Present time therapy can work quicker than therapy based upon the past.

The question is, how can you work with this present-time marriage therapist?

Recap: Your 9 year old son is Bi-polar. Your 13 year old son is OK. Married 15 years. Your husband has a depressive, anxiety disorder, and avoids discomfort.

My wife was always upset for several days after any session. A week if the counselor hit home. You can find several threads where the couple went to counseling, and broke up after one or a few sessions. My rules for counseling were to never criticize my spouse directly, and allow my spouse to decide what got brought up. I would criticize the counselor directly, if the counselor came up with an idea that I thought was wrong, or even if I was just uncomfortable with the counsleor's idea. Self-Improvement courses are less risky as far as losing your marriage. Any self-improvement courses that might tie in with your job?

It sounds like you should not pay too much attention to what your husband says. It sounds like your husband keeps secrets, and uses infomration for his own purposes.

It sounds like you need to work around your husband most of the time, but be ready for him to come back in, and get involved.

What changes would you like to see in your husband at this time? It sounds like your husband has failed to meet a number of your expectations. What expectations do you think are important now?

I used to welcome the marriage counselor to be wrong. That gave me a chance to express my ideas of what was right, without directly criticizing my spouse. If the mariage counsel said I was uncooperative, I just remained silent, with a plesant look, because I had already nailed the counselor good, and made my point, and my spouse had heard me, and the counselor had no real come back.

Bi-polar is often an inability to make independent judgements. The inabiity comes from other significant persons being perceived as overpowering. Is there a way to assist your 9 year old son to exercise more independent judgement? To learn to give appolice courteous answer, withoug fully agreeing to buy into what is being sold?

In what ways does your husband avoid dealing with unpleasant matters? To evaluate your husband's depression, I would suggest the book Science of Survival, by L. Ron Hubbard, ($55.00)

I suggest parenting courses more than marriage counseling.

Have you suggested taking any parenting courses? My wife and I always got along better after taking a parenting course. Have you gotten any dates that the classes are offered? Classes usually last 6 weeks, one night a week. Try Churches, Schools, School Board offices, Private schools, Department of Social Services. Husbands sometimes need to feel like they have some measure of control in parenting decisons, or they get crabby.

Here is an article on an approach to involving a spouse more in parenting decisions:

Article on Coordinating Parenting Strategies

In order to achieve this balance, I would first sit down with my spouse and each of us would write a list of behaviors we wish to change in our teen, beginning with what we feel are the most urgent. Next I would take the items we are in agreement on and take a critical view of their priority. For instance, say you both hate the way he dresses but you both know he needs to attend school, refrain from drugs and alcohol, immediately cease being verbally or physically abusive. Getting the problems on paper helps to set your priorities. Yes, pants that hang off the end of his butt are repugnant to say the least, however, this just means you won't take him out with you in public unless he dresses properly. His mode of dress should obviously not be given the energy you should learn to reserve for managing the more serious behaviors.

After setting the priorities we are in agreement upon, my spouse and I should then tackle the behaviors where we conflict. This can be tough, so I'd suggest getting tubs of your favorite ice cream, and sitting at a candle lit table in order to relax the atmosphere. There is an excellent web site on my links page called Re-Evaluation Counseling. This is a terrific resource for learning deep communication skills and I highly advise making the effort to go through each step. You may find amazing reasons why your spouse feels the way he/she does about your areas of parental conflict. You will be able to empathize with his/her feelings and in turn you both will be more able to find a compromise.

Next, you should prepare a list of logical consequences. One parent I know assigns the duty of daily toilet and bathroom cleaning for the offense of "potty mouth". If your teen is found to be secreting away drugs, paraphernalia, or alcohol in his/her room, you can take away their privacy by removing their bedroom door. Choose your consequences carefully, they must make sense to you, your spouse and your teen, and they must be followed through. Nothing will lose you ground faster than backpeddling on the consequences. When your teen argues, do not sway from the consequences. If your teen has a legitimate grievance have them discuss it with your spouse IN YOUR PRESENCE, and then discuss the problem with your spouse IN PRIVATE. Once you have discussed the problem and reached an agreement then you can sit down and discuss your decision with your teen. Do not back down on the decision you and your spouse reached in private, and never, ever hide your teen's behaviors from each other.

Remember that troubled teens need to see healthy, stable relationships. Be affectionate with each other, joke, tickle, and even "smooch" in front of your teen. Remember to do these things with your teen too, even if they say "eeeeeewww!!" they still need to know that in spite of everything you still love them.

END OF ARTICLE

Postng is Therapeutic

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, still struggling

<small>[ November 19, 2003, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Carol,
I'm sorry you are going through this and I can't give much advice on your situation. I can give you a little help on your question on counciling.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She doesn't want to talk about our past problems. Her feeling is we must find ways to communicate, to move forward. She doesn't want us to spend time "disagreeing" in her office as it is a waste of all our time. (I think she should see the dynamic and hear the problems!) She won't talk to us individually. She keeps on making suggestions about how to spend more time together to strengthen the marriage/family </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Check out http://www.divorcebusting.com. Also look into the book Divorce Busting by Michele Weiner Davis. She talks about "Solution-Oriented Brief Therapy" Which sounds alot like what you are discribing in your counselor.
There is also a section in the book about choosing a counselor.
Remember the Counselor works for you. Just like anyone you hire, You have to hire who you want and someone who does things the way you want.

Thanks for both responses. As for the first response, I guess I have a problem when I'm told that I just have to ignore what my husband says (and therefore does?) and work around him. How does that build a good and trusting relationship? I go to counseling with a man who isn't honest with himself, much less with the counselor. But since she doesn't know about the history, she thinks we are on a level playing field, which we most definitely are not.

My own therapist likens it to going to counseling with an alcoholic. Until they admit the problem to themselves nothing can change. My husband alternately admits and denies he has a problem -- but, in any event, on the days where he has admitted the problem (his mental illness) to me he still insists that it has nothing to do with the problems between us. In other words, OKAY, so I DO have a drinking problem, but it doesn't in any way affect my marriage. NOT!

Anyway, as for parenting courses. My husband does love our kids but can't deal with much of the parenting responsibility. He thinks if he works hard and provides the paycheck, that is the real measure of his worth. There's no way he'd think he needs parenting courses -- he won't even acknowledge that he has a problem in this area. Furthermore, I don't think that is what is needed either. His denial doesn't spring from ignorance of good parenting techniques. Of course, everyone can benefit from outside advice. Which is why I take classes and volunteer at the school and go to the appointments and see a therapist and am part of a support group -- I can't imagine what more I can do, and according to all the professionals I am dealing with, neither can they.

My son is another issue. He is doing well now with medication and therapy and with the systems I have tried to put in place for him, both in and out of school. I regret that I waited so long to get this sort of help for him and I bear a lot of anger toward my husband on this matter as he put up enormous roadblocks for me in getting this care -- told me I was pathologizing our son, that even his family told him it was all my fault (and bipolar runs in his family!), that if I were only stricter, more lenient, more flexible, more consistent, more punitive, more understanding, etc., none of these things would be going on. In other words, my husband blamed everything on me (while at the same thing saying that nothing was really wrong), as though he had no part in raising this child.

If only I had listened to my inner voice instead of worrying about the damage that might be done to my marriage by not giving in to that awful denial, I could have saved my son from years of pain. But what is done cannot be undone and I am finally doing what I have to now. And frankly, I'm very proud of what I have accomplished with him. So, though I appreciate the concern about my son, I think I've got that under control -- at least as much as anybody can control it.

As for both responses -- I need to clarify that I'm not sure I want my husband back. I certainly don't want to continue a relationship with him under these circumstances and he shows no real sign of changing. In fact, the independent counselor who evaluated both of us (he's not local, so not an option for couples work) already told me that it is unlikely my husband will ever be able to meet my needs and that he is only likely to thrive in a relationship where the other person is as emotionally remote as he is . . . So, I'm pretty resigned to the inevitability of breakup. I would like some sense of resolution, especially since we will need to continue parenting together, but I don't know if that's possible. With a competent third party who is willing to deal with the past perhaps it is. But our couselor never even suggested topics for conversation. Each week she would simply look at us and ask what we wanted to talk about, which lead to months of discussion on how to schedule our weekend time with the kids. Which would have been great if that had been a source of trouble for us. But on one weekend something went wrong, my husband mentioned the conflict, and from that point on that is ALL we discussed in counseling. Ever. For months. Which is what led her to suggest spending more time as "a family." So, more time together being unhappy over unresolved problems. I just don't get it.

I know I'm ranting, but I still would love to wrap my head around this. Going to see another counselor is definitely my choice, but my husband, who is so angry at me for thinking he is "defective" (his words, not mine), is seemingly not inclined since he feels we have already done that and it simply didn't work. Well, he says it was working for him, which I don't doubt. He really doesn't want to deal with the past. So, where does that leave me? Unless both people are satisfied with the counselor it's no good, but he doesn't seem to think that way.

Interestingly, my husband has been in cognitive therapy for two years. In that he deals with all his "defective" thinking -- talks all about the things that have happened and how they have made him feel and how he can reframe those feelings and events so that he can get past feeling he IS defective. How he can find this approach so appropriate in one venue, but not in another boggles my mind. Except that he hasn't talked to his own therapist about many of the problems we have had. So even there he keeps secrets.

Dear Carol,

Sorry for your difficulties and dilemnas.

I usually post to help couples stay together. I struggle to find new ways to make my own marriage work, and I am always looking for new ways to make my marriage better.

I suggested paying less attention to your husband's words, and more attention to the realities of situation. You pointed out that this is not the ideal desirable approach. If a spouse is not going to be truthful, then, to make the marriage work, indicators other than the spouse's words need to be used to get effective communication. The untruthfulness may be a sufficient reason to give up on the marriage, and I would understand that decision.

Untruthfulness comes in a variety of packages. I recommended the book Science of Survival, which has a category in the Chart of Human Evaluation, which is called Hndling of Truth. That shows taht Covert Hostility, 1.1 handles the truth throuogh elaborate contrivances, mixed with some reality.

You mention that your husband is able to turn his family against you. Sneaky people, 1.1 Covert Hostility have been real difficult for me to handle. Theycome on like they are your best friend, but the information that comes back to me from others, shows that the sneaky person is really putting me down with inuendos.

Therapy with a sneaky person is difficult, because the sneaky person specilaizes in shifting the target away from himself.

Is your husband being sneaky and manipulative? The motivations underlying sneaky people are fairly easy to understand. They are artfully stabbing you in the back, every chance they get. See the chapter on the Science of Survival Tone Scale, 1.1, Covert Hostility.

I have spent 3 decades, on and off, working to improve my understanding of how to deal with sneaky people. There are a few rules I have developed for myself.

I am ordinarily an open and helpful kind of person. A soft touch, really. The rules for dealing with sneaky backstabbers is to minimize the information you give to them, double-check behind anything that they tell you, and keep a few steps ahead of them in their relations with other significant people, like doctors and relatives.

Easier said than done.

Some other rules for sneaky people, don't let them know that you are on to them. Just smile, politely, and act like you are stupid, and have no idea of what they are saying behind your back. Do not talk to sneaky people about any complex ideas, or new approaches. Sneaky people have a lot of lies stacked up, and new ideas means they have to go back and review all their previous lies, which is a lot of reviewing, terrifying.

The message of sneaky people is that bad things happen to good people. A good response to anything they say, is, "Well you certainly can't be too careful these days." Basically sneaky people are in Fear, and are afraid. Their hope is by pointing out the bad things in others, that they will be safe. Actually their vision of their reality is that they have received a death sentence, and they are smoking their last cigarrette, with the firing squad loading their guns. Since there will be no tomorrow, any lies to distract others is logical. Even if lies will be discovered within one hour, the lie must be artfuly fabricated. Creating chaos is their objective.

I would prefer to be wrong about your husband being a sneaky person. I can go on about sneaky people for 10 more pages.

Quipper is my name for making up quick phrases.

What prhases could we use with your marriage counselor? One way to reveal your husband to your counselor, is to talk about fears. Your husband will reveal himself by chimning in, "Yeah, that's right!" Make up things you are afraid of. The more stupid the better, so your counselor will see your husband identifies with fear.

"You know, I was getting in my car, and I slipped, and I almost broke my leg! I really have to be more careful!" "I'm really worried about the water these days. There is no way to know what the workers in the filtration plant are doing. I'm just terrified every time take a sip of water!"

The next up from fear is resentment and Anger. If you can get your husband working more into resentment and anger, that would be therapeutic for him. "Doesn't it bother you that taxes are so high?" "Doesn't the traffic really make you angry?"

You are correct that it is difficult to work with confronting the lies of a sneaky person. They just tell more lies, or get angry.

I have been fooled by a sneaky person using anger as a front. Really he was firghtened, and I did not pick up on it.

I have never really tried to help a sneaky person. I just shine them on, and work around them. Thenice thing about sneaky people is taht they don't have very much power.

The closure that might work for you is to confrim that your husband is a sneaky person, and resolve to work around him. Whether it be in marriage or divorce of divorced parenting. You have to double-check anything a sneaky person tells you.

Wish I was wrong. Post what you try with your marriage counselor, and we can come up with more strategies and phrases.

If you want your husband to do something, try, "We need to do A, because I am afraid that C might occur, then D would be caused, and then E would soon follow, and that would be terrible. So we better do A. If we don't throw this old jar of jelly away, gas might form, and someone might open the jar, and over-pressurize the house, and cause the roolf to blow off. That would be terrible to have the roof blown off the house!

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, still struggling.

<small>[ November 20, 2003, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Maybe these two articles can be of some help,,
if you're there to save your marriage, going to the past is not the way to go. Giving the couples the actual tools, is whats needed.

www.smartmarriages.com/badcouples.doherty.html


http://www.smartmarriages.com/hazardous.html

stever
I'm still STANDING!!! in Michigan

www.rejoiceministries.org

Thanks again for the responses.

Quipper, I hear what you are saying about sneakiness, but I don't really think my husband fits quite into that category. I've always described him as peddling as fast as he can just to keep up. He is overwhelmed by his own internal turmoil and, though he is very good at concealing it in more superficial realtionships, he simply cannot handle confrontational demands, which makes him go into hiding. This has had disastrous effects in many areas of his life -- employment, fiscal, emotional. But since the primary motivation for him is to conceal his shame (this from his therapist) he has gone to great lengths to rationalize his behaviors so that he doesn't actually have to deal with them. Regardless of his motivations, the outcome looks much the same -- as though he cannot be trusted. But I believe the lies and half-truths and twisted conculsions, etc., are mostly contrived to convince himself he's okay. I just happen to be in the shooting range.

Yet everything you say about how to work around him feels so manipulative. I don't mean that as a criticism. In fact I'm hearing this a lot lately -- how I need to protect myself from him emotionally, financially, and so on, even to the point of not trying to find employment right now so as to put myself in better standing for child support, or to ask for payment off the books so he won't be able to trace it. To do these sorts of things feels just as "sneaky" as what he does. I'm finding that the process of separation/divorce almost guarantees that you won't ever work things out -- you immediately retreat to your corner to try and protect yourself, which is no way to resolve a problem.

As for present-based therapy versus delving into the past, I guess I'd say if the past IS the present, what does one do? The examples in my first post are simply that -- examples of emotional remoteness that continue on to this day. But they are also examples of a mental health problem that has not been adequately addressed. Even if I could find a therapist who could hand me a set of tools for repair, I would still look at the vehicle and say, But I don't think it's sound. Sure, you can make it look good, but if the frame is compromised, then what do you do? I guess I need to know that the frame is okay in order to believe the repairs are worthwhile or that they will even take. Believe me, I've heard on NUMEROUS occassions from my husband how sorry he is and how he has "admitted to alot." To which I can only say that sorry buys you a second chance -- it's not a way of life. And that I don't need him to admit anything to me -- we both know what has happened. I need to know WHY it has happened -- for him to acknowledge both to me and himself what has happened and why so that it won't ever happen again. And even if that could happen in therapy, I don't know if it could make me want to continue on as his wife. At least we might be able to have a civil divorce.

But these are both moot points now, I guess. First, I asked him to move out last summer (and he agreed at the time, but then never left and never said a word to me about it -- typical). But now he has decided he's leaving ME. Which is all semantics at this point -- you know, you can't fire me because I quit! Second, he thinks our therapist was just dandy and will likely refuse to see another just to please me -- after all, there is no pleasing me, you know. And even if he would agree, you all seem to be telling me that what I need from therapy isn't really healthy or useful. (Though I still wonder then why cognitive therapy is so useful for people). And finally, after reading those to articles (interesting, both of them), I'm pretty discouraged about finding a comepetent therapist anyway.

So, if you have anything to add to this, I'd love the perspective.

I don't see a problem with the counselor's approach. Delving into the past and what has been done in the past is not going to help anyone. It will only remind you of all the hatred, resentment, and bitterness that you feel for your husband. It will only make your husband feel like he's the scum of the earth in your eyes. There's nothing but negative in delving into the past like that. This kind of "counseling" makes things much worse.

A healthy way to approach things is to realize that you have never had control over what he thinks or does nor will you ever. Once you realize that, the next step is to give up trying to control him and focus on taking care of yourself (and not necessarily through divorce). The third step is to forgive the wrongs of the past and work on today and only today. You can't change the past but you can affect how you respond to today. Why not give it a try? Forget everything that happened before this very moment and seek what you need right now. As you seek what you need right now, the past will become irrelevant. That is where the counseling can help you. Tell husband how you feel (not angry...deeper than that), what you need from him, and ask him specifically for what you need today. Isn't that what you really want? For him to meet your needs?

For example: I appreciate that you work every day to provide for our needs. When you go to work to provide for our family, I feel that you care about meeting our financial needs. I have other needs also. I need you to be concerned for our son and be a partner with me in his medical care. It is difficult for me to shoulder this burden alone and I need your help. I want you to come to his appointments with me so you have a complete understanding of what is going on with him directly from the doctor. I want you to work with me on his future care. If you do not, I will assume that you do not want to be involved in his medical care and will make these decisions on my own. If you choose not to be involved, I need you to accept my decisions as the very best decisions I can make and not criticize my choices.

That is step 1...one need at a time. You can't do step 2 until you find out what his response is going to be. Then you need to express your feeling about his response, state your needs about that response, and set the next boundary.

Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud is a good book that describes how to set boundaries. It may be helpful to you. Another thing that may be helpful for you is to seek and attend a 12-step group. I do not know what is available in your area or which would be most appropriate for you but they can be very helpful in helping you get your focus off of him and his wrongs and onto taking care of yourself and your needs. He does not necessarily have to be gone (divorce) for you to be able to do that.

I set some boundaries with my husband. Some he has respected and met my needs in. Others are still in limbo...I brought them up about 2 months ago. I do not bring them up over and over to rehash things. He knows what I need and will make his decision. In the meantime, I work on other issues, knowing that the others will either resolve themselves or be brought up again when it is the right time. I am currently living happily together with my husband who expressed 3 weeks ago that he wanted a divorce. He is thinking it over and plans to make a decision mid-January. I'm not anxious about it at all. That is because I am taking care of myself and my needs, setting my boundaries, and trusting God with the rest.

Oh, I forgot to explain the counselor's role in this. Her job would be to witness your communication of your needs, help clarify what you mean, help your husband understand your expressed need, help negotiate how to get that need met, and to keep everyone accountable to the agreement set.

Dear Caorl,

So now your husband has left. Can you give a few more details about that? Does he have an appartment? Did he move in with relatives?

If I am wrong that your husband is not a sneaky person, I appoligise. I find it distasteful to work around people, as I normally like to be up front. I am not yet convinced by what you tell me that he is not sneaky. I will drop that idea for now, but, even though it is distasteful, I still suggest keeping the idea of sneaky on the back burner, to see if it seems t fit upon further percolation.

Are you going to continue with the present time therapist?

You say your husband has trouble confronting things. What things do you feel it is important to confront?

How long do you plan to wait to file for child support?

I suggested some phrases for the therapist about fear. Do you have any ready for her?

What about phrases fro faiing to cnfront things?

"What my husband is failing to confront is.... That is causing difficulties D, E and F. My suggsetions for solving the problem are G H and I. We Need to get POJA on at least one possible solution, so we can get stared, and set a time to re-evaluate, to renew POJA, and look at the best options."

You mentioned his ideas on Other women. How is that going?

Recap: Asked husband to leave in July 03, husband left in 11/15/03, Married 15 years, 9 year old son, Bi-Polar, under treatment and meds, 13 YO son good. Husband has a persnality disorder and avoids discomfort. No job now. Some questons about other women. H fails to confront problems.

Blessings,

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, still struggling