This is the first time I have started a subject, and mostly I am trying to put some understanding in my heart. First, I find I am uncertain what happened with my wife, if she cheated, or did not. I don't really know who to believe anymore, and it is not of much importance. If she cheated, then I was in a part of making her feel she had no other path to fulfilling her need for love, because I had not been that fulfillment. I did not feel my needs were met either, so we both took the path of most destruction to our marriage. Now here is my delima, I want to find my way home, but every time we get close, we have another argument and some of the momentum gets lost. It is like being in a very dark forest, late at night trying to find your camp site home with a pen light. It is certainly out there, but do you find the bear or mountain lion or your save haven first. It is hard to keep looking when you are unsure what you will find. Fear of the unknown, and of being lost again keeps me from looking. So, how do I make the light brighter, or the forest less threatening. Well, maybe just stating the problem will help me figure the path out......thanks for lending me an ear. EICK<P>------------------<BR>Entangled<BR>

I'm glad you posted. <P>A few months back, that is how I felt - like the hope for a restored marriage was like a pinlight in a dark forest.<P>So - focus on that pinlight. Keep focusing on your goal. Do NOT lovebust. NO angry outbursts! If she has an angry outburst, then be very careful not to react. It takes two to argue. Take away the fuel, and the fire goes out.<P>You are the betrayer, and she may be a betrayer also? Does your wife know about your affair? <P>What are your needs? What are hers? Have you found anything that works?<P>

<BR>Mostly, this forum has been a means to try to say what we dould not, but she takes very insignificant items and turns them into excuses for jealous fits. I understand her need to be the way she is, but I don't want to experience much more of it. I don't generally respond to her yelling, but that only makes her madder. Your word betrayer is sort of inaccurate here. Even if she did not have an affair with a close friend of mine (which I strongly doubt) or the affair she denies in HI (I beleive her about this one, it sounds like a disgruntaled person rather than a lover) she has had plenty of emotional involvement (mostly phone sex and online sex), for which I take my share of the blame, and although she denies it, she got pregnant after we agreed to hold off having another child until we got our marriage straight. I guess what I am saying is betrayal takes on many faces. Our relationship was broken, and we both had a hand in that breaking. All excuses put aside, all blame unimportant, either we want to make it work together, or a single part of this union will be unable to accomplish the task. It may be that there is a strong element of control involved in her fits of anger. If that is the case, will things ever reach normal, or is this normal for her and is she adicted to the drama or can the same be said of me, after all I buy into the games. Sorry, I did not mean to go on so long, just needed to release these feelings, even if there are no answers. Thanks for listening, assuming you are listening, and thanks for just giving me space to vent. EICK

Sex online/phone sex by wife is definitely an affair, and you have been betrayed.<P>Her jealousy fits are maybe a means of control? And you are tired of it.<P>That is wonderful you do not react to it. Why is she picking on insignificant items to trigger her jealousy fits?<P>You both are not communicating? Have you tried the famous "I feel.... When..... I need" statements? Does that help at all?<P>You sound so frustrated, and you sound like you are considering throwing in the towel?<P>I'm sorry for "labeling" - I don't mean to offend, definitely. I am here and so are others - ready to help if possible, and definitely we are here to listen. Keep posting.

TNT, Thanks for putting a gentler spin on the way I am feeling. She is never going to admit she has any part of this problem even here where it is safe to do so. Maybe this is just not going to work. I tried putting my feeling down without a threat in the hope she would use this forum to do the same, but it has not worked out that way. I read her postings and come away feeling that she is seeking the means to point blame, and really it has given me the inappropriate freedom to answer her efforts at love busting with some of my own. I need to break the cycle today if I am to make any progress. I think she wants to work it out, but is unwilling to see my point of view, and respect my feelings. Let's hope I can find the path as it seems pretty lost just now. Thanks for the kind understanding and guidance. EICK

Dummy me, I just read your sunglasses. Yuck. What a mess.<P>Does your wife know about the job on the east coast? With her controling nature - what has been her take on relocation to the east coast? <P>Maybe she feels she has a "right" to have an affair because of your co-worker friend? <P>I am sorry that you accept blame so easily, that must stop. In all actuality, it bears no fruit to blame anyone at anytime. <P>Have you tried counseling for yourself, and have you tried the famous Plan A? It is sad that many of us that have been abused as children end up choosing controling spouses. Was she abused as a child as well? <P>Control is necessary to some victims of abuse because they have actually lost control at some point in their lives. It is really sad. Power and Control begat abuse, and it seems that this OM and your wife have taken the power and control and done this to you.<P>You need to take the power back in your relationship, but not through fighting or lovebusters. But through decision making for your life, and stop the blame game and lovebusters. The control and power are really given to the emotionally stronger spouse, and you can choose to be this person. Do this for YOU. You are a very sensitive man, and you are a prize. You need to believe in yourself again. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>So my only question is: Is reactive the best answer, or is it better to wait until the anger passes and act from the head rather than the heart? I know this is an odd question, but I don't fully understand the dynamics involved. Let me know what you think, thanks for the insight.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I like resolution to issues. So does he. He likes to have it his way, and quick. (Ha Ha). <P>But what I've learned - is what is the point of beating a dead horse? If you aren't getting anywhere, why keep up at the same grill? Like spinning tires in the mud. What is the point to keep hitting the gas?<P>So, first of all - resolve to quit that NONESENSE!!!! It is pointless. Put the unresolved issue on the shelf, just like you do a craft - take a little down at a time to deal with. It is manageable this way.<P>I like to sew - but sometimes I get so frustrated, and realize that if I put it away for a while, and do something else, I can come back to it with more clarity. Try this when you reach an impass with spouse.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>*******<BR>EICK,<BR>I have now discovered Love was blind is your wife. So now I have just a tad bit information on this situation?<P>#1. You BOTH need to stop blaming, and focus on the goal. You simply must. <P>Don't look behind you, or down at your feet. Look Ahead<P>#2. The lovebusting has to stop. You have agreed to do this, today, right? So, BOTH of you must stop ALL lovebusters.<P>#3. Don't throw in the towel, it seems very foolish when you are so close to having your marriage rebuilt.<P>#4. Regardless if the child was conceived with your blessings or not, once you see that child you will feel that child is the most beautiful person in the world. So, quit obsessing about this issue.<P>#5. NO CONTACT with the OW. If you do, you have made a poor choice. Your wife seems determined and strong enough to let you go, and then where will you be without those children? <P>#6. Commitment to honesty. No games on the forum, no name calling, no angry outbursts, no "knocking each other jokes", no treating each other with disrespect. This is very juvenile, and although we may be tempted to vent, it is a lovebuster. Especially with both of you on the forum.<P>#7. Be honest with all of us on the forum. <P>#8. Take your medication, both of you. Your best mental aptitude is what you need right now. Don't mess around with that! This is very serious.<P>#9. Decide you have a history together, a family together, and a future together. Do not let other people outside of your marriage ruin your lives for you. This is the ultimate in giving over power to others. You two are ONE in the sight of God, and you should be protecting each other and your marriage from anything that can harm it. It is the same for your child, right? You do not want anyone to harm your child? So you do not want anyone to harm this marriage. Treat this marriage as a fragile gift from God. <P>Learn to identify your emotions. Anger, Fear, love, excitement, jealousy. Identify and use the I feel statements to communicate them honestly with one another.<P>EICK, if you have been diagnosed bipolar, then I would like to see your wife in a spouses support group. I have a wonderful sister who is bi-polar. After they found the right meds for her she has no more episodes, and she lives a fantastic stable life, focused. She is a real brain. Bi-polar isn't bad if you are controlling it.<P>God Bless you both. <p>[This message has been edited by trustntruth (edited August 31, 1999).]

thank you, tnt. <BR>things were getting pretty tense this morning. I have a strong suspicion that it is because tonight's the night he is supposed to come home. Point of no return, so to speak, and it is very stressful for both of us: I THINK he's afraid of my temper, i'm afraid he's still very involved with OW.<BR>tough place to be.<P>------------------<BR>for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, till death do us part.<P><BR>