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#64028 01/08/02 06:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 196
J
jack218 Offline OP
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OP Offline
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 196
I just found out my wife of 23 years has been ahving an affair for 2 years.
I guess I am just a guy like any guy, struggling along through life trying to make the most of it, trying to make it better and trying to stay out of and away from trouble. I have some rules I live by, picked up along the way I guess, that seemed to serve me pretty well, a good head on my shoulders too, but nothing was enough to completely insulate me from this harm. Some harm you cause yourself, some others cause you, but it comes along either way and you have to deal with it. It is hard for me to feel that I haven&#8217;t failed in some way when things don&#8217;t turn out according to plan. It seems you only have two choices, blame someone else, or accept the blame yourself. I guess one of my rules has been to accept responsibility, so when I don&#8217;t get the job I want, or someone hurts me in some way, I say it was my failure not the other person&#8217;s and accept the responsibility.<p>Another rule is never to hurt anyone else. Somehow I always seemed to think from an early age that there were many different paths to happiness but that none of them would take you anywhere if you had to hurt other people along the way or go forward at someone else&#8217;s expense. I have always been competitive at games but never much at life. Beating people always made me feel bad and not good unless it was a card game. Maybe I need to be more selfish but I guess I really don&#8217;t think it would bring me happiness. A friend once asked me what I did that was just for me, I said I couldn&#8217;t think of anything.<p>Maybe I try too hard to be nice because deep down inside I think I am not nice or not good I don&#8217;t know. I wonder why people like me, and yet I would wonder just as much if they didn&#8217;t. Even with respect to people who love me, I think I love them much more. It would be nice if I could think that someone else possessed the level of adoration for me that I possess for him or her. It is almost like all the people in my life are movie stars and I am their fan, loving them and adoring them but they don&#8217;t know it. They just see my clapping and hear me cheering them on. They are happy I am there but they do not clap for me. <p>I may not be very good at accepting love either. If someone wants to visit me or spend time with me or have me as a friend I tend to think it is because I cheer them with my humor or boost them with my optimism or comfort and reassure them if they have problems. In other words they don&#8217;t really like me, just my effect or entertainment value. The minute I wasn&#8217;t there to support them, they would leave me like a hot potato. Believe me it has happened. Maybe I am just a clown, amusing and entertaining, or a wit who fascinates and puts on a show. Where does this leave me ? With an audience who is made happy but does not really love me. Pretty soon they need a new act. <p>I wonder if I get a weird sense of satisfaction out of some sort of false sense of martyrdom. Maybe it makes me feel Christ-like to know that a friend would betray me for silver or deny he knows me three times before the **** crows to save his skin. What does it do for me to know that if one guy had to be burned at the stake I would step forward to save everyone else ? Why can&#8217;t I say screw everyone else just like they would screw me ? And do I really know this at all or would I really say burn the other guy not me please. I loved the movie Spartacus where the Romans were searching for him to crucify him and all of his friends stood up and said &#8220;I&#8217;m Spartacus.&#8221; Does anyone love me like that or would they all point at me and say, &#8220;He&#8217;s Spartacus.&#8221; I saw that movie as a child and many times since and always get teary eyed at that part. Please God send me a friend like Spartacus had. <p>But this gets me nowhere. At best I feel isolated and alone, at worst uninterested in living any longer. So what&#8217;s the point ? Somehow thinking that you would do more for others than they would do for you cuts two ways, it can make you feel like a better person than they are, or one who is simply not as worthy. You either need new friends who are as good as you, or new friends who are as low as you, but either way you probably need new friends. Sometimes I just feel so screwed over I can&#8217;t believe it. Which is better, to feel like you have been screwed or feel like you have screwed yourself ? Either way you are screwed.<p>I am frustrated when people don&#8217;t share my core values, I mean I am not talking about routine differences of opinion, disagree there all you want, but people who are racists, or unjust, or dishonest make me scratch my head and think what the hell is the matter with those people ? How can they be so cruel ? <p>I have a problem like this in my relationship with Mary, the woman I love. She cheated on me repeatedly over a lengthy period of time but didn&#8217;t think it was so bad while it was happening, not enough to stop anyway, only that it was found out and hurt me. She even said &#8220;I learned a lot from that man.&#8221; I am thinking what exactly did she learn ? How to lie? How to betray ? How to deceive? How to sneak around? How to park your car in alleys and behind tall fences so it won&#8217;t be seen? How to defile the marriage you value? How to whisper when I came into the room? How to destroy the person you love most in the world? Valuable lessons no doubt. Differences like these are hard for me to accept.<p>I also see the guy she was with as an opportunistic low life with a bad history of doing the same thing previously who exploited a kind person&#8217;s vulnerability as well as the weakness and doubt we all experience from time to time in relationships to get what he wanted even though it meant hurting other people. To me every relationship has cracks and fissures that can be exploited by someone intent in doing so. Hell, even a diamond can be split if you tap it in the right place. Of course she sees the guy as a kind gentle sensitive soul whose only weakness was his irresistible attraction to her and his acute loneliness and lack of meaningful love. Never mind all his other romances, she was his only true love she thinks. Never mind how willingly he hurts others to get what he needs. Never mind that as soon as he was exposed he slinked off like a scared rat without so much as a peep never to be heard from again. Doesn&#8217;t sound like something someone would do for the only woman in his entire life he really loved. What no duel? I have seen him put up more of an argument over what kind of beer to drink. He is probably already telling his new girlfriend that he has never had a love like her before. I&#8217;ll tell you this, the guy has had several relationships with married women and I would bet half of everything I own that there were others I don&#8217;t know about. I would bet the other half that there will be more.<p>But Mary has to believe his bull**** or she feels worse about what she did.
I tried buying into this thinking I really did. If he is a selfish low life rat than I really wasted my time, I guess the thinking goes, and it makes what I did dumber. But wait a minute, don&#8217;t you feel better if your diamond necklace gets stolen by a professional jewel thief than if you leave it in a public restroom? Its back to blaming yourself or blaming someone else I guess. I tend to blame myself but it sure would make me feel better and perhaps less culpable if I knew I was helped to my errant ways by a genuine pro slime. <p>So where does this leave Charley? Do Mary and I just agree to disagree? Besides how far do you go with condemning the other guy and saying how cheap this whole thing was before Mary starts condemning and cheapening herself? You want to think that she can recognize the guy as a bad actor with a history and herself as just another willing albeit culpable victim. Can we ever get back to being on the same page again when we have such a different viewpoint about something that affected us so much? Should I be thinking, hey, consider him Albert Schweitzer if you like, as long as you choose to be with Charley that is all that matters to me? Maybe I should want her to think he is Albert Schweitzer, shouldn&#8217;t that make me feel better to be the selected one than if I were chosen over Charles Manson? I just don&#8217;t know how to sort this out; I guess it is not mine to sort out anyway.<p> Mary and I have together for a long time. Well past the moon eyed staring stage anyway. But deeply committed, truly in love. I guess she knew that because the most amazing thing is that she always remained in love with me throughout the whole time she was having an affair and told the other guy she could and would never leave me. Go figure. But if that ain't love what is ? <p>And our love life was great too, turns out, according to her, it was even better than sex with the other guy. Sounds like she is just being kind but I really believe it. Truth is it is kind of hard to imagine anything better than when we are really making love. I have always thought it is the pinnacle of sensual love and caring. This doesn't mean I couldn't be thrilled by a hot babe but not in the same way. Maybe that is how she felt. <p>Maybe it is nothing more than the difference between a flash bulb and a sun rise. One is bright and blinding and lasts a second. The other is glowing softly, can be taken in, and lasts a long time. One is both artificial and superficial, the other genuine and meaningful. Most people would prefer a sunrise on the beach but after a lifetime of those how exciting is it compared to walking down a runway with flash bulbs popping ? Don't know the answer to that one. Don't want to know maybe. <p>Of course if someone said you could have a lifetime of flash bulbs but no more sunrises you'd take the sunrises. But what if someone said you could have both for a while ? What if you said that to yourself ? Maybe that is how she felt. Maybe it is even less of a gamble if you know that the sunrise will always be there no matter what you do. You can count on it. <p>I think back sometimes on my own reaction when she told me about the affair. It was kind of like, so, what do you want to do about it ? There was never any question that I would leave, my commitment was as automatic as the sunrise. Turns out I guess that hers was too. She ended it right there, said goodbye the next morning and never spoke to the guy again. Closed the book and never looked back. Sunrises for ever ? <p>I know these things are not based in logic or even common sense but I keep falling into the trap of trying to figure them out that way. Spock: It is not logical Captain that someone would turn their back on true love and commitment and hurt the person they love the most for superficial cheap thrills. McCoy: Spock you idiot ! Human beings have emotions and love pleasure, it is not logical to pump coins into a slot machine or clog your arteries with butterfat but we like the thrill, the pleasure, and even the risk and the danger is exciting, something you Vulcan computer heads will never understand ! Spock: (raises one eyebrow puts finger on chin, hmmmmmm) <p>Truth is that I am able to process and accept the past maybe more than the present. Now perhaps is the appropriate time for logic. Interesting word, appropriate. Darling, you are acting inappropriately, yes I know and I am very sorry, ok then shall we be appropriate from now on, of course we shall, fine then. <p>
So I guess it is really the present that burns me now, Mary's current view of the thing is what probably drives me a little nuts. Be patient I tell myself, it is too soon, Mary will hate you if you try to force her to agree with your view of the world, she has to get there herself and may never get there at all. And what if she doesn't ? You say she is not being dopey to piss you off, people are allowed to be wrong, don't take it personally when they don't agree with you even if its about something so significant to you. After all, Christians marry Jews and live happily ever after. So believe what you want, Mary, you have just as much chance of being right as I do. Don&#8217;t see it my way, maybe you never will and don&#8217;t have to in the end I guess. <p>Even when I try focus on the emotional side of things it still doesn&#8217;t ring true with me. Sure enough I can appreciate how nice it must feel emotionally to get so much attention and caring. But here&#8217;s
the deal: The other guy was married to a fat unattractive royal ***** that insulted him in public and hadn&#8217;t made love to him in years. Then along comes Mary, one of the most beautiful graceful creatures God ever created, caring, listening, sympathetic, and lets him into her bed for what must have been the best sex he ever had in his whole miserable life. Is there any question the guy would be absolutely riveted on her ? That he would focus on Mary like a laser and pay her more attention than he paid to anything in his life ? How does it flatter you when you have paid for the
compliment ?<p>Didn&#8217;t a husband who stuck by her for thirty years flatter Mary enough? Wasn&#8217;t she flattered by a guy who endured all her moods, all her faults, all her illnesses, all her insecurities, and all her needs? A guy who gave her everything he owned, everything he earned, and all the love and loyalty he had in the world. Yes, and even a guy who stood in hotel bars on business trips at happy hour surrounded by attractive women from all over the country telling jokes, buying drinks, getting bedroom looks and even a few phone numbers and room numbers along the way and said, no thank you. Doesn&#8217;t she think anyone ever made a pass at me? I am the guy who followed her to California, went back to college, and dragged himself to a desk job for 20 years so he could provide her a home and raise her children. Why was she not sufficiently flattered? Am I being self-righteous or stupid or both?<p>Maybe it is nothing more than self-pity. The injustice riles me to no end. I see myself coming home tired from work as Mary is out the door to meet her friend. I start on last night&#8217;s dinner dishes, move to the breakfast and lunch dishes, clean the whole kitchen, get the laundry going, cook dinner, and she is on her way, driving the Mercedes I bought for her to meet her paramour on the cabin I found for him, encouraged him to buy and helped him restore, when I wasn&#8217;t busy helping him through his divorce or supporting his children or inviting him to dinner. Dinner is waiting for everyone; it makes me want to scream. I think of how when Mary and I were falling in love that she didn&#8217;t want to have sexual intercourse for several years. This was the sixties and seventies! My friends were getting it left and right but I waited years out of respect for Mary. Then along comes a guy who wouldn&#8217;t wait five minutes and wants it on the first date, and suddenly its love! Spare me!<p>She had all that excitement and pleasure and self-gratification and all I have now is this awful suffering. I suffer, and I suffer, and suffer some more. I have been to a psychiatrist, a psychologist, a marriage counselor, a priest and a regular doctor. I have prescriptions for depression, anxiety, insomnia and high blood pressure. I am reading a dozen self help books, I am crying while I am driving cause I can&#8217;t do it at home, smoking like a chimney and feel like I am two puffs away from a stroke. But I can&#8217;t collapse; I have to clean up the mess they made out of our lives. <p>We went for a walk on the shore the other day and saw the other guy sitting on his cabin porch with his stoner buddy drinking a beer, relaxing in the cockpit like we have both seen him so many times. I thought, who is suffering the most now? Mary feels God awful terrible, I am hurting like a sore tooth, and this guy has probably compartmentalized the whole thing, grateful for what he had, knew it couldn&#8217;t last, smiling at the memory, embarrassed but what the hey, que sera sera, sharing a laugh and bowl of dope with his pal, another carefree idiot who has thinks women are toys to be enjoyed, is 50 years old and never made a lasting commitment to any of them. Funny thing is Mary liked this aspect of his personality, the ability to sail on without a care and leave your troubles behind. Maybe it is like the public&#8217;s admiration for a jewel thief. We know what they do is evil but there are so suave, unruffled and collected we think they are kind of cool and wish we could be like them. Meanwhile I am staggering along the shore with heart palpitations like a tormented, wounded, broken, desperate man. I am sure not cool. <p> I remember the last day I spoke to the other guy, I was just getting wise to what had happened and was looking for Mary. He had spent the afternoon, his last afternoon, thank God, with Mary and was sitting on his cabin porch having a cocktail and smoking a pipe full of dope. He offered to get me stoned. Bet he didn&#8217;t smoke a lot of dope with Mary. But I was envious that he had his own time, maybe catering to Mary was hard work. Day is done I thought I heard him thinking, now I can relax. Does Mary understand how easy it would be to give her one hundred per cent of yourself every minute you are with her if it amounts to only a few hours a week? How could she take much satisfaction from that compared to someone who gave her the whole package?<p>This is getting pretty stupid I guess. I mean I feel like I am trying to reason about someone who has a load of cocaine up her nose. I remember cocaine well, it has been 20 years since I had any but I have thought about it more than once during this ordeal. It made me feel joyous and wonderful about myself. I thought we were made for each other, the white powder and me. It seemed to bring out everything I liked about myself, my charm, my wit, my love of life, and my wild carefree side. It was a total escape from everything. If someone came up to me and said Charley don&#8217;t you realize that the wonderful way you feel is falsely induced and short lived, that it is not real, immoral, and actually harmful to you, I would have said who cares I still feel wonderful. Wonderful is wonderful isn&#8217;t it? Who cares how you get there or where you are headed? Maybe it is just that fine line, or parsing of words, that distinguishes the difference between saying it felt good from saying it was good. Cocaine was not good and is not good, neither is the other guy, but both are capable of making you feel good.<p>Which brings me to the present. I don&#8217;t look back at cocaine fondly. I guess I still suspect that Mary looks back at her affair fondly. Maybe that just takes time. What do I want Mary to say? She has already told me it was the worst thing she ever did, that she is deeply sorry and that she does not respect the other guy. How about if she says I realize that what I loved was the exhilaration of it all and not the other guy, and that I do not love him now and never will. Bingo! I am home free!
Big difference again between saying I have loved and do love you the most, and I have loved and do love only you. Magic words those will be if I ever hear them, magic magic words.<p>You know it is somewhat surprising to me that I am more hung about this than I am about the sexual aspects of what happened. I still get some nasty visual images of them lip locked and naked that I have to force out of my mind. I think of the other guy with his head buried between her thighs or thrusting away while she moaned. I guess knowing how passionate Mary is makes it worse. It helped me feel better when she told me he had sexual problems and was not the best of lovers. When I first asked her about the sex she said it was &#8220;stinky.&#8221; Strange choice of words for a hot affair I thought. But knowing Mary it didn&#8217;t really surprise me, she always preferred the romantic aspects to the orgasms, I think, and no doubt it was romantic. But I grieve nonetheless. The great privilege of being Mary&#8217;s only sexual partner was treasured by me; it was such a special source of pride and uniqueness. What an honor it was. Even though I have had more experience than Mary it was so long ago that I can&#8217;t even imagine the delight of sex with another partner. I hate the fact there is the other reference point now, who kisses the best, who hugs the best, who excites the most, and on and on. There is an old song about a woman who cheats on her man but comes back to him and every time they make love he says, open your eyes because he is afraid that if she closes them she will be imagining the other guy. I hope this has and will never happen but there is nothing I can do about it. Now I have to forget the honor of being Mary&#8217;s only partner and let it go and replace it with the honor of being chosen today and chosen tomorrow and chosen forever. This is no small honor to me, however, no small honor at all. Mary could have any partner she wanted. <p> I asked Mary on the first day I think what in retrospect sounds like a stupid desperate question, from a helpless wounded fool. I asked whether there were any parts of our sexual life that were exclusively ours and she said yes. Why it mattered other than the fact it was coming from such a bruised soul I don&#8217;t know. One day when she was making love to me orally and she said, unsolicited, that this was special to us. I didn&#8217;t know what to think but I liked hearing it. At first blush it sounded impossible, I mean once your clothes are off how do you draw lines. It seemed like saying you can kiss my left breast but not my right breast. But maybe Mary wanted to keep something off limits; maybe she wanted to preserve something as just between us I think. Plus, one major aspect of the affair was that Mary called the shots and was the dominant one in control. So maybe she got the oral sex and didn&#8217;t give it. If it&#8217;s true, fine, if not, then Mary told a white lie to make me feel better. Either way it&#8217;s nice of her. So who the hell cares? Besides, I think I care more that she smiled at him, or held him close, and desired him, than I care that she made love to him. God hates the eagerness to sin more than the sin itself I have read. There I go comparing myself to God again. <p>I don&#8217;t know whether it is my pride and shame, my jealousy, or just the raw pain of knowing there is another man out there who can look at me and say I had your wife, she lied to you to see me, and panted for me and probably wishes she were with me now and would be if you hadn&#8217;t found out. Maybe that is why so many people get killed in these situations, just knowing they are alive is painful. Maybe people figure, OK I&#8217;ll go to jail and that will be painful but it can&#8217;t be as bad as this pain so I&#8217;ll do violence. Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I am not and have never wanted to do violence in regards to this. No way. <p>I keep thinking also, that this thing will get out eventually, like all secrets do. He&#8217;ll tell a buddy who&#8217;ll tell his wife and she&#8217;ll tell a friend and we&#8217;ll have round two on hands, dealing with the public scandal. God I hope not. It would also bugs me that the other guy probably thinks Mary loved him and will treasure this memory. Of course she could fix that one for me real easy but I doubt I could ask. <p>It is troubling to me also that Mary sold herself so short. I mean here is someone licking her, and groping her and entering her and the only price he has to pay is to show up and receive the gifts. No commitment, no lifetime of devotion, no undying love, and no loyalty. I wonder if Mary thinks or cares that she was the only woman in his life during their affair. I happen to know she wasn&#8217;t but I&#8217;ll bet she would never believe it. Her giving of herself to this guy was like selling the crown jewels at a yard sale. Free gold and diamonds for everyone, must bring own carrying bag however. Sweet precious Mary, you deserved better ! You deserve the best, better than me, better than him, better than anything. But if Mary didn&#8217;t think she deserved better than a two-bit Lothario sneaking around who am I to tell her? I wonder if the day will ever come when Mary will wake up and say, I&#8217;m Mary for chrisakes, THE Mary, the GREAT Mary, the Mary who would never lower herself like that because I am TOO DAMN GOOD, way too good, and I am very expensive, PRICELESS in fact, dear, and not for free! For me you must sacrifice everything, all you have, and then maybe just maybe I&#8217;ll possibly consider you. You are that good Mary.<p>Oh maybe it was just for fun. The guy was fun, I had fun with him, and I had friends like him when I was young. The kind of guy who&#8217;d call up bubbling with enthusiasm and say hey Charley I just got some good hash wanna come over and have a toke? I guess immature people can make you feel young too You can almost see him grinning on the other end of the phone. A fun seeker. Problem is the fun always seemed to involve sex, drugs, and alcohol. But I&#8217;ve been there. Whoopeeeeeeeee ! The surfer doper code, go for it man, just go for it.
It sure is easy to be relaxed and carefree about life if you have no troubling morality or conscience to encumber you or get in the way.<p>I waited for an apology from him but it never came so I figured it was best to move on and forgive him first. I&#8217;d make it easy for the poor tortured guy. Then weeks passed until finally a note came at the door. No apology, no I am sorry, not a twinge of guilt, and definitely not tortured in the slightest. . I was so pissed and sad I felt going over to his house and jamming it down his throat. I told Mary and of course she defended him, oh that is just his way of expressing himself or something like that. Poor Mr. Sensitive again. He&#8217;s not a big strong man like you, just a poor helpless little boy who needs mommy&#8217;s love. He wasn&#8217;t sorry, that&#8217;s the point, [censored] like him are never sorry, they take what they need and to hell with everybody else. I thought of a dream letter:<p> Dear Mr. Sensitive,
I saw your letter to Charley and was extremely sad and disappointed by your failure to apologize at all to him. Forgiving you was one of the hardest things Charley has ever done.
I watched him agonize through the process and check the mailbox daily for the letter of apology he was sure you would send him but it never came. In many ways your betrayal of him was worse than my own and hurt him so deeply. With me he could at least point to some of his own failures, but he was the most perfect friend to you. You never had a more caring and loyal friend than Charley and he forgave you first without your even asking.
I thought you were a sensitive person. Your lame attempt at the apology Charley deserves ten times over makes the cheesy apology Bill Clinton gave look like the confessions of Saint Peter.<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I know all too painfully my own responsibility for what happened but I have spent six weeks apologizing to Charley and to God for my actions. Your complete lack of any trace of remorse for what we did to this kind caring decent man who loved us both like none other is downright chilling. Guess I sure did make the right choice about who to stay with.<p>And please don&#8217;t think there are any memories to share. All of my memories and all of Charley&#8217;s memories are part of one long nightmare we are most eager to forget. Regrets ? Yes.
I regret every moment I ever spent with you and am ashamed of every lie I told to have them, especially the lies I told myself. It was the biggest mistake of my life. <p>Sincerely,<p>MARY<p>PS: I&#8217;M SPARTACUS !
<p>
Nothing wrong with wishing I guess. I would donate all my organs right here on the spot without anesthesia for such a letter. But I know Mary doesn&#8217;t have the energy right now to try to heal me, she has too much on her hands healing herself I guess. Sometimes when I get up late at night and sit alone in the living room I think how nice it would be for Mary to come down the stairs and give me a hug and a there there don&#8217;t feel so bad I love you pat on the back. But she gets very hostile if I cry, doesn&#8217;t want me to feel bad and she told me straight up that she could not handle my emotions and that they were too overwhelming to her. So what am I going to do ? It is not that Mary hasn&#8217;t given her all to help us get through this, she makes the sweetest love to me, calls me at the office, has been kind and understanding, and has talked about it with me for hours even though I think she would prefer not to discuss it at all. It is just that some things like these heavy emotional thoughts I have to keep to myself even though they are the ones I most want to share. Just keep chugging away I guess. I wonder if I could ever share this letter with Mary or if she would ever write one like it to share with me. Mary doesn&#8217;t like to confront things though, they are too painful for her. So if I make her sad she gets mad at me and I get sad that I made her sad and mad and then she is mad. Round and round we go where it stops nobody knows.<p>Of course the hardest thing to express would be that I have any doubt, but to be honest I do or have had or whatever. Sometimes I think I have just been cut too deep for the bleeding to ever stop. Humpty Dumpty syndrome. Mary thinks this about me I think. She is skeptical of my ability to get over it. You&#8217;ll always hold it against me she said, you&#8217;ll never forget, I know you,I have seen how you agonize over things, it is one of the reasons I didn&#8217;t like being around you at times, watching you stew and suffer. Some irony here I guess, you don&#8217;t like to see me suffer so now I have to deal with the motherload of all suffering ! Yikes ! In my darkest moments I think that I must leave her but I realized I could never stop loving Mary.<p> Then my brain, ever facile, says, you don&#8217;t have to, you can always love her, just do not share your life with her anymore. Make the break, tell her you had something special, you&#8217;ll always love her, but for her sake and yours it would be best to start new lives cause this one is over. It wouldn&#8217;t be because I don&#8217;t forgive her, I do, but I could love, forgive and leave all at once couldn&#8217;t I? What would be the basis for such action then? Maybe it is the same kind feeling I have with respect to the other person, I loved him and I forgave him but I will never speak to him again and have no interest in associating with him ever. Why would I ? How could I ? How can I want to be around Mary? Don&#8217;t know but I sure as hell do.<p> I actually believe I love her more now than I ever did, why I do not know. How can she believe me telling her that she hurt me more than I have ever been hurt but don&#8217;t worry about it, I love you more than ever. Maybe she doesn&#8217;t believe it. Maybe she thinks I am just hanging on because I am too weak, or for the sake of the children or my sense of pride or ego or to keep her from the other guy. In other words, I don&#8217;t love her, just can&#8217;t let her go. Not true, just not true. Maybe Mary is hanging on tome for the same reasons but I don&#8217;t think so. I had this fantasy: I go to dinner with Mary and the other person. I sign over the house and everything I own to Mary. I tell them they have my blessing if they want to be together and that I will tell the children that I am the one leaving the marriage and take all the responsibility. They can pick it up later as if they were just meeting and say it only happened after I left. I would do this, but it would not prove anything I do not already know, Mary would choose me every time God bless her soul. <p>Once I imagined being divorced and being introduced to Mary for the first time with her being another person formerly married. Would I think she is the loveliest person in the world and fall in love with her? In a second. Who wouldn&#8217;t ? She is that wonderful. So maybe it is best for me now to think of our relationship as just as new and just as fresh. That&#8217;s OK with me. <p>So I guess that is the whole ball of wax. Sounds like a lot of piss and vinegar no doubt but despite the fuming tone at times it is really a letting go. Shouting at the sky so to speak. I am not like this all the time just now when I am venting. I am kind of surprised that the sum total of all my thoughts on this has boiled down to ten pages. I would have guessed it would have taken ten hundred but this is really all of it. The hurt, the jealousy, the anger, and the unexplainable wonder of how I ever got to this place have just coalesced somehow. It is been so incredibly therapeutic to write all these thoughts down, to tell the tale from my perspective, that I believe it has moved me much much closer to letting it all go. God knows I am ready. I used to think that I had to reprogram myself to get rid of these thoughts or reconcile them in some way but I am starting to believe it won&#8217;t be necessary. Maybe I can be puzzled, hurt, jealous and angry about it all and still heal quite nicely. Maybe I am just benefiting from the exercise of pouring it all out and these thoughts will all come back with all the emotions attached to them at a later time to pain me again unless I dissect them fully so they can&#8217;t be reassembled. But right now I feel pretty damn good, unburdened and self-confident. Perhaps some morning Mary will wake up and say those magic words I long to hear, maybe I can live just fine without ever hearing them. I am thinking that I have come to the realization that I don&#8217;t have to stop the hurt; I just have to make sure the hurt doesn&#8217;t stop me. You can live with hurt I guess just like a missing leg or anything else. <p>The only thing left to say is, how much I love Mary, more than life itself, Mary is my life. She is all I hope for, care for and treasure. Her love for me is enough for me to weather any storm including this one. Honestly, there was never any doubt that I would weather it the only question was how. In some respects I think that Mary&#8217;s own security and sureness of her love for me at all times and her certainty about my love her was something that in an odd sort of way emboldened her to do what she did. She felt safe in knowing that nothing would alienate her from me or me from her. <p> Mary truly is the most wonderful person in the world to me and my forgiveness for her is both genuine and total. We are all students in the school of life; Mary has tried as hard as any of us to find the right path. All of our successes and failures at this are mixed. Maybe it was foolish of me to place all of my emotional capital in one person&#8217;s hands but I know no other way. And if my heart and soul did not tell me Mary was that person I would not have done it, nor would I do it now. It is all yours Mary, here is my life, again, try not to drop it this time OK ? I know she won&#8217;t. And then there is that strange but undeniable feeling we both have that we will be more in love and better together as a result of this than we ever were. I wish we could have had such an awakening without the trauma but we&#8217;ll sure play the cards we were dealt. Mary and I will be together and in love forever, more devoted, more enraptured, and happier than ever from this day forward. <p>Maybe Mary needs to hear some magic words from me. How about these: I am OK with it, Mary, I really am, it doesn&#8217;t matter anymore, I love you too much to let it get in our way, and it won&#8217;t. I&#8217;ll forget it, I swear, and will never hold it against you, never, ever, ever. It won&#8217;t be hard for me to do this either, its easy when you are falling more deeply in love every single day.<p>
Anyway, I am Charley, and I love Mary.

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Dear Jack218,
I have also just learned of an affair my h had. Only in our case it occcured over a decade ago and I just found out. Reading your post, I found you are experiencing many of the same feelings as I am. Especially, what is uniquely ours. It will take time to get through the hurt, suspicians, etc. We are working through this now and he is doing everything possible to helpme. Thankfully, over our years together there have not been any other falls from grace in this area. I learned part of the truth way back then, and only recently learned of the rest of the story. In my case, He is my first and only, and I felt that it must have not been of value to him. That is not true, what is true is most men are not at all mature at 19 years old. So I am trying to focus on the man he has become and is now. But like you, the past has a way of slipping back in to bite. Pray a lot. It is the only thing to do. Study the bible, and read the story on this site, A Long Ago Betrayal, I can't remeber what it is listed under, but is not in the forum section, probably advice. Also, are you and your wife Christians? If not for one or both of you that is the first place to start. Then talk to a paster for prayer, and support. You don't have to air all of your dirty laundry to do that. Also, try counseling as a couple. Keep ajournal of your feelings, when you put it down you can leave it there, instead of carrying around the feelings to run through your head all the time. It really helps. Pray for peace and understanding for yourself and your wife. I hope the two of you can work together to rebuild, and form a new and better union. Search out Christ's will for your life and your marriage, that is another key. In the meantime, I will pray for you and your family,
In Christ, sfmc

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Wow....lonnnnnggg post!<p>I am so sorry you find yourself in this painful position--it is very painful, but many folks here DO recover and strengthen their marriage after an affair. BTW...if you go to the infidelity sections of the board you may find more response.<p>Have you seen this link?<p>www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=29&t=000553<p>Good luck.

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Hello Jack,<p>Your letter was very painful to read but very
honest in its approach. I have been where you are.
The OM you said was with other women and did drugs
all of the time. Your wife was involved with him for two years. I do hope you and your wife have been tested for STD's. I know this is not pleasant to consider but this OM sounded a perfect candidate of a person that would be unhealthy.<p>The sad fact of your letter to me is that the
affair continued for 2 years and your wife did
not come to you and be honest about it but only stopped when she was caught. The fact that she was doing this to you with a friend of yours makes it
a double betrayal. I know that your pain would be lessened if your wife would not continuously stand up for this guy. Two years seems an awfully long time to lie and cheat to a spouse. I am sure that you feel those two years were just lies concerning your marriage. I would not expect to believe much of anything your wife says concerning this affair in order to protect your feelings.<p>It is clear that you love your wife with great passion and emotion. It also seems that your wife stopped only because she was caught and is now sorry. I do not think she knows or appreciates the man she is married too. The fact that you would never do such a thing says it all. I do not think that she deserves you. I am sorry for your pain and hope that you seek therapy as soon as possible. I have always believed in judging people by their actions and not by their words. I wish you luck.

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Charley, Charley, Charley
You do have the gift of soulful expression. From Spartacus, to Spock to cocaine and then some - all in relation to an affair and how it is affecting you. I hope that it was somewhat cathartic to write your lengthy post. You seem truly tormented right now and I wish you peace.
You and your wife both seem like very nice people. You are so smart to see that she can't heal you right now as she must heal herself.
You really love her like that and share intimate physical moments after all those years of marriage? I am envious. Truly.
I have been in a separate bedroom for four years and can't turn towards my spouse nor towards the door and an affair. I am paralyzed with fear, anxiety, small children, guilt, shame, anger - you name it. You might think I am crazy but despite all the pain you're in I remain envious of and inspired by the compelling love and intimacy aspect of your solid, long-term marriage. I sometimes think I'd rather truly love someone and be betrayed and then get to be the one to forgive and stay then to be living in such a dead zone. You have the gift of expression, you have the gift of love, you have the gift of strength during pain.
Ah! I got to this website trying to help a friend recover from the discovery of her husband's seven year affair (they are recovering nicely) and help her out. I,like you, can appreciate the desire to have a plethora of friends like Spartacus. As I sit in a (temporarily I hope) dead romance/marriage and get tempted by another man (but you must divorce first he insists!) I realize that perhaps both of these men are interested mostly in what is in it for "them" in having a relationship with "me". I'm sitting in the middle getting nothing from no one. And too busy and overwhelmed to do anything about it. Now you see Jack/Charley - whoever - as I said I have been visiting this site and posting occassionally to others and this is the first time I started to indulge in my own self-pity when I meant to be supportive of your deep grief at this time. I guess your empathic nature just allowed me some grieving space - thank you. For you, "I am Spartacus" should you ever need the support. You two have so much together. So much love. So much history. So much intimacy. How lucky. How sad. How lucky. Take care.
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