my boyfriend made a big mistake trying to cheat on me and just when he tried to put it behind him I found out. He met her one a plane and they are both from our city. They got together when they each returned home from their seperate trips and they went out one night and he tried to kiss her (she told me everything when I tracked her down by emailing her after I found her email address in his stuff, I convinced her to call me and she confessed everything)she turned him down and told him she had a very meaningful relationship with her boyfriend and wasn't willing to lose him, they went out to coffee 2 times after their "date" and he just stopped seeing her all together, she has given me no reason to doubt her story and I have no doubt in what she told me. my boyfriend and I have had lots of heart to hearts since the incident and he is really trying to mend things but I just can't believe in him. The I love yous mean something to me only briefly and then I go in search of more reassurance and even his constent reference to our future and future children , the home we are going to buy etc serve as brief reassurance to me. I want to believe in him again and regain the incredible trust we once had in one another but I just can't let go. How do you guys do it. We use to be incredibly in love and he just couldn't believe that I chose him. He is in the military and has come from a broken home but swears he doesn't want to be anything like his dad..... he is getting so frustrated with my questions and I am really trying not to investigate his every move like I once felt so compelled to do. Lately I come up with nothing in my searches but I still have a hard time believing in him..... what am I waiting for???????? I couldn't begin to describe what I need from him..... so what's my problem? It really does appear that he regrets what he tried and I can see it but I can't believe in it......it's becoming such a problem for me and it is consuming me........ HELP...........PLEASE<p>[ April 12, 2002: Message edited by: trying my best ]<p>[ April 13, 2002: Message edited by: trying my best ]</p>

I know what you mean. I do. I'm in the same position.
But sometimes you have to just forgive. You can either take the high road of righteous indignation, or just accept him for a guy who makes mistakes, but is willing to work on it. With you.
It's an everyday, every hour thing. Sometimes, I need reassurance so badly. So I ring him at work, or on his mobile at whatever time of day to find out what he's doing and where he is. It's about building back that trust. And it's ok. Do it. Admit to him that you get nervous and unsure and that you want him to reassure you.
We tell each other every day that we love each other, and how happy we are that we gave each other another chance. <p>But you have to decide for yourself what you want from him. Find the words. If not for him just now, then at least for yourself. What are your expectations? What are your needs? Which Emotional Needs take priority right now? These change with time, I have learned. <p>But I think the very fact that you are still with him indicates that you want to make it work.<p>I'll say a little prayer for you. And try to come back every now and then to see if you've written anything more here.

thank you anise, your understanding means more than you know. It IS an everyday battle but I can't do keep struggling with it or myself. It is taking everything out of me, the uncertainty is heartbreaking in its self. Just once I want definate proof that he is not just pretending or playing a part he feels he has to. Just once....one big "I don't know what" that screams he loves me like he once did. Like I say I don't know what that would be so I can't even tell he what I am looking for.......
thanks again

I would strongly suggest you guys do couples counseling before you get married, for two reasons. First is that you need to be sure that whatever issues influenced him to cheat are solidly taken care of...issues like this arising so early in the relationship are a big red flag. Second, you guys need to build the relationship to the point where you truly trust each other, or more issues will arise.<p>Fix things now, benefit later.<p>Kathi

Go with your gut instincts. If you are uneasy about this relationship then maybe you should consider taking time apart. I'm just telling you this from a person that wishes that I had gone with my brain and instincts and not my heart. Be careful.

Hello, I am the boring back to basics guy. I discovered this site after reading one of Dr Harleys books. And ever since I read posts like yours of pain and panic that comes of not knowing there is a problem and not understanding, it let alone know how to fix it. So READ THE BOOKS! "Love Busters" teaches us about our bad habbits that destroy romantic love and how to eliminate them from our relationships. "His Needs Her Needs" teach us how to meet each others needs and to build up romantic love. I recomend you order the books (online here or amazon) and until they come in read "the basics" until they come in. There is lots of other good materiel here but get the books, read them (I recomend LB first), both of you.
You may still need counceling, but I have learned that change comes from within, councelors only guide us. There are times that we are in so much pain that we become irrational, guard against this, if you cannot then see the councelor for sure HNHN has info on how to select a councelor. With or without counceling, having read the books you will have wonderfull resources to work with.
Also while you are waiting for the books download the printer friendly versions of "Love Busters Survey" or is it questionaire? Any way and the printfriendly version of "emotional needs survey" and both of you fill them out. These will give you a clue to your problems.
In closing I will remind you that our creator God intended for couples to be in what we call today "a commited monogomous relationship". Us old fashiond people call it marriage. In marriage we are committed to a contract for life that we will "forsake all others". Many today fall into the boyfriend or girlfriend trap. They never feel the security of commitment, ussualy out of fear of the unknown. After reading the books together you two will be ready to make intelligent decisions regarding the rest of your lives. And if you mary, to have very happy lives.
Marriage is one place where ignorance is not bliss.
May God be with you both.

Thank you all your advice!
I ordered HNHN online and have read it. I put my little comments in the margins and sent it off for my fiance to read. I agree that it is important to go through all these issues before marriage. Once he's finished reading, we will discuss our needs surveys together.<p>We spent 6 months apart. This time was crucial for us to understand what we want in a relationship, and to get a bit of distance from the relationship to put many of these problems into perspective. We were still in contact during this time - phone and email. And we ironed out quite a bit and promised to work harder together to make it work.<p>I think his proposal was quite significant, as for us both, it indicates his decision to commit. We are having a fairly long (7 month) engagement. During this time, we continue to discuss the issues of trust, etc. So, I am becoming optimistic again.

Dear trying,
what would you want to hear from him? Or what would you want him to do to prove himself? And if he did/said this, would you believe? Would this set your mind at rest?

dear anise,
thank you again for your reply. But that is just the problem I don't know what I want to hear from him. So that leaves me in a bind. I love him dearly and I honestly feel that he loves me but I get so frustrated with myself not knowing what I need from him. It's mind boggling. I try to imagine what would set my mind at ease but I draw a blank everytime. I love you is comforting for a brief period but after that I am dying for something more.........I just don't know what....maybe some sort of guarantee...... There was a time when I would have and could have bet the moon that he would never have dreamt of doing what he's done.....I was lucky. It was like he thought I came from God himself.....what changed.... Suddenly I am taken for granted...honestly..what scares me is that after all we've gone through lately.....me threatening to leave....my tears....my constent insecurities...why haven't I seen him shed a tear.... That's all I seem to be able to do and yet I haven't seen one tear from him..maybe thats it..maybe I just need to see him show some emotion about the thought of the end of us! Thats it..... thats what I need so despirately...... I have heard his voice crack a couple of times but never a tear...why? Isn't he scared or am I the only one that can't imagine life with out him.... or us.......

I was just thinking that everyone who reads this only gets one side of the story so I figured that if I were to give you an idea of what kinds of things my bf says to console me maybe it would give you a better picture of where we stand and what harm can it do given that he and I and yourselves are all strangers who may never meet but are fortunate enough to have one another none the less. When I found out about what my bf had done he was away on a course with work for 21/2 months and we had to deal with the issue over the phone the whole time right from the beginnning. It was the hardest thing I have ever had to do but we did it and we are now back together. His work requires him to be away alot but that is soon going to change because he is changing positions in his job and he will be home more. In the past 5 1/2 yrs we have been together he has been away for more than 850 days, the longest stretch being 6 months. While we were battling our emotions over the phone after the truth came out...I pleaded with him time and time to just be honest and let me go if he didn't love me...just let me get on with my life so I can be happy and so can he.... I promised that I would leave respectably and I wouldn't clean the house out in his absence or take his money...I just wanted my life and my happinesss back and maybe regain some dignity....time after time he kept saying "no thats not what I want at all.... I don't want you to go.....I don't want to loose you... I don't know why I did what I did....she wasn't even a 1/4 of the girl I see in you".... he just couldn't explain what he had done... even she (the other girl.... who I have only talked to on the phone and via email) has said the farthest things went was his attempt one night to put his hand on her waist at the night club while they walked thru the crowd and then the attempted kiss good night, from him to her, as they ended the night..... she turned her head and he got her cheek and that was the end of it beside the next day when she had invited him out for coffe to explain that she was involved with a guy she cared dearly for and that she was just looking for a buddy in the city she had just moved to...He responded "that's cool I understand..." then they went out to coffee one more time and she never heard form him again. One night after a long conversation over the phone I pleaded with him that I needed him to write me a letter because I felt that was a way for him to have time to himself to think about what he needed to say without me crying in his ear.....and he did it... he wrote me a letter and I have cherished it everyday since...I read it everyday and have been since november.....
here is how it goes......
"hey ------, how's it going? I know it's probably been better. Just wanted to let you know that I have been thinking alot about you lately and how me being stupid and totally lacking judgement has hurt you. I really never wanted to hurt you and never had thoughts of wanting to leave or lose you, in fact over the last few weeks the thought of losing you and knowing that our relationship has suffered because of me has really bothered me and shown me that even though I seem to have gotten off track the last couple of years and taken you for granted, I do need and want you in my life. I don't know why I'm not the same person I was when we met, I try to figure it out, maybe being away so much has caused me to drift away, maybe not, I don't know but I wish I did. I do know however that this has sobered me up and showed me that I still do love you very much. Knowing that I have hurt you and hearing that in your voice when we talk, really hurts and makes me feel like the biggest loser in the world especially since you don't deserve it. You have always been there for me, supported me and shown me love and I am proud of you and what you have accomplished (I am in university and have been since we met, and in the meantime we have left our home town and moved across the country together because of his job... he has always supported me emotionally while I have been in school and I will graduate next yr with an incredible career to look forward to and that is what he means by being proud of me, that is one area that he has always been amazing in...I have prospered from his support and I love him with all my heart for that)... the letter goes on to finish like this....
"I know things may not be the same for a while, but I really do want to get back what we had, I miss me too!" (I always told him how different he had become from the guy I fell in love with and how I just want that guy back again and how I couldn't love who who had become because he wasn't a guy I could love....I missed the love of my life and I needed "him" back......) it continues.... "I really am going to try and get back on track because I don't want to lose you. I love you very much. -------"
Can someone please give me some insight..................................................................I can read this every day and can even resight the whole thing word for word from reading it so much.....It helps me to stay positive but unfortunately I need more.....like I said earlier..... I would like to see some emotion on his part...maybe that would make it all real somehow......please...somebody offer me some more insight..... you guys have been amazing... I wish I had come here sooner... I have suggested the councelling but he is a little timid, he has a hard time opening up to anyone but me and he has only just recently been doing that with me again for the first time in 4 yrs...he said he would find it too difficult opening up to a complete stranger....but I am going to keep trying with him.... I think it would be a great opportunity...<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: trying my best ]</p>

So, have you read the books? I dont think so, otherwise I think you would feel a lot better about this. I give up, how come you dont read the books that have distilled 30 odd years of counceling?

It seems to me that you basically want him to become completely unravelled and show as much or more hurt than you did during the difficult times. I get a feeling that that would even things up in your eyes. But honey, I have to lay it out to you: not all men are like that. He may feel like what he scrapes off the bottom of his shoes, but may never shed a tear.<p>
Of course, the bible says that if a man looks at a woman with lust in his heart, then he has already committed the sin. So, I can see that in principle, that the hurt is the same as if your guy had actually done it. If it's any conslation, be relieved that he didn't.<p>I had the same idealistic view of relationship and marriage. I thought I had waited so long, and had such high standards, that this was surely my prince charming. my prince among men.
But guess what? My guy's just a man. Just like yours is. And as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, he's going to make stupid mistakes. Unintentionally, and intentionally. We all do.<p>I thought that this could never happen to me, after all, I had found a prince. I took too much for granted. And it was the 'I can't believe this happened to us - the perfect couple' feeling that stunned me more than the infidelity. I was numb for months. It's humbled me quite a bit.<p>I think that letter is AMAZING. Very emotionally open. More than I ever got, let me tell you! :-)<p>One comment: people change in life. Nothing stays the same. The true test of love, I believe is not clinging to that static image of the man you fell in love with. But growing your love to keep pace with the person both you and he are becoming.<p>If you don't think this guy that you are loving NOW is as good as (or better than) the guy you met 5+ years ago, then don't hold on, living on memories of how good it used to be. Or how great it could be in future. Let go. And move on. Because if you cannot truly forgive, then is that really true love on your side?<p>[ April 22, 2002: Message edited by: Anise ]</p>

I have ordered two of the books and I am looking forward to the information within them. Perhaps I am looking for revenge in a subtle way. I am just trying to find peace within myself. I know that peolpe make mistakes and I finally think I understand that aswell. It took a long time but I am ready to move on to the next step, whatever that may be. Neg or pos, your responces help. I realize I am luckier than most that it didn't go further but I too suffer from the misconception that nothing bad can happen to a good relationship...it has.....and I believe it was a mistake that most likely will never happen again. I think we got caught up in misunderstandings that lead to some awful thought and some awful acts... I just recently watched the movie the story of us and it shed some light on our situation of misunderstanding leading to misunderstanding..... Thank you all for your help. I will be back.

I'm not in exactly the same place you are but my boyfriend and I have lived together for 2 years. A couple of months ago he lied to me about a work dinner and instead helped an intern at his company with some work. It ended up with them at dinner and kind of turned into a date. I found out about it less than a week later, woman's intiution. <p>Since then we have talked, cried, talked some more and forgiven. You need to make sure that all the right emotional needs are being met and discuss what each one of you needs from the relationship, but sometimes people do make mistakes that can hurt you bad, but love is forgiveness and work. It sounds as if he is really trying to make amends for what he did. You need to remember that men don't always do or say what we would in the same situation. If he is willing to listen, answer questions, reassure you and account for his time, he is doing all he can. Men don't cry too often or show the same emotions we do. If you expect much in that department you are going to be disapointed. <p>Keep the lines of communication open and make sure you spend quality time together. What has worked for us is no tv a couple of nights a week. After work, gym, we come home, make dinner together, play a game, go for a walk, something that ensures we are talking about our day or whatever. <p>Whatever you decide, make sure you still want to be with him because of him, not that you are scared to be alone, or because its' comfortable. Keep reading and posting, it helps. Feel good that it didn't go any further and that you are able to work on things before it happened again.

sandinpa, I totally agree with keeping the lines of communication open. It is our saving grace. He has just come home from being away for three weeks and things are going so well. He seems so happy to be here with me and he doesn't seem at all pre-occupied. He has gently let me know he has to go away again in three weeks for ten days and that he'll have to go again for 5 days not long after he comes back. The good thing is that he is cut off from the real world all the while he is gone and he is only with guys, gets 1 phone call per day and that is always to me. I think we are on the ammends but if it weren't for our womens' intuition I would have never stopped it in time...it would have gone further, perhaps far enough that I would never have gotten him back. Who knows maybe people are right when they say everything happens for a reason. Maybe this mistake that fortunately didn't go as far as it could have opened both our eyes to see that a relationship takes effort, its not just something that happens. His dad made the same mistake twice and is so very confused and unhappy, and my bf has always said he doesn't want to be like his dad. regardless of the fact that he loves his dad. His mistake may have been at the fork in the road for him and he stopped there and got stuck until I pulled him to the path that ended with"us" by making him talk about what he had done and how it was what his father would have done not what he would have done. Lets just hope that future forks in the road for both of us are easy decisions. And for you and your bf too [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Take care of yourself. keep posting

Hello,<p>Reading your account of what happened w/ you and your boyfriend really hit home for me....everything, especially my feelings are the same only difference here really is I'm a guy, I'm the faithful one in this instance, and my girlfriend of 2 years is the one who screwed up. The question...as you are trying to answer...is how do you regain the trust you once had in someone after they completely violated it? You are wrestling with the same issues I am now and are probably taking similar measures to make sense of whats going on in SOMEONE ELSES mind. You know YOU right? You are not the issue, I know me, I know my intentions. I can only make up 50% of any relationship (as can you) the other 50% has to be taken up by the other person who you HOPE shares the same feelings you do. You owe it to yourself to do what you can to draw the best conclusion on your partner. It's part of life and the effort find a suitable mate. I'm 26, have a decent job, go to church every Sunday. etc etc. basically cover all my bases. I feel...well...felt very confident in who I was and that I was good enough for my girlfriend. Much so enough that at very least I felt she would never be inclined to cheat on me in the ludicrous way that she did. I love her for who she was/..is?? but I hate her for what she did and I'm not sure I'm capable of getting past it. Mixed emotions. She has apologized endlessly now and tells me I am the LOVE of her life, her everything, her you name it. ...it's not the same knowning what I know now. Before that sounded great, now it's different. I want to believe what she says, but exactly what is she really giving me (or ever going to give me) as evidence that this side of her is over? How do I know 10yrs down the road, married w/ 2.7 kids...she won't do something like this to me again? I/we owe it to ourselves to do everything we can NOW so that we make a good decision and NOT wind up adding to the crazy divorce % there is nowadays. It's "almost" humorous reading your words (though it's heavy and a horrible situation) because I relate to you and how you're handling it, reacting to it, dealing w/ it etc etc - 100%. I don't know maybe this is just common proceedure given the circumstances but my sentiments EXACTLY.<p>We're both looking for the same thing and maybe we're both looking for answers that simply aren't there. I can tell you, if nothing less, it's does me good to know that there are others out there that share my same feelings and have to deal with issues like this. Maybe we can help each other as we're both experiencing the same thing with the same feelings only I come at it from the male perspective and you from the female's.

Wow, maybe you're right. I feel more at ease knowing someone else is going through the same scenario I am. It, sadly, comforts me to know that my fears and uncertainties are not necessarily unique.
You're right, it feels wonderful hearing him say how much he loves me but I'm afraid we may never get the answers we think we want.
I hope that the minority who actually say "sometimes people need to make hurtful mistakes before they see what they have and finally appreciate it enough to never make the same mistake twice"......I pray to God everyday that that is the case. Even my boyfriend has said that "maybe it was what he needed to make him realize what he had".
I take comfort in his promises and his words...but the comfort only lasts for a brief period and I start questioning something else in my mind. We have had a few ups and downs since, It's almost always the same conversation and he almost always gets mad and says he doesn't know what else he can do or say to make things better. I know you know exactly what I mean.... maybe they really do regret what they've done... and they get upset that we can't see that with the endless promises they are making. Are you 100% certain her affair is done? Do you find yourself checking on her word and verifying her whereabouts from time to time? I still look once and a while..... Mostly to prove to myself that he is being truthful.... I love him dearly but it's going to take time.... We will get through this and they will keep their promises....we have to keep the faith that good things happen to good people, someone is making them regret their mistakes.....I am sure of it....<p>[ May 12, 2002: Message edited by: trying my best ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by trying my best:
<strong>Wow, maybe you're right. I feel more at ease knowing someone else is going through the same scenario I am. It, sadly, comforts me to know that my fears and uncertainties are not necessarily unique.
You're right, it feels wonderful hearing him say how much he loves me but I'm afraid we may never get the answers we think we want.
I hope that the minority who actually say "sometimes people need to make hurtful mistakes before they see what they have and finally appreciate it enough to never make the same mistake twice" are right!......I pray to God everyday that that is the case. Even my boyfriend has said that "maybe it was what he needed to make him realize what he had".
I take comfort in his promises and his words...but the comfort only lasts for a brief period and I start questioning something else in my mind. We have had a few ups and downs since, It's almost always the same conversation and he almost always gets mad and says he doesn't know what else he can do or say to make things better. I know you know exactly what I mean.... maybe they really do regret what they've done... and they get upset that we can't see that with the endless promises they are making. Are you 100% certain her affair is done? Do you find yourself checking on her word and verifying her whereabouts from time to time? I still look once and a while..... Mostly to prove to myself that he is being truthful.... I love him dearly but it's going to take time.... We will get through this and they will keep their promises....we have to keep the faith that good things happen to good people, someone is making them regret their mistakes.....I am sure of it....</strong><hr></blockquote>

What is that a light bulb as the message icon here? ...don't let that fool you. that lightbulb doensn't mean I figured this all out. There may never be a legit "bulb" symbolizing my understanding of this all. I guess at this point I really don't care about the past, what I'm more concerned about is the future, and why EXACTLY this won't happen again. Because she got caught? Because it didn't work out "this time" w/ that other person? too much of a hassle? Inconvenience? etc etc. could be anything really ie. one of the many WRONG reasons or the sole RIGHT reason....that being she has really learned her lesson and realizes where she wants to be. Why have things changed now? That is a conclusion you have to draw as do I and then move on. I still really want to know WHY it happend...for the sole reason that it needs to at least be identified so that progress can be made and we can move on. Right? It has to be at least known to her most importantly but also to me....so that it can be prevented in the future. How do you NOT do something again, if you don't even know why you did it in the first place???!!! Would you agree? What reason did your boyfriend give as to WHY this happened? My girlfriend tells me ...""I dont' know?...it just happened" "I wasn't myself" I was insecure" "I don't know what I saw in him" etc. etc. She then gets into the "I'm sorry, please forgive me" lines. She can't identify what made her stray which leads me to believe 1. She's plain clueless 2. It's me. 3. There are underlying reasons she can admit. I don't know. It's a common line to say, "this only made me realize how much I love you" as your boyfriend says - more words or less. But, how many times, how many more instances will he have to justify his love for you by doing this? All of a sudden he loves everything about you again and the life you share. Relationships all have their ups and downs...what happens on the next downturn? Would you agree the downturn is inevitable in the grand "rollercoaster" theme of relationships? If so, what happens then? More need to go out and "realize how much he loves you?" Same deal for me. I go out w/ my guy friends and it makes me realize how thankful I am for her...she cheats on me and it makes her realize how thankful she is for me -?- I'd like to think this was it and it did it for her, her love for me is now solidified. These instances can really improve relationships, I believe that. But, they can also be symbolic that you arent w/ the right person too which isn't a conclusion anyone but the person involved can draw. heheheheh. WERE DEFINATELY GETTING SOMEWHERE!!!! Just trying to help you and I, but maybe I'm making matters worse....Well, have a good weekend wherever you'll be having it. I'll be doing the same hopefully.

Hi Trying...<p> Just one thing I'd like to ask. Has BF ever explained to you why he felt the "need" to go after the OW in the first place? Perhaps this is the source of your dilema. You continue to question his actions and motivations, because you still don't understand the motivation behind the attempted affair. Was it simply a momentary lapse of reason based on a physical attraction? Or is/was there some underlying factor? I think that you need to find out. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Difficult as it may be, the two of you need to address what almost happened before you can move past it. Until you do, you'll never be at rest. You're always going to be suspiscious of his motives. Deal with it together so you can grow together. It does seem that he truly regrets what happened, but has not told you why. And you need to hear it as much as he needs to say it.<p>Best of luck.
Crypto