Hi guys,<BR>I met with the W yesterday and it was terrible. As soon as she saw me she broke down in tears and cried like I have never seen her cry before. I was so sad... She wouldn't let me hold her or touch her. We did talk for almost 2 hours about everything.<P>She is not seeing the OM anymore, One night stand type of thing. What I am getting from her is that she is so guilt ridden that she can't get past it. She makes statements like " You deserve someone better than me " and " I know you say it will be better than before but I feel there will always be a black cloud over my head " and " I know I screwed up my life " and of course the one that really hurts " I see myself alone in the future. " <P>Is this guilt ?? She won't recommit to our marriage because of these things. Our whole problem stems from infertility. So she also says things like " I can't produce a child for you and therefor I am not a complete woman. " Is there something I can do to help her?? I love this woman so much and she knows... I have made it very clear over and over again. I am not lovebusting at all and yesterday was the first time we talked in about a week. She admitted that there were some things she missed about me. She also said she is miserable and still needs some time. <P>How did you get over the guilt ( if there was any )??? Is there anything I can do ?? I have told her that I will give her space as to not pressure her and if she wants to talk to me or write me that she will need to initiate it. Not because I don't care but because I am respecting her wishes... Does that sound good ?? <P>Any insight or advise would be helpful.... Thank you<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Been there .... doing that ....<P>Guilt has been weighing heavy on me for the past year .... I know how she's feeling. She does not feel worthy of the unconditional love and forgiveness you're giving her. You sound like my H. The past is the past .... he just loves ME and wants ME to be his wife .... no matter what I've done.<P>That's so amazing to me. It's the picture of the unconditional love God gives us. I don't feel like I deserve any of his kindness or love ... but I am getting better.<P>There are days that it fades into a distant memory ... and days that it slaps me in the face .... but time is a healer .... and giving it over to God has helped too.<P>I have to realize (so does your W) that the past is the past and our choices cannot be changed, but where we go from here is the most important thing.<P>You will just have to be patient and keep reminding her of your love for her. I don't have a secret formula for removing guilt. Some carry it for a very long time, and some are able to work thru it ....<P>

I don't know even why I am posting, since I am going through a difficult time myself, but here is my two cents worth. <BR>The fact that she can not produce a child seems to be the major factor in her life. I don't know who came up with the phrase of "being a complete woman" just because you have a child! You become a cook, laundry person, taxi driver, teacher, preacher,doctor and other things...BUT JUST BEING ABLE to give birth to something the size of a canteloupe does not make you a complete woman. Heck you can have a puppy and do all of the same things. Seriously, I do believe she needs to talk with someone about the child subject...there are a lot of happy couples (childless) out there with the same problem as yours. Probably anyone on this board would be more than happy to let you share their children..havent we all offered to give ours up for a few days for some peace and quiet with our spouses?? Don't get me wrong, I do love our children and wouldnt trade them for anything (well almost), but if God had decided it wasn't meant to be, I'm sure something else would have filled our lives. Just keep telling her your love is there and with prayers she will finally see the light and come back home. I am not an advocate of "separation" even though I felt it when I first found out of my H's affair, and glad that neither went away. It's still tough going (on my part), but there is light at the end of the tunnel!<P>Please keep the faith and hang in there..my knuckles are white and my hands hurt constantly, BUT I WON'T LET GO.<P>Have a good one!

Maya,<BR>Thank you for your reply.. I would love to e-mail you if you are up to it. I am looking for perspective and insight as to what I might be able to do to help my W. "the_rutger@hotmail.com" <P>Star dazz,<BR>I know that children are not the glue in a marriage but I can't help but feel that if we had some children she wouldn't have felt so lonely during our infertility problems and none of this would have occured... Hind sight of course is always 20/20... She is talking to the same counselor that she talked to sometime ago.. I guess that is good but I think that counselor may be encouraging her to split further from me.. She knows now but didn't before this that my love for her would never have changed.. Children or no children..... thank you for your reply<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Rutger,<P>The guilt sounds as if it is weighing so heavily on your W right now, she's probably thinking that she doesn't deserve you. I felt that guilt for a long time, and still do at times, but it gets better as you replace the old with new memories. Time is the key here. Time for her to heal. She also may think that you will leave her at some point, because she cannot forgive herself, perhaps she's believing that you (somewhere down the line) will change your mind about forgiving her too (although you know you won't). All of these emotions, I went through. Self hatred has much to do with it too, you not only betrayed your spouse, but you betrayed yourself. She may think that she doesn't even know herself anymore. What she thought she was completely incapable of doing, she did, and that is shattering for your self esteem. When you said that she felt like a big black cloud was following her all over the place, I said the exact same thing.<P>Sounds as if she's battling some raw emotions right now, but she's repentant and loves you. Time will heal, it just takes awhile. Take care.<p>[This message has been edited by Madelyn (edited August 31, 1999).]

Madelyn,<BR>Thanks for your reply... I understand about time and that is really hard for me right now... I am addicted to my W. I want to be with her and talk with her all the time. How do I start new memories with her when she won't even see me? Talk to me? and every time we talk or see each other it goes sideways.... <P>I know she is going through hell right now, I wish I could help her but I can't.. She won't let me. I've told her when she needs me, I'll be there for her. I guess that is all I can do for now......<BR><P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Hi Rutger<P>I am sorry that you are feeling down I have nothing to offer except my prayers and thoughts, I am leaving work now its 16.30 pm here in S.A. but e mail if you want to talk I'll get it first thing in the morning 7.00am sharp thinking of you<BR>Jenny<P>------------------<BR>Where have all the cowboys gone ?<P>

Hi Rutger,<BR>It sounds as if you are doing everything possible to show her that you love her, miss her and have forgiven her, and she's just going through those gamut of emotions, but it doesn't mean that she can't be helped through it. She's got to be willing to take those steps now for her own emotional health to try to help herself, though. Must be frustrating for you to see her in pain, and your hands are tied. Are you and your wife in counseling? Right after my H and I confessed, we attended a Retrouvaille encounter (but no counseling other than that weekend), and it was great. They don't focus on past mistakes and rehashing what got you there, but more on moving forward, forgiveness and healing. I think that might be a good thing for both of you (counseling or marriage encounter and maybe purchase some affair help books that have been listed here). In the meantime, keep on doing what you are doing, you showing her this type of love will only reap some amazing benefits in the long run.

My husband is the betrayer.<P>He has a huge amount of guilt. He hasn't yet after 6 months forgiven himself. He also seems to deal with it much by egnoring it. If he faces it he can't seem to handle it and turns it around on me then says I was mostly to blame for ruining the marriage.<P>He says he is scarred for life. He will never ever be the same from what he has done. <P>His guilt is immense but, still you have to go forward.<P>Just do the plan A thing with your wife. Show her you love her no matter what. That you are willing to go on and move forward down the journey that is before you.<P>Pray alot! If you can try and attend church together. God can work miracles.<P>Go to therapy together too.<P>I pray you both get through this.<P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>