I have been with a man for several months now. We love eachother very much. We are not planning on marriage, and he is not yet divorced.
He is working on his divorce right now. He has been seperated for about a year and a half to two years.
I am not the only relationship he has had since his separation, and when I told him that his not being divorced bothered me (even though we don't plan on marriage) He wrote to his wife to start the divorce proceedings.
I was in a simular situation in my last relationship, but our relationship did not survive the situation. I am afraid about this one, but I know that they are not the same men, and the one I am presently with is taking all efforts to get divorced. He didn't tell me that he was not divorced until I asked him about it recently in a casual conversation. He said that he was afraid to tell me since he knew about my last encounter.
We bought the book "His needs, Her needs" and have been reading it together to discuss the topics of keeping eachother happy.
We love eachother very much.
Am I wrong to think this time it might work??

I told him that his not being divorced bothered me
It must not have bothered you much at all. You’re still seeing him & living together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I was in a simular situation in my last relationship, but our relationship did not survive the situation.
Why do you think this one would be any different, especially considering the fact he lied about being married. (and yes, it is a lie if he doesn’t tell you.)

We bought the book "His needs, Her needs" and have been reading it together to discuss the topics of keeping eachother happy.
He didn’t care about his wife’s needs, why would he be too concerned about yours?

We love eachother very much.
You might be in love but he is more in “lust”.

Am I wrong to think this time it might work??
Pretty much so.

Bottom line is he is still married. And he probably hasn’t actually started a divorce yet either.

Chris,
You seem to be quite negative... not once did you ask any questions of the situation that I might not have posted before you jumped on the chance to say that my current relationship is doomed.
Are you holding on to some hurt that you currently or recently have faced?... Or have you been the "man" in the situation who has hurt your ex in this way, and you are now paying for it?
Totally negativity was not was I was searching for. I was simply searching for some feedback and situations others have been through, and not only possitive feedback.... but feedback in what others have been through, and other ideas to make our situation go through smoothly and be over with in the best of attitudes.
I know of couples that have been through this, and even though many don't work out, strong love can beat all.
I'm sorry your negative and one sided feelings have given you the need to not give constructive criticism or constructive advice... but needs of total doubt and negativity to someone that might be in a total different situation than what you have been through.
Peace to you...
Hope your life improves.

Lany

Lany,

I realize from what you've said your not the reason he left his wife---

but at the same time--while your living with him it's not allowing him time alone to figure out if they could really make their marriage work--

My questions are more--

1. Why did they seperate?

2. Why hasn't HE filed for divorce?? If he is so adment on living with you or even dating other women--why is HE waiting on HER to file???

3. What has he learned about himself and what part he played in the break up of his marriage?

4. And has he worked on those issues?

5. Does he take at least half the responsibility
for his marriage ending? Or does he blame her?

6. Since his seperation has he even attempted to reconcile with his wife?

And as I am not sure why he left his wife, but the fact remains he did--for some reason--how will
he react when you two begin to have struggles? would he run out on your relationship as well??
and just move in with the next woman??

How long has he actually lived "alone" since he walked out on his wife??

not once did you ask any questions of the situation that I might not have posted before you jumped on the chance to say that my current relationship is doomed
Because situations such as yours are almost always doomed, regardless of the facts.

Totally negativity was not was I was searching for.
I understand that. You wanted something to help you make the relationship work. I want to win the lotto. That doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

I was simply searching for some feedback and situations others have been through, and not only possitive feedback.... but feedback in what others have been through, and other ideas to make our situation go through smoothly and be over with in the best of attitudes.
If you didn’t read the name of this site, it is Marriage Builders.
Regardless of where you entered into the relationship, he is still married.
And he lied to you about it. So you are off to a very poor start with him.

I know of couples that have been through this, and even though many don't work out, strong love can beat all.
It’s not strong love which makes it work, it’s paying attention to the relationship and the needs of each other. Obviously he and his wife didn’t do it properly. What has learned since then?

I'm sorry your negative and one sided feelings have given you the need to not give constructive criticism or constructive advice
Constructive criticism/advice is not always what you want to hear. THat doesn't mean it isn't constructive. It may not have been what you wanted to hear though.
Again, he’s still married, even if he is separated or has filed for divorce.

My advice? End your relationship until his divorce is finalized. Then both of you get into a good relationship counseling program and work out the issues.

I'm not saying this to be mean. Just that it will save you grief in the long run, believe it or not.

My questions are more--
1. Why did they seperate?
Because his wife didn't enjoy sex, and she wasn't intimate
2. Why hasn't HE filed for divorce?? If he is so adment on living with you or even dating other women--why is HE waiting on HER to file???
actually he is filing.. he never felt it was important before. To him it was just a financial issue as they worked out the details long ago.

3. What has he learned about himself and what part he played in the break up of his marriage?
he learned that talking about the problems gives at least the possibility of a resolution.. just expecting his wife to know what the problems are doesn't work.


4. And has he worked on those issues?
yes

5. Does he take at least half the responsibility
for his marriage ending? Or does he blame her?
yes

6. Since his seperation has he even attempted to reconcile with his wife?
No. He is positive that that will never happen and he does not want to any way. And both of them agree that they could not be happy together.

7. how will he react when you two begin to have struggles?
He has already told me that he believes in talking things through, and working through our problems.

8. would he run out on your relationship as well?? and just move in with the next woman??
[b]No.

Lany G.

Why don't the two of you want to get married?
I'm not saying you should...just trying to understand your situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Am I wrong to think this time it might work?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you mean by it working?"
You don't plan on marriage, so what to you would define success in terms of this relationship?

Also, do either of you want kids?
What are your goals in terms of the relationship?

Take care,
Smile

I agree with Chris' observation. It appears you both are living in fantasy land. You are also participating in immorality. I'm not being judgemental, just truthful. Your relationship is based on deception. At least wait until he is divorced before shacking up. Your current conduct is a recipe for disaster.

Well, I for one am very dissapointed in this web site. It must be the 'Religion' getting in the way of practical answers and advice that might be brought to me by another discussion forum.
I am not against religion, but we live in the here and now world that man has given us, or that we have given ourselfs. We can love God, and try to live by his rules, but "man" has made it a little difficult in this 'real world society' to do all that God would do.
We are a couple in love, and I know him, and he knows me. We have both been through a lot in ours lifes (This life that 'God' invited us to) And we know when things feel right, and when love is real. Marriage doesn't even have to be an issue! ... It is (in today's society) only a piece of paper which is supposed to tell two people how much they care for one another!
I am not against marriage, but if we are not ready for "A tie of the knot" We should be looked down upon by the "better God followers of the world".... Yes, I am quite upset that people can be so one track minded when they don't even trully know us. And yes, I was very wrong for coming to this web site for advice when I should have known that "religion" would get in the way of true support and advice for this run down world we have made for ourselfs from Gods gift of life!!!

Thank you, for "nothing"

Lany

Let me preface this by saying we are not trying to dog on you. Just that you are in a bad situation (intentionally or otherwise) which will only get worse.

1. Why did they seperate?
Because his wife didn't enjoy sex, and she wasn't intimate
So to him, his marriage was not even worth ending before he started up with someone else... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

2. Why hasn't HE filed for divorce?? If he is so adment on living with you or even dating other women--why is HE waiting on HER to file???
actually he is filing.
Have you seen any actual paperwork or did he just say he is going to file? I doubt he has even seen a lawyer.
Believe it or not, something like 20% of people who separate, never do any paperwork.

he never felt it was important before. To him it was just a financial issue as they worked out the details long ago.
THe financial issue sounds like a BIG detail to me.

8. would he run out on your relationship as well?? and just move in with the next woman??
No.
Why wouldn't he?
He lied to you about him being married. Yes, it was a lie if he DIDN'T tell you. And no, he didn't "forget" he was married or think it was not important to bring it up with you.

<small>[ December 19, 2003, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Well, I for one am very dissapointed in this web site.
Sorry you feel that way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But just because you didn’t hear what you wanted does not mean we are giving “bad” or “wrong” advice.

It must be the 'Religion' getting in the way of practical answers and advice
The answers you received are based on reality of your situation and what happens to relationships as yours, not on religion.

I am not against religion, but we live in the here and now world that man has given us, or that we have given ourselfs. We can love God, and try to live by his rules, but "man" has made it a little difficult in this 'real world society' to do all that God would do.
So your motto is, “since man screwed things up, screw God”?

We are a couple in love, and I know him, and he knows me.
Yeah, your relationship is “special” and it has to be “right”. Never heard that one before.
He felt the same way when he got married to his present wife too. (but he’ll tell you he got married because he felt he owed it to her or something like that.)

Marriage doesn't even have to be an issue!
But it IS an issue and he is still married!

Yes, I am quite upset that people can be so one track minded when they don't even trully know us.
After hearing of situations like yours many, many times with all the same comments as yours, there is not much difference in the situations.

And yes, I was very wrong for coming to this web site for advice
The main issue is THAT HE IS MARRIED! And this is a pro-active marriage builders site.

Tell ya’ what. You leave him, tell him to get a divorce and when it is COMPLETE you guys can get back together. Then I believe you will have more support for your relationship

I should have known that "religion" would get in the way of true support and advice for this run down world we have made for ourselfs from Gods gift of life!!!
You try to use God and say it’s “mans” fault for screwing everything up. Yes it is, but it is up to “man” to make it a better place by doing their best to live in Gods will. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you, for "nothing"
You got plenty. Not what you wanted but so what? As I said above, “just because you didn’t hear what you wanted does not mean we are giving “bad” or “wrong” advice.”

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Marriage doesn't even have to be an issue! ... It is (in today's society) only a piece of paper which is supposed to tell two people how much they care for one another!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why did you come to a "marriage builders" forum if marriage isn't an issue? I'm really confused by that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
FYI, I'm agnostic. If there is a god, I don't care what he has to say about your relationship or mine.
I can see why you were defensive. Some of the comments were not very appropriate for someone new here. I'm sorry that you were offended, but I agree with Chris. You may not have gotten what you wanted to hear, and I think there was a bit too much of an attacking approach, but there are some really important messages from people who are familiar with your kind of situation.

Good luck,
Smile

This ( Basic Concepts, Question & Answer Column, and Articles) is what Marriage Builders is about.

He says he is in love with you then ask to see the divorce papers. If there are NO divorce papers, then you know he is lying. And why do you not want to get married to this man after his divorce is final? Is it HIM that does not want to marry you? Does he plan on living with you as long as things seem good and then moving onto another woman?

Lany:

Yes maybe there were some "hard" answers that you didn't want to hear. But realistically your situation is not a positive one.

Living with a married man is not healthy for you emotionally nor is it wise for him. You see, you could now become the subject of a very dirty divorce. If his wife has decided to "get even" she could drag you through this entire mess.

Also, you are going on strictly the info he has given you regarding the end of his marriage. Have you point blank asked him if he had an affair because of the lack of intimacy in his marriage. It is common for this to happen you know.

Also, just because "we have messed up this world" doesn't mean it's okay for us to set aside God's law an live as we choose.

Go do some digging. Statistics for relationship survival are decreased in couples who live together prior to marriage.

Also you said, "there are no plans to marry". I have a question, why would you emotionally bond yourself by intercourse with a man you aren't interested in marrying.

Lany, I'm not being judgemental, but honey you have something amiss in you if you keep finding yourself involved with marriage men.

Are you fearful of a long term relationship so you involve yourself with men who are legally unable to commit?

Unfortunately what you have done is written a huge receipe for disaster and the likely hood of this relationship going anywhere but to hell in a handbasket is slim to none.

A still married man after a 2 year separation is avoiding something (most likely losing a ton of money). BTW are there children involved from his wife? Is he willing to "dismiss" them as quickly as his wife?

Lany, I'm giving you the best advice I can. Run for your emotional life. Get away from this guy and guard your heart. One of the first questions you should ask any man you are attracted to is "Are you married?" The reason is this is the 2nd attraction and relationship you have been in with a married man.

All I can say is that once a deceiver, usually always a deceiver to an extent and once a cheater, always a cheater. If he did it to her, believe me when I tell you, (no matter what line of I love you he as filled you with) always a cheater.

(BTW No I am not divorced and no my husband has never had an affair, and no we didn't live together before marriage, and no we didn't have sex prior to marriage either.)

Can I just add, that appart from the religious aspect, marriage is not just a 'piece of paper'. It's a legal contract bestowing specific rights and obligations. A girlfriend is not the same as a wife. You say you've known him a few months? Why not slow the relationship waaaay down untill his divorce comes through?

Has your partner got a legal seperation in place?

Has your partner any children from this marriage?

Lany,

You sound like a very defensive person. I think you have to learn one big thing in life first: TAKE ADVICE. Advice are not always something you want to hear. If you cannot take advice, do not task advice. Some advice can be really difficult to swollow, especially when you are actually doing something not very correct/appropraite and people around you simply see the problems and want to guide you to a right way. Of course you have to use your 'brian' to analyse all the advice. OK, back to the subject.

I have been there - lived with a married man. I was going to out with that man nearly two years before moving in together. He is married to his ex-wife for 15 years and their reason for breaking up, well, it is his ex-wife filed a divorce because she cannot stand her husband having another woman, as simple as that.

So, now let me tell you some facts (which has happened to me, for your reference). That man, let me call him 'matt', told his mates honestly that he will definitely not file a divorce if his ex-wife didn't because he is very happy with having an old home (the home with his wife) and a new babe (me) who is young and providing 'refreshment' from his 15-year marriage. He even refused to sign a name on a divorce paper so they ended up in fighting for (they have a kid, share some joint savings) two years when the judge finally void their marriage.

"Matt" always told me he loves me very much, always soaked me in these loving & sweety words, especially when he sensed that I wasn't happy about his marital status. He was very good at telling me, "Not to worry darling, very soon when I got divorce I can marry you". However, behind my back, he told his mater, "Jesus, I don't want to get divorced, I don't want to get married again, I want to enjoy Bachelor" (I wasn't aware of these conversation at that very moment, when I realised that I have already asked for a break up!!) His meaning of being a Bachelor is not really having no partner. He wants a stable parter who can share his life duties, has sex whenever he wants, share life expenses...etc., but he wants to have other 'adventures' because in his mind, he is not married to me so he does not have to fulfill any marital duties.

"Matt" was quite similar to your man: he didn't disclose his marital status until one day he feels very guilty about fooling me around (well, whether he was REALLY guilty or not...I am not sure and I am not interested anymore) So, from the very beginning he was cheater. His history is really worse - you said you man has several relationships before meeting you. Well, obviously he kept several mistress before you and you are, I am sorry to use this word but it's pretty true, also his another mistress. You call yourself 'his girlfriend', but the real word is "his mistress" because he is a married man. Men are very happy about having mistresses. They are bored with his wife in sex at home, so keep a yound babe as mistress - heaven! "Matt" was the same, had many mistresses before I came into his life. And, no change, he still went out and hunt for more 'dishes'. Once a cheater, always a cheater. I did not believe that until I met "Matt". Life lesson taught me this 'theory'.

The reason for your man divorcing his wife is because she doesn't enjoy sex?? Christ! So, how about one day, you become you don't enjoy sex as much as now, do you really expect him to leave you and tell you, "Darling, you don't enjoy sex so I'd better off??" Is it really a reason? What do you tell about this man, honestly, from your heart? SO, do you dare to tell us: he is not a man who is looking for "sex" and that's why he is happy to keep a mistress?

Tell you one more life experience: A married chased me (after breaking up with Matt) some years ago and he was really in love with me. (I never started any relationship with this man but I told him once, "I cannot have any relationship with you because you are married. So, talk about it one day when you are completely single.) This man, immediately went home and asked for a divorce and filed the divorce paper and get the divorce within half a year (his ex-wife didn't want to sign the paper so they have to wait for one year according to our law). Then he came back to me and asked if we can try.

So, what tells you here: If a man is really keen on being with you (as much as he TOLD you how much he loves you), he will get rid of his previous relationship and be with you.

Jessmoore

LANY, remember that no two people are alike, nor are any two situations.

Did I miss something? How do we know he was a cheater? We just know that he's divorcing his wife. At least he had the cajones to break it off with her.

And given that the marriage is history to all concerned, it seems that "marriage builders" is a perfect place for a woman to visit as they build a new relationship with a man who has been married before.

Give the girl a break! My mother married my "stepfather" (I phrase it this way because I consider him my father) not long after divorcing my father, who took her for granted. They have been together for 28 years, and are very happy. According to some naysayers here, they never had a chance. I am happy to report that they are happy!

Lany, the only worry I have about this fellow is his not telling you something that important. If there are no other examples of duplicity or falsehood, then relax and give him a chance. Good luck.

Lany - Religion doesn't really get in the way. You seem to be looking for things/ideas that 'feel good'. I'm a man and any women that I was with has 'felt good' - literaly. So he's sticking around, avoiding responsible actions, treading water. If you just want to feel good get drunk, stoned, etc! There are costs/benifits to one's actions. That's not always a popular idea, but is supported in observations of lifes experiences and most religions.
What type of answers would have avoided your 'disappointment'. It is clear you both have issues and choose to ignore them. That's your choice, and may feel fine, but isn't a sound footing to build a relationship on IMHO. I think you can do better.
ATB!
Mike P

Hey folks...just FYI. Lany hasn't posted since Dec. 19th when she thanked us all for nothing. I wouldn't waste your time responding to someone who isn't going to appreciate or even read your thoughts.
Take care,
Smile