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#64856 03/11/05 08:52 PM
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I am wondering how common it is for men to look at porn while there married or involved in a relationship? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Also, how does the women approach the subject to him if he hides this?

#64857 03/11/05 09:11 PM
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Hiding it is not a healthy thing....
Its better to be open.
Let us know more if you wish,

Nick

#64858 03/15/05 07:54 PM
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I think the reason he was hiding this is because he was afraid of my reaction.My first response when I found was anger, then hurt. I just need someone to talk to so I can understand more. I don't know how common this is. I want to know more of why men do this.

#64859 03/16/05 08:47 AM
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It doesn't matter what others here think, or if porn is considered "normal" for men. The only thing that matters is how you feel about it.

You should not feel like you have to compromise on this if you don't want to. I don't believe in ultimatums, but I do believe in voting with my feet....If more women gave men the heave ho who made a habit of using porn, then men would know...hmm, I can either have a REAL woman next to me, or I can have a fake, made up one. Too many men get to have their cake and eat it too because women won't chuck-em...

#64860 03/16/05 09:27 AM
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He hides it because it is a secret world, and he knows that ultimately its wrong. Do some research on pornography addiction, and there is alot of information to help you. I think each man is different in his strength to control himself, but with mine...I had to give the ultimatim... I love my husband, he loves me..and we are working on this by FINALLY (after 13 years) being able to actually talk about it together.

You deserve his respect, you are his wife...and if you lay the foundation early maybe he'll stop for you.

The porn hurts me...but when you have a house full of children...the time comes when you break the cycle else it will get passed on to your little ones. My husband got porn addicted by sneaking and looking his fathers dirty magazines and video tapes. See what I mean???

Be strong... Love makes a Family. He wont want to lose you over the porn, trust me.

#64861 03/16/05 02:45 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TheGraduate:
<strong>

You should not feel like you have to compromise on this if you don't want to. I don't believe in ultimatums, but I do believe in voting with my feet....If more women gave men the heave ho who made a habit of using porn, then men would know...hmm, I can either have a REAL woman next to me, or I can have a fake, made up one. Too many men get to have their cake and eat it too because women won't chuck-em... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I always love your tone Graduate, so emphatheic. Well, maybe if we'd have REAL women who treated us like men... I suppose one could phrase it that way too no?

Shandy,

It doesn't matter what we think, it matters what you think and feel. You need to find a way to discuss this with him, and let him know honestly what you feel, without putting him down at the same time.

If his bothers you, and you are meeting his sexual needs, he needs to know that, and make a decision based on that. When it comes down to it, The Graduate is right, most men will take a real woman who treats them with respect, love, and meets thier need, over porn, any day.

<small>[ March 16, 2005, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: OHCopLover ]</small>

#64862 03/16/05 03:51 PM
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...and if men didn't view relationships as a tool for getting built-in domestic and childcare services, maybe they'd get more "action"...

#64863 03/17/05 05:20 AM
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Hey graduate

The TradeMark you use makes me wonder "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. -- Thomas Jefferson"

Porn in secrecy is not healthy... it is not for me to judge if porn it is right or wrong. My point is anything in secrecy is wrong.

The question was not if porn is right or wrong... I understand the question to be... is it right that the porn is hidden, "is it common".

I do not think it is common, I think it is periodic.

Nick

<small>[ March 17, 2005, 04:22 AM: Message edited by: Pick on Nick ]</small>

#64864 03/17/05 08:46 AM
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Pick on Nick,

I'm not judging the merits (or lack) of porn at all... I could really care less what consenting adults do in their free time. What I DO care about is the double standard applied to men's behavior. Usually, the defense is that it's "common" for men to use porn. Well, so what. If you are a woman who doesn't want to be with a man who uses porn, it doesn't matter if it is common or not. I could really care less what his motivation is for using it either. People spend way too much time trying to figure out other people's motivations rather than just focusing on the behavior itself.

It was my impression from the initiator of this thread that she was hurt by her H's use of porn...I only encouraged her to go by HER OWN feelings on it, and not be encouraged to overlook it just because some people say it is "common" for men. My first H asked for an open marriage (HA!) after we were married for a year..I declined. Just because something is out in the "open" doesn't mean she has any obligation to go along with it. Doing it in secret, well, that would be worse, I suppose. Only because it delays the inevitable, which is her option to choose to accept it or not. Still, the end result is usually the same. Most people don't agree to accept certain behavior in their spouse just because they decide to not keep it a secret.

My quote about Thomas Jefferson...well, I believe apathy leads to alot of bad things... Maintaining intellectual, financial, political, and spiritual freedom requires effort.

#64865 03/18/05 01:24 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TheGraduate:
<strong> ...and if men didn't view relationships as a tool for getting built-in domestic and childcare services, maybe they'd get more "action"... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Geez, that is harsh! What about those of us who ARE the built-in domestic and childcare providor that don't get "action"?

Not condoning porn, nor condemning it, I couldn't care less one way or the other what other people do together in the privacy of their own relationships.

How 'bout this one?
Maybe if more women didn't see a man as a paycheck, and put out more they wouldn't have to worry about cheating?

sounds as bad as your statement doesn't it?

#64866 03/17/05 02:34 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TheGraduate:
<strong> ...and if men didn't view relationships as a tool for getting built-in domestic and childcare services, maybe they'd get more "action"... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hehe, you bark up the wrong tree.

There are those of us who do all the domestic relations, and child care, and still "get none."

But, that is off topic and a subject for another thread.

You really need to let go of some of your bitterness

#64867 03/17/05 08:47 PM
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Bottom line is porn is evil and will destroy and change the mind. Do not allow it in your home. Filter the internet with Promise Keepers filtering service, it is awesome and it is cheap, around 5 bucks a month. Work on your intimacy with your husband and create your excitement between the both of you, it is unhealthy to rely on outside sources. Talk to your husband respectfully about it then pray together.

#64868 03/18/05 09:08 AM
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reborn man,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How 'bout this one?
Maybe if more women didn't see a man as a paycheck, and put out more they wouldn't have to worry about cheating?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with that too. Anytime a man or woman views their significant other as a means to avoid the responsibility and work required to justify their existence on this planet, I consider them parasites...The most "efficient" relationships in some people's views (man = breadwinner, woman = domestic servant) *I* view as mutually parasitic and unhealthy. But that's just me...

#64869 03/18/05 09:22 AM
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There are plenty of filtering software packages available that don't send money to oppressive anti-woman groups like Promise Keepers...I support the idea of encouraging men to be more responsible partners, however, they predicate this with the demand that women be submissive.

Sorry, I think men need to be responsible for the sake of being responsible. That is the bare minimum required to sit at the table, the bare minimum required to even enter a relationship...If selling my integrity and agreeing to be some guy's slave is what these guys expect in return for them being a decent human being, then sorry. NO DEAL...

coplover,

It ain't bitterness....it is reality. I'd give you the same advice I gave the initiator of this thread...if you are in a relationship with a lazy sad-sack who uses you as a cash-cow, then chuck her too. My current BF used to be married to a woman who just HATED working and didn't have sex with him for over a year...after 12 yrs of marriage, she dumped him for a doctor who would provide the lifestyle she wanted. Funny, her new H is a total A-hole who is mean to her kids (my BF's kids), but that's ok. She doesn't have to hold a job. I bet he never gets any either. I have nothing nice to say about women like that.

#64870 03/19/05 01:06 AM
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Grad., are you for rebuilding marriages?

#64871 03/18/05 08:38 PM
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In general? Sure. Do I think all marriages should be saved? Nope.

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Hi Shandy...

I'm happy to offer my opinion about this, I'm a guy so perhaps my opinion would be valuable for you.

First off, to understand the average man's facination with pornography, it is essential to understand how he first used it. When a man is going through puberty, pornography provides (in my mind) an essential - though admittedly false - method of learning about sex in general.

By looking at pornography, the young male has an opportunity to understand what the female body looks like, to develop a sexual preference and create objects of fantasy - all important aspects of growing and learning about oneself.

Since pornography is by defination unrealistic and itself a fantasy, a man that is unguided in this learning experience can foster unrealistic expectations from real life partners - but a properly guided young man can use the experience to grow in a healthy manner. New experiences in life will help the man seperate fact from reality and he will eventually have a healthy sexual identity.

Admittedly, it would be better to have the father of the man actually sit down and discuss these matters with his son, but for many young men this isn't an option. At the very least it does provide information that prevents embarrassing "What the hell is that?" comments later on in life.

So, how does this apply to the grown adult male?

It has been my personal observation that men (and women too, but this isn't the point of this post) are nothing more than boys with responsibility. If a boy had interest in cars, the man that boy becomes has an interest in cars. I had an interest in taking thinks apart and fixing them - this personality trait had to be accepted by my wife when she first encountered it - at least until I proved that I could actually fix things instead of just breaking them.

Thus a boy who was interested in pornography, ends up as a man interested in it. There are many different reasons for this though.

A man has no more of a complete understanding about the world and himself than a boy, he is just more confident in what he does know. Therefore, a man who watches porn from a research background (ie. "boy, I wonder what [obscure sexual activity] is about - let's see...") is simply satisifying his natural curosity in a manner that doesn't cause his wife physical discomfort.

I will refrain from offering a personal anticdote for this.

Considering the need that a couple has for both fidelity and sexual excitement - a desire to watch porn for this reason should be appauded and experienced mutually.

"Hey honey, you've gotta see this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />"

Of course there are other reasons that a man might look at porn that aren't so easy to understand. One is simply to acheive arousal. Simply put, pornography is to some men as romance novels are to some women.

Men know that women love the trashy sex scenes in romance novels. I learned at a young age that if you lay a paperback romance novel on it's spine and let it open naturally, it will open to the sex scene - indicating a well read passage. (Imagine my horror when this trick worked at my grandmothers house <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />.) If some women like to fantasize with romance novels, it should come as no surprise that some men do it with porn. Again, if it is done without addiction and it introduces their spouses to new techniques that they enjoy, it is a healthy (albiet a bit gross) pastime. Especially if you (the wife) are on a business trip, and assuming - you know - that the kids aren't home wondering why daddy won't open his office door. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Finally, the bad reason that men look at porn. Ok, there are a number of bad reasons that men look at porn - but we are assuming that it's your spouse and your spouse isn't a wife-beating woman hater who watches porn to stop from raping and killing prostitutes. (I watch too much CourtTV - serial killers are a weird lot.) Also assuming that he isn't simply addicted to it.

That reason, is because you aren't meeting his sexual needs. He doesn't want to bother you with his request (over, and over, and over again) so he satisifies himself alone. Eventually he might learn that it isn't the orgasm that he wants, it the emotional need to be with you sexually that an orgasm in front of a computer screen or VCR isn't going to fix. But that self awareness takes a long time to develop and you'll likely notice this as a general depression long before he'll know the reason he's depressed.

So mow that you know my feelings about it - it's important to do the next step. Ask him! Asking other people how your husband feels is like me going to my best male friend and asking him why my wife doesn't like - I don't know, let say golf. He may have a surprisingly wise answer, but even still, it pales in comparison to the direct source.

If he watches to research things you might like, watch a few with him. There are movies made for women that might actually teach you a thing or two, and you might enjoy learning a few things with him. If he does it to arouse himself, well hell I don't know, make a movie with him or something. If his needs aren't being met, look at the section on this site about that. It's important to many guys reguardless or whether you understand why or not.

Finally, realize that everything I just wrote is totally full of crap. So you should save yourself from people who know nothing (like me) and just ask him directly. I would recommend that the discussion not happen over Thanksgiving dinner.

Hope any of that helped...

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There are plenty of filtering software packages available that don't send money to oppressive anti-woman groups like Promise Keepers...I support the idea of encouraging men to be more responsible partners, however, they predicate this with the demand that women be submissive.

Sorry, I think men need to be responsible for the sake of being responsible. That is the bare minimum required to sit at the table, the bare minimum required to even enter a relationship...If selling my integrity and agreeing to be some guy's slave is what these guys expect in return for them being a decent human being, then sorry. NO DEAL...


TheGraduate - spoken like a true nonbeliever who has NO CLUE what biblical submission is like or what it means for either husband or wife. I pity you and any man that may come your way, and anyone who wants to put much stock in your opinions regarding marriage that result from your warped "graduate" degree in marital vows, commitment, and love.

Just MY humble opinion.

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I think the reason he was hiding this is because he was afraid of my reaction.My first response when I found was anger, then hurt. I just need someone to talk to so I can understand more. I don't know how common this is. I want to know more of why men do this.

shandy - pornography and its use is very common. The primary "reason" is that sex, and the "sex drive" in men is testosterone driven and usually MUCH higher than it is in women. Add to that the FACT that men are VERY visual with respect to sex and "what turns them on" and you begin to understand why Victoria's Secret, "Gentlemen's Clubs," and provocative movies (including softcore and hardcore porn) thrive. They appeal to the innate "high sex drive" and visualization (fantasy appeal) of men.

Things like Chippendales and Playgirl will also let you know that it's not "unknown" among women either.

The "bottom line,".......What "may" be acceptable or tolerable for single man is no longer true for a man who has CHOSEN to "put aside" his "single rights" in exhange for "exclusivity" with you. Here is the REAL bottom line on pornography, adultery, etc..... "Forsaking ALL others and keeping myself only unto you."

That's a commitment and promise that a man makes to a woman, to himself, and to God when he chooses to get married "until death do us part." It has NOTHING to do, from that point forward, with the old lie, "if it feels good, do it." It is a willing submission of "me, me, me" first to YOUR needs, and vice versa.

If your husband is deeply into porn, then he needs professional counseling because it is just as destructive as a physical affair with another woman.

God bless.

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Shandy, my answer as a recovered sex addict is that yes it is common for some men to view pornography in a relationship or marriage, but longterm it can be destructive to the relationship.

As far as talking to him, be firm with your facts and state them clearly what you know him to be doing, but do NOT be critical while stating the facts. (NO EMOTIONS) Then explain how this behavior hurts you, but try not to focus to much on him, but the behavior. It is the behavior that is the problem. Explain you are there to help, love, support, but you cannot tolerate something that demeans you and makes you feel uncomfortable. Remember, you cannot control his behavior, so don't tell him what he can and cannot do, but instead tell him something like if you cannot stop the use of the pornography then I am going to seek out counseling to see how I need to deal with the issue. Because then you are controlling your actions not his.

I hope that all helps, and God bless.
Art


Art Romans 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. Married to my beautiful and gracious wife 26 years 1 son 1 daughter both grown In SA recovery since July 2003 Christian faith
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