Their are a couple of things I would say here that some will likely have a problem with.
<br>First, from the posts so far we do not know the situation other than the addiction problems. We certainly know nothing of the relationship between John and his wife in other areas, how good or bad it is as far as needs being met etc. so at this point I feel we cannot make educated comments on that. I have seen family members experience AA and the alanon group for family members of AA members. The program seems to work for a lot of people. One thing I have seen happen though is I have seen people trade one addiction for another, drugs or alcohol for
<br>twelve step programs, some to the point of neglecting family and work for the sake of "the group" I must admit it is better to be addicted to "group" than to substances but from what I have seen I do know what John is talking about when he mentions acting without freewill etc. and acting like an automaton. The other issue I take with AA is the concept of "higher power" that can be anything. There is only one higher power and one true God. In the post just before this one KenS says he developed a relationship with, notice the order, the Group, the Kids, God and he says most importantly himself. I feel that our biblical order of loyalty is clear, God, family, self.
<br>At the same time I agree with KenS in that I feel your wife will come around. You know how pushing someone to get clean never works and they have to get past denial etc. I think the same dynamic is at work here. Give her some space, let her get her confidence in her sobriety and be thankful for it, then see what happens. Count your blessings that an affair hasn't occured and that you both are on the right track

What a great question! I wish I knew the answer, because my husband doesn't have sex with me very much, but he sure gets a charge out of pornography. I love sex, I'm attractive, and yet.......... Maybe making love to his wife is too intimate? Too much work? I don't know.

Kristy,
<p>When I found my husband looking at s on the internet it hurt me deeply. I sat him down and explained to him how it made me feel and asked him why. His answer was curiousity and the fact that I was eight months pregnant and not responsive enough for his needs. Together we made a pact that I would listen to him more and try harder to meet his needs. He promised to not look at any more s and gave me full control by putting a lock on the computer that only I have the password to bypass. If your husband is looking at it then tell him how it makes you feel. Keeping it inside will let him think that you are ok with it. But realize that some husbands are not willing to give it up and then you have to think if you are willing to leave things as they are.
<p>Steph

Kristy,
<p>Very important question. I was caught up that mess and my real sex life suffered for it. Because I was sharing my sexual energies with my wife and myself she never experience the passion she thought she should have and sometimes after viewing that junk and relieving myself, I could not make love to her and went to sleep. Over time she believed I did not love her or want her and when another man said the right things, she responded and had an affair with him. Porn not only retards a man's sex drive but it retards the creative thinking he needs to come up with ideas on pleasing you and meeting all your needs.
<p>Porn is simply a way for a man to reject his wife. This is the truth and I suffered for it. It is also an addiction and it does not fulfil any real need a man can have. That is your job and getting caught up in that mess is robbing your marriage blind. If he wants erotic, freakiness, or whatever, you should discuss it. Today I truly regret the time I wasted looking at that junk. Now I spend the time fantasizing about me wife, and showering her with my love. Because of this real passion I have no need to look at other women. She is all I need.
<p>Tell him to look carefully at what it is doing to him. Check out this book called "An affair of the Mind" by Laurie Hall or go to the Promise Keepers website. There is a lot about the effects or porn. If you want a marriage full of love and joy, as God intended, you must get your man away from that junk. If you need to hear more include your email. A true man loves his wife completely. Also this is not a reflection on you. Afterall you have a personality and real flesh.

Eugene D
<p>Your post is very interesting as I hadn't a clue as to how damaging pornography could be. By your post I have had my eyes opened and am interested in reading more on it. I looked up the Promise Keepers website but had great difficulty locating the information you have referred to in your post. I was only able to find three testimonies which made a reference to pornography but nothing more (not to belittle the testimony, by apologies.) Would you kindly direct me as to how I can locate this iformation you are referring to?
<p>Thank you.

The website is really the "New Man" magazine found at http://www.newmanmag.com/feature.htm
<br>There you will find articles dealing with male sexuality and porn. This is something we are dealing with at my church. In fact I will be giving a talk on it in August. The worst thing a man can do to his wife is to reject her and the best thing he could do is to be addicted to her. Porn will support the rejection because the man is involved in a self-satisfying activity that does not involve giving. Porn also creates an addiction to masturbation or instant satisfaction leading to love making that has very little duration and not very satisfying to the wife. Porn also leads to increased depravity and could lead to involvement with prostitution. It generates a never ending thirst for sexual fulfilment that can never happen. It is the wife and the love between a man and a woman that begins to provide the satisfaction that sex can bring. How porn can be justified, I will never know. To me the most exciting thing about my marriage is to look at the small things about my wife and get turned on. Her nails, her smile, her voice, to begin with. Before I could not even sit and write a love letter to my wife. Porn robbed me of my creativity. Now I sit and come up with creative things to do to make life exciting.

EugeneD
<p>Thank you for your openness and the passing on of the website. I looked into it and it was wonderful and very exciting for me as a woman to see with my own eyes that men have available to them such wonderful information. I've never looked at a gentleman's magazine before nor have I ever heard men discuss such things. This was wonderful for me to have found and I am passing it on to my friends so they can share it with their husbands as well.
<p>Thank you ever so much!

I have always enjoyed reading the questions and answers and wondered if I would ever be in any of these positions. As of last night I am. When my husband goes out of town - work related - he has been involved in some self gratifying behavior - movies, etc. I found out last night and I am furious. We have been married for almost 2 years and we have always had open communication - even about this topic and I would ask him how he did being out of town and unaccountable and he would say fine and no problem and you are all I need, etc. Well he was lying. He says this happens only about once every six weeks or so and it started several years ago and has now become a habit and very hard to overcome. Again I am furious for the lying about it because he had opportunities to tell me the truth and I am livid that he is doing these things. In my mind I see this as betrayal and with the lying about it. I grew up with a dad that always had that stuff around the house and had affairs and my mom has stuck by him. I said I would never stay married to someone who is involved with any part of this I didn't care what the reasoning for it was. I know this is very harsh and very cold but right now I literally don't care one thing for my husband and the funny thing is that if the situation was reversed and I was having an affair he would walk out the second he found out and he would care what excuse I would have for my behavior but for his behavior I am supposed to listen to excuses and believe him when he is really trying to fight this thing. I know marriage is about working together to solve the problems you go through and be there for each other but right now I don't feel like doing anything other than wishing he would leave. and he also says his behavior has nothing to do with me - yeah right. He also says that I have no idea what men go through and they all deal with this. I feel he should be stronger than that and I see him as being very weak now and have no respect for him. He also says I am blowing this whole incident out of proportion - I grew up with this and I saw what the small things turned into and I hate it and now hear my christian husband who I was just crazy about is now doing the same things. I am just at a loss - and I would appreciate any comments from anybody. Thank you.

Kim,
<p>I feel exactly as you do, my husband also says that his viewing porn has nothing to do with me. I feel like I'm just not enough. I am becoming almost as obsessed with checking the history file to see if he's been surfing porn as he is with viewing it, I don't even want to leave the house because I know the minute I'm out the door he'll be running to the computer! I guess I will have to decide if I can live with it or not, and right now I just don't know if I can, but I have 2 young children to consider.
<br>

Kim and Kristy,
<p>This is not the time to abandon your husbands. If they were just starting you would be justified in taking it personal. Now, they are more than likely to be addicted to viewing and releasing themselves. It is a never ending cycle of unfulfillment because the activity can never be complete without the spiritual interaction that goes on between a couple during love making, or the blessings brought on by God to complete the act. All that is happening is wasted time, not to mention the guilt and shame that they could be experiencing. Now you have to deal with them as if they were alcholics. They will spend their last dime on membership to a sex site. Don't be fooled, this is serious stuff and you have to treat them as if they are alcoholics. Run away and you would have missed the oppurtunity to spend the rest of your life with someone you love. Help them get treatment and love them. That is your challenge.

EugeneD
<p>I really value your thoughts and what you have been through. What you say sounds perfect but the problem with the porn husband is much as it is with any alcholic...how do you get them to admit that it IS a problem? My husband understands I don't like it but feels that because he is a limited user (and the famous excuse that it could be worse cause he isn't like some other guy....) that I am wrong to be worried. Even when I showed him information about it from a very caring approach and not "here, see, I was right..." he still took it as "I get your point..."
<p>The husbands always get our point but what they dont' get is that even if all they ever do is look and relieve themselves (as opposed to strip joints and picking up prostitutes)that this too is so painful because of the insecurities it creates in us.
<p>How do we persuade them that even if they think we are stupid, they should give it up when it is something that they have no desire to give up and are sorry it hurts us "but...."?
<p>I compare it to when I smoked. My husband hated it and didn't want me to do it. I couldn't stop. I didn't want to hurt him and wanted to respect his feelings but couldn't give it up cause I wasn't ready. I did quit finally but again, it wasn't when he needed me too it was when I was ready to. I can't help but feel the same thing is true with the porn. When HE is ready he will give it up and not when I need him to.
<p>Any advice?

Marie,
<p>The central solution is ones relationship with God. With Jesus in my life and my acceptance of his control over my life this thing was brought under control. I remember getting on the internet and viewing the junk, relieving myself then feeling extremely guilty. I remember buying playboy, penthouse, and doing the same thing then throwing the mags in the trash the next day. Waste of time and money etc. Unfortunately I did not recognize the full impact of my personal secret until I discovered how it affected my wife and my job. You know about my wife but I lost my creativity at work and have been going through the motions. If it affected my job then it must have affected me as a father also. Remember when you and your husband first met, he couldn't stop thinking about you, now he has a million women to think about and see when he is on the internet.
<p>The other key is love, this is very important. As with your smoking, it took time, this too will take time. If you lovingly show him how it is affecting you and the marriage and that will help. He must understand that his love for porn cannot exist together with his pure love for you. Ask him to show you how this positively builds your marriage. Tell him to let you fulfill those needs. He has to realize that his needs can be met by you, totally. If you are members of a church, go talk to your pastor.
<p>Finally, get some info on the backgrounds of some of the sex offenders in jail and see if porn was part of their lives. Cite some of the TV preachers who got in trouble. Porn!! Right now I tell my wife and my girls to keep fashion mags away from my son, he is six. I have become extremely protective of he and and the girls because of the hell I have been through. That is how serious this thing is.

Eugene,
<p>I would appreciate your input on my personal situation with my husband since you have a better idea why he does this than I do. I am wondering if there's anything I can do to keep him from feeling the urge to view porn. This has been an issue through out our 10 yr marriage. He tells me all the usual excuses; it's a guy thing, men and women are wired different,at least he doesn't cheat on me(I feel like he is) like other guys do their wives, it has nothing to do with me. He says I'm trying to control him by telling him what he can and can't do. No matter how I've approached this issue I always end up the one that has the problem, he wont admitt he's doing anything wrong. So my question to you is: Am I doing everything I can as his wife/lover? Should I lavish him in affection, sex, visual stimulation, will any of this help curb his appetite for porn? I am 7 yrs younger than he is, I'm no Pamela Anderson by any stretch of the imagination but but I am attractive and thin, but not perfect for sure! I don't really know if any of that matters or not. Please give me your thoughts, if you have any on this.

Kristy,
<p>Your first response is to think you are the problem and that he wants more. That is far from the truth. Sure there are things a couple can do to spice things up but they have to be mentally and spiritually connected to enjoy the spice. You simply becoming what he is looking at in the pictures will not help. He has to change. If you do all those things and he does not change you will begin to wonder if other men will find you attractive and guess where that will lead to.
<p>You husband's involvement with porn has to be looked at as a spiritual problem. I always knew that it was wrong and this was not the type of thing God wanted me to be looking at. Let me be honest with you. There were times that I would be on the internet and my wife was asleep naked in bed. She did her part because she is the most beautiful woman in the world. I look at her toes and get turned on.
<p>Your husband can get the same stimulation by smelling your perfume or from a simple touch from you. Porn desensitizes him, stifles his creative thoughts, and creates a wall between you two. Simply saying that he not stepping out is irrelevant. His fantasies alone are adulterous because he visualizes having sex with the women in the pictures and the Bible causes that adultery. This is called an affair of the mind because the results are the same. Decreased sex drive, love making becomes raggedy, lose of mental and spiritual connection with you. Not to mention the time spent looking at the junk.
<p>Go visit the NewMan website at http://www.newmanmag.com/feature.htm and read about what porn really does to a person. My recommendation is that you get him to go see a pastor or Christian counselor who will point him back to the basics of marriage and point out the destructive nature of porn.
<p>Not that I am free of the junk, my wife gets all my attention. I am crazy about her. I have never been so turned on in my life by anyone. All she has to do is to call me at work and say the right words and I am no good for the day. This is what God wants for couples, to enjoy each other at all times. Porn corrupts the process. Remember you husband married you because he loved the way you look, talk, smile, etc. You are the same woman. He simply needs to get rid of the junk and pursue you more than he did when you first met. God bless you and don't give up.

Wow! I have been at this site for about 2 hours now reading and responding to the problems faced here. And yet another one applies to me...the problem of men and porn.
<br>My husband and I had a wonderful sex life in the beginning of our relationship...over the years (we have been together for 5 years) my sex drive has become almost nonexistant. Since we have had the computer (we bought it about 8 months ago) my husband has been visiting xxx sites...when I questioned him about it...he replied that he was looking for something that I might enjoy...since my sex drive is so low. I dont know what to think about that...we make beautiful love together (when I am in the mood), and I cant imagine why he is trying to 'spice' it up.
<br>Any comments? Any input would be helpful! Does my husband have a problem? An addiction?
<br>Thanks!

Kellian,
<p>I think you and your husband need to discuss openly why your sex drive is low. Are you turned by him, are you eating properly, are you bored? Try to find this out. If he was not on the internet but pursued you, how would you respond. Realize that the sex act is a culmination of your overall relationship. It is not just sex, it is you and him making eye contact, flirting with each other, doing things for each other, loving each other when you are apart. It should be driven by wanting to give moreso than feeling in the mood.
<p>As for his quest into the porn world, I have to say that he is making a big mistake. This can certainly result in being addicted to the junk. Isn't it amazing that technology is driven by porn. Imagine the VCR, Cable, and now the internet is really about delivering porn more efficiently to people. I truly believe that the devil is using this to help destroy our society.
<p>Anyway, the spice he needs is there in your marriage but evidently there is something going on and I would recommend that you find out why sex is no longer exciting to you and in the meantime get him away from the junk. He is playing with something that will have no real positive effect on him or your marriage.

eugeneD
<p>Thanks so much for your input...I guess I should have gone in to more detail about my husbands and my sex life. You see...we are very attracted to each other...and our marriage is quite strong in most aspects...while surfing the net looking for information on some health issues, I came across a 'checklist' of the signs of depression...I said yes to all but one of the signs of depression...the only one I answered no to was the one about suicide. I am starting to think that my problem is chemical, and that I may need to contact my doctor...and in answer to your questions...no i do not eat right...and I dont sleep well either...and yes, maybe I am a little bored...but not with my husband...I have been a stay home mother for almost 4 years now...and I find myself wishing for more time away from the house...and the kids...and yet I feel guilty when I go somewhere and leave the kids with a sitter. So Maybe there is a lot more here than I first thought...my husband and I talked for about 3 hours tonight...I told him about this site and asked that he visit it with me sometime...he wanted me to post his problem and see what people have to say. I will do that here and will also open a new discussion on the subject. My husband calls himself a "pervert...sex fiend", he looks at me, or thinks about me, or touches me and gets highly aroused. When he is in the mood and I say "I am not in the mood" he keeps after me...he says he tries to control his urges, but every time he touches me, he loses control. I dont think that he is a pervert at all...I think he may need some kind of medical help...but he says his problem is very embarassing. And he feels guilty for not being able to 'control' himself...but might I add.. that he is not attracted to other women the way he is to me...he has never had an affair, and the thought of one doesnt 'turn him on' at all. Any advice would be helpful!
<br>Thanks!
<br>

How is this overcome, when, how long does it take? How do you trust when that person is alone again under any circumstances. Can you do it without counseling and just accountability to a spouse when there is recognition that there is a problem by the other spouse? Is it really over or does it lurk when you are alone and unaccountable? What is necessary to make sure it doesn't happen again? How do you support and encourage and not worry all the time? Just a few questions. Thanks.

Please bare with the following four posts. I am a recovering sex and love addict and perhaps some may find it helpful. I have just separated from my wife of less than one year for the purpose of recovering from an addiction which I have had almost since the age of 10 or 11. I am a sex and love addict, and I hope the following will help some of you with the understanding that "addiction" is not necessarily what applies in each case.
<p>For me, sexual release through masturbation is, quite literally, a drug I have taken all my life to cover core issues that I am only now beginning to realize and learn about. For those of you thinking that you can change the behavior of your spouse by just "throwing the stuff away" and keeping watch over him, don't tease yourself. An addict will get his fix in different ways. I have a lifetime of images and memories that are on instant recall for self-pleasure. (And I used to think I didn't have a photographic memory!) I knew long ago that I had a problem when the woman I was dating at the time asked if I could "just stop it. If you really love me, you'll just stop doing it."
<br>

Pt 2: What I've learned since then is that I couldn't - at least not on my own. I too used to think, like many of your husbands have indicated, that I was "special!" "God gifted me with this incredible, insatiable sex drive. Some woman was sure going to be lucky when she found this sex expert!" Not so.
<p>The "love" part of the addiction comes from that "high" one gets in ANY new relationship. A sex and love addict will frequently live their lives thinking "if I can only find the RIGHT person, I will be completed!" What they are missing is that NO ONE can complete them, and they need to love and accept themselves - often times going through a lot of discovery and pain about things from their past that continue to haunt them unknowingly and leave them with a feeling of worthlessness. The active acting out with pornography and resultant release is one way I tried to make myself feel "whole" and complete. True, when I first met my wife, we had great sex and I thought all would be okay. Then, when the initial "buzz" and euphoria of the relationship died off and I entered "reality," I found myself stuck with the same "me" as before and my wife unable to "make me whole."
<br>