I love my husband dearly but I get so angry when he goes to sex sites all the time when He knows i dont like it. I like to watch porno movies with him it turns me on but why must he go to these sites to look at women when he has me? No I may not lok as good as they do but im his wife he really and truelly loves me I think he would respect my feelings baou this. BUt all I get from him is its what men do its in their blood. Well what am I chopped liver?

Maintain your faith. You must first work on your own needs that you must fulfill. It is much easier with to working on the issues of meeting each others emotional needs. It sounds like he does not know what yours our and how you want them met and he definitely doesn't know his own. I am in a similiar situation, but my wife knew what her needs were but could not teach me how they were to be met, and I was clueless till a year and a half of therapy and lots of books, especially Dr. Harleys. I now know what my needs are and what my wifes are and I am trying to meet them, but she is in withdrawl and in a very selfish state of mind. I am listening,more aware and thoughtful but she is not there. I need to be patient and hopeful that she will find herself again. You must keep doing what you are doing, don't give your opions unless asked, don't make judgements,don't criticise and he might see the light. Don't fight with him either, It takes two to fight. Good luck!!!!

Michael, Thanks for your thoughful response to my post. I am sorry that you are struggling with these same kind of issues. I think maybe you misunderstood me though....I am well aware of my needs and I communicate them very effectively....he can even mirror back what I say to him...it just doesn't go past his ears to his brain!!! The reason I don't have desire for him is that he meets my needs almost ONLY when he wants sex. So, I feel he KNOWS what I need, he is just meeting those needs when he NEEDS sex ....I don't feel very loved at all!! He says he loves me.....but love..to me...is an action...not mere words. God doesn't just say "I love you", He demonstrated that love VERY CLEARLY and unselfishly. I try to love my husband this way....I can do it in all areas (put him first) except sex. I feel like I am being used....not loved. I am able to meet his sexual needs, when he asks, even if I don't want too....but he is very passive and doesn't ask very often. He is hurt because I don't desire him. (He wants me to initiate when I am "ready"). We are stuck in a catch 22....we go around and around and around and never get anywhere!!! IT IS SO FRUSTRATING!!!
<p>Anyway...I'm rambling!! Thanks again Michael for your helpful advice. My faith is strong...I know God has a plan...perhaps this is my "thorn in the flesh"...(I hope not!!) I pray that your marriage will heal very soon!! PEACE TO YOU, JOY

Joy,
<p>i am amazed, there is so many familiar things in your post. I am living you life also! My husband doens't care if he ever gets together with friends or family. The only time he is aware of my needs (and this is only since we read Hid needs, her needs) is when it's been a while and he wants sex!! We are going through that right now. It's been about a month, and he is starting to be all hands again. He was put off this week end because his groping didn't go anywhere (cause I was more than irritated at his tactics!) He has ordered flowers for me afew time since we read the book, but I don't have the heart to say----TALK to me INSTEAD. Flowers are nice, but I NEED some personal communication, sit down and talk to me JUST CAUSE! Do you feel this way also Joy? Sorry that I am not any help, I am just amazed taht we seem to have such a similiar problem. Good luck to you.<p>[This message has been edited by GBM.]

GBM
<p>Actually your post was very helpful...it's good to know I'm not alone!! Hubby has been a bit more affectionate this week...in non-sexual ways...we went for first counseling session last Friday (my therapist--his idea) and he has been reading printouts from this site. We also did the "needs and busters" quizzes. Perhaps he realized that my "love bank" is bankrupt...I am tired of doing all the work in making a great marriage happen!! That or my prayers to God about whacking him upside the head are being answered in a big way!!!! Don't give up hope my friend!!!
<br>All things are possible....even thoughtful, sensitive, unselfish husbands!!
<br>I pray things turn around for you...I will keep you posted....
<p> PEACE TO YOU,
<br> JOY
<br>
<br>

Joy, I'm glad it was helpful. Good luck with the sessions. You know, we haven't done the love busters quiz. Maybe that would help. thank you for letting me interrupt on your post!
<br>Best wishes

GBM,
<p>There is another place where temporary files are stored that he might be able to get to. Your post/s would not be visible, but the location of the post would be. The easiest way to clear this memory is to: 1) go to the desktop and single click (select) the internet shortcut button 2) right click and select properties 3) select the "General" tabe and then under the temporary internet files press the "Delete Files" button. 4) On this same screen you can press the "Clear History" button. (At this screen you can set the number of days that are maintained in the history folder and change this to "0". By doing this the history folder will clear itself everytime you log off.)
<br>Hope this helps,
<br>Dave

wow-----H and I also talked aobut the Retrovaille weekend. He's hesitant, but by the middle of the eveing he was willing but not happy about it. Bruce, I am glad that you keep on goining on, it is SO hard isn't it. Best wishes again. Hope you guys get to go on the weekend.

I don't know what causes these double posts sometimes, and I sure wish this forum had an automatic spell checker after I go back and look at some of my posts.

GBM,
<p>It depends on how your e-mail is set up. Mine is set up to keep a copy of all sent and all deleted messages. Most programs are set to keep a copy of the sent e-mails so that you can go back and verify that you did send it. The easiest thing to do is to go out and look at the mail personal folders that you have. If you have a sent or deleted folder you would want to open them and see what messages you want to delete or clear out. All of this seems like a lot, but once you get the hang of it, it will be easy. Best of luck... Dave

Greg,
<p>I guess I can only ask what Ken has already asked....why are you the one to leave if she is the one that needs space. You see my husband will be leaving this evening....he is the one that needs space....he is the one that asked for it. I did not ask to be put in this position and I am not walking. I gave him his space with certain restrictions. He is not to enter the house without my first knowing he is coming over, and when and if he find himself in his space he may come back to either resolve his marriage or finially end our marriage. I know this sounds a bit harsh but being the offended spouse and having my life tuned upside down in a matter of 2 - 3 months I could no longer take it. But at no time did I throw him out. I was willing to work and rebuild but he wasn't.
<p>I feel for your position with your child. Separating a mother and child is hard but if she truly needs to be alone would she be willing to give it a try for a little while. As for an agreement...since you are not the one asking for space with out a doubt I would if you decide to go not only get an agreement as to when you will return but something stating that this was not your choice and is at the request of your wife. Now I know this all sounds like a bit much but reality smacked me in the face the other day when a conversation my husband had with my best friend was repeated to me.
<p>He mentioned to her that he was thinking of moving out for a little while to find himself but wanted to know whether at any point if the marriage was to ultimately be dissolved could he be held for abandonment. Quite a little shock to my system when here I was just trying to cope that he would think that far ahead. Now I am not saying your wife would do that but I do think you should protect yourself. You see what I see most on these boards is that the offended spouse is shocked and betrayed and caught up in emotions they never thought they would ever feel.....I know I am....I am also shocked by what I see in the man I love. He has done such a complete turn around that he is no longer the person I knew six months ago and have learned to steel myself to his selfishnes. I am lucky enough to have friends that I can talk to and make sure that I protect myself and daughter. I did not have the affair he did, and although I was willing to work on our marriage after that he was not.....partly because he had not ended his affair even tho he said he did. But he seems to forget that deal breaker number one in a marriage is an affair then comes the abandonment.....in closing i guess all I can say is follow your heart and if you decide to make the move truly give your wife her space but not your child.....make every moment count....children do not ask to be in this they are thrust into it. And above all protect your own interests. I wish you peace and hope all works out for you.
<p>Kathy

Greg,
<br>Your silent expectations hit home for me. My wife and I had some long talks this weekend. Many of her issues with me were her expectations of things I should have done. When I look back, I can see this. But, she felt that I SHOULD have known it. That it was not something she should need to tell me. There were (and still are) a lot of these expectations of me. I don't know how many of these things there are. Maybe she will eventually tell me them all. Maybe she still expects me to know them. Whatever, I know that we will both have to change our way of thinking about each other to make things better. We both know that.

To all
<br> Well I used to think if I got handsy kissy sex would be next. We are going to counsling and Iam learning to listen and communicate very important in a marriage.
<br> Guess what i found out you can lay in bed together naked and cuddle and kiss and talk without having sex its very wonderful.
<br> Women need to hear I love you and believe that "I" is a very important word. They need to hear wonderful job they are doing too.
<p> thanks for listening and God bless you all
<p> Jim

I really don't want my H to know about my posts on this site. I've cleared my history folder. Is there anyother way he will know?? Is there something still on my hard drive? What do I do about that? From the history folder can he just tell that I've visited this sight, or would he be able to read my post too?? Thanks from a computer dummy.
<br>

Hello Nat
<br>Have you and your husband spoke about seperating? Even maybe a trial seperation. I know I've mentioned it in the other thread that I am planning on leaving for a short period of time at the casual request of my wife.
<br>It's scarey, you and her have the exact same feelings toward your husbands. Although there was no mistreaatment in our marriage, my "taking it for granted" was enough to add fuel to the fire. Now she believes that she is taking me for granted and doesn't really appreciate what she has.
<br>She has told me that she hopes this trial seperation is enough to make her realize what she can lose.
<br>I hope so as well.
<p>Don't give up, Nat.
<br>Know that you have a man willing to CHANGE for the sake of having your love again.
<br>Men don't like to change.
<p>My wife asked me how I could be so patient and willing to change.
<br>I told her that I know what its like to have your love and I'm willing to do anything to get it back, even leave you and my daughter.
<br>I'm so scared to go.
<br>Greg

Greg,
<br>I considered a seperation when everything was fired up, when all of this came to a head a few weeks ago. My H had to work a few hrs out of town for a couple of days, so I asked him to stay there, when he came home, I went to my parents place while they were out of town. Those were the best nights sleep I've had in months. I am really scared of leaving; he has always been there. He was my high school sweathear and I've never been with anyone else, or on my own. Also I have a 7mos. old son. It tears me apart to seperate them, and I know the 2 nights I left our son with my H. it was really hard for me to be seperated from my baby. I don't know; I had a really positive outlook at first, but now I feel I'm just slipping back into the groove we were in before. I think about the future and it's hard not to imagine being with my H. but at the same time I cringe at the thought of being close to him, or being intimate with him. I sound like such a whiner don't I. I just don't see a solution right now. Maybe a seperation, then trying to start over with a clean slate may be an answer, but it's such a big step. The last thing I want to do is hurt H. more, especially since he has been SO patient with me lately. On the other hand, it's not fair for him to be treated this way by me either, so I guess something has to give.
<br>Thanks for the words of encouragement. It somehow helps to know there is someone else out there to help out when I feel pretty confused and lonely right now.
<br>Nat

KenS,
<br>You are right that my wife is in withdrawl mode. She will accept help and even do some things with me, but she told me she was just co-operating to maintain peace. It's not that her heart is in it.
<br>Two weeks in a mental hospital? God, but that is scary. And it's all the more scary because I feel like I may not be that far from it. I can see that trying to get her to do things isn't working. Like you said, it seems to make her want to run.
<br>But what about one of these weekend things like Marriage Encounter or Retrouvialle? I have checked into them. Today I talked to some people over the phone who tell me what it did for them. If my wife will go I'm sure going to take her.
<br>I understand what you're telling me, and I know its going to pull my guts out to do the right thing. But if I can get her to something that might shorten this process I don't see how I can pass it up. Right now she is getting no positive feedback from any source, and I feel that if she could get some , the right kind, it would help us.
<br>Yes, I pray all the time for God's grace to deal with this. All I can say is that I've never been so scared in my life, nor has my heart ever been this sad for so long.
<br>

I picked up a book yesterday called "How to Get Your Lover Back" by a psychiatrist named Blase Harris, M.D. The book is fascinating - I read the entire thing today. Since in the past, some of the ideas he presents have worked for me, I am very pleased with this purchase and intend to use the concepts and techniques in my own shattered marriage.
<p>While he doesn't use the same terminologies that are used here in the Marriage Builders website, many of his concepts are very similar and even the ones which are different really make a lot of sense. I think that there is nothing that conflicts with the Harleys' ideas, except a little in how you treat a lover/spouse who is seeing someone else.
<p>I would highly recommend this book to anyone who is having problems in a relationship that doesn't involve alcohol or drug addiction or physical abuse. It's quick reading, and interesting. The author has used the techniques he described to re-establish his own relationship that had broken up, and counsels his clients to use them as well.
<p>I'll let you know how the concepts work for me ...

Congratulations, Bruce ... I hope things continue to be positive for you and your wife. I have to say again that I appreciate hearing about everyone's little successes ... it makes it a little easier to deal with the pain and setbacks to know that there is always hope!
<p>terri

stribik--
<br>maybe if you read my reply to jeffb under my wife doesn't feel my hugs... I talked a bit about how I feel about physical contact with my husband.
<br>I don'dt know if it will help you--I hope so.