Thanks Miya,
<p> It helps to know I'm not alone. If one of the guys in this forum area have any suggestions that would help us, please let us know.
<p> Thanks

Thanks for the understanding words, Bruce. It helps a lot to know that there is someone out there (male) who "gets" this whole mess - who has been through similar feelings and come out healthier.
<p>As far as my spiritual values, I'm a Christian and I believe in prayer. I'm glad that God is a loving God and willing to help. I DO admit to being more than a little reluctant for it to take so long though!! Things aren't getting any better between us. We skirt the issue of divorce - don't really talk about it, but wonder what the reasons we're still married are. Know what I mean?
<p>I will take your advice and keep hoping and praying. We will have some time apart this weekend and maybe having a breather will help us both.
<p>Anyway, thanks for your reply, and your prayers!

Thank you freezer. That is encouraging. I feel that I understand my most important emotional needs, so I will look for a man who can fulfill those needs. But the Policy of Joint Agreement is a pretty radical concept for our culture. I suppose I need to observe how well a potential partner respects my feelings. That should clue me in to how receptive he would be to Harley's 4 rules of marriage.

Hello all,
<br>I'm not sure how far the posts go back, but I will try this again in the hopes that I can get some advice from some of you who seem to going through the same thing I am, sort of.
<br>After 23+ years of marriage, with three boys, my wife left me, saying those terrible words, I don't love you. Although I have never cheated on her, never beaten or abused her,there are other circumstances that led up to this.
<br>We were both substance abusers and my abuse landed me in prison.We have both been clean for 3 1/2 years and up until the time I came home everything seemed fine. We made plans for our family's future. I came home, got a great job, and it wasn't long at all before she announced that she was leaving. She took our youngest, and the two older stayed with me.
<br>I have managed to conquer my substance abuse problem through a program that made me take a look at my core issues,(the reasons why I felt I had to medicate myself), face my fears and make the right decisions that would lead me to become a productive citizen.
<br>My wife, on the other hand has been involved in n/a and this program has convinced her that she cannot stay married to someone she was co-dependant with. Her SPONSOR has convinced her by way of the BIG BOOK that she has to do whatever it takes to stay clean. Even at the cost of her marriage, her family, etc.,and she has become some kind of automaton that has lost her individuality. She would rather spend time with people that can't control their ADDICTIONS and feel as though in order to stay clean they must relive their pasts instead of acheiving permanent tranquilty, most of which she has known for very little time.Consequently, she has refused my requests to go to counseling in an effort to save our marriage and our family unit.
<br>She insists that she doesn't want a divorce, and that she isn't interested in anyone else. She comes to my home everyday and when she is depressed on upset she comes to me for support in the form of hugs or kisses, but it never goes any further. We have had no relations since I came home and I am at a loss as to where to go from here.
<br>At first I fought her tooth and nail, then I became angry, then despondent, the hopeless. Now I have managed to accept that this may never change and I may not ever get her back. My vows are very important to me and our family unit is paramount, however, I now realize that my children may now be faced with the very same issues that I had to deal with, broken home, divorced parents, etc., and it saddens me that she is willing to throw away what was a great marriage (we were also best of friends) because a few people have brainwashed her into believing that she is the only person that matters in this situation.
<br>I truly believe that if she were to agree to counseling we could begin to heal the hurt and repair our family.
<br>Well enough of that. Any advice from you who are going through the same thing would be greatly appreciated.
<br>Lost and lonely,
<p>John_98

Hello Heather,
<br>I believe that a lot of military bases/posts have family support which offers free counseling. I know it's hard to work on your marriage when your spouse is rarely ever home. I hope you both find common ground.

I have read a great deal, gone to individual counseling, looked everywhere to find the answers.
<br>I've now had 2 sessions w/ Dr. Harley and have found it to be very helpful. In fact, I will call again this week to set up another appt.
<br>Thought about it for a long time, but my thoughts were - I wanted to try anything which might help. I could always hang up if I was uncomfortable. The cost was reasonable, and well worth it if it gave me even the slightest help getting thru this pain. What's the worst that can happen.
<br>Good luck
<br>Sara

It wasn't Stephen Crane, it was Thomas Hardy:
<p>Neutral Tones
<p>WE stood by a pond that winter day,
<br>And the sun was white, as though chidden of God,
<br>And a few leaves lay on the starving sod,
<br>--They had fallen from an ash, and were gray.
<p>Your eyes on me were as eyes that rove
<br>Over tedious riddles solved years ago;
<br>And some words played between us to and fro--
<br> On which lost the more by our love.
<p>The smile on your mouth was the deadest thing
<br> Alive enough to have strength to die; And a grin of bitterness swept thereby
<br> Like an ominous bird a-wing....
<p>Since then, keen lessons that love deceives,
<br>And wrings with wrong, have shaped to me
<br>Your face, and the God-curst sun, and a tree,
<br> And a pond edged with grayish leaves.

My boundry would be if it made my sigificant other uncomfortable I wouldn't want to do it. Business contacts are understandable. My question is how long has she been friends with this older guy and what was the basis of their relationship before you two met? Has she given you any reason not to trust her? Do you both go out with these friends once in a while? If so, make sure when you do that you are affectionate towards her. Let them see how in love you both are. If not, maybe you should. I've learned in the not to distant past that sometimes "friendships" can really hurt your marriage. You should bring up your feeling to your fiance in a non-confrontational manner. Let her know you love her and share your thoughts with her. Don't accuse or be on the defensive. I hope this helps you.
<p>Juli

Cath,
<p>I know what you're saying about being reluctant for it to take so long. It's so difficult to bear the uncertainties while time crawls by. Unfortunately I see no way around it.
<br>On the positive side, from a Christian perspective, God is close to those who have broken hearts. This is a chance, however it turns out, to get our prioroties right with Him. Something we generally won't do until we come to an end of ourselves. As always easy to say, difficult to do.

Friends,
<p>How do I get in touch with Dr. Hardy?
<br>I have been trying to get my wife to go to counseling, but she refuses. I would like some advice as to how to convince her that it's worth a try.
<p>Thanks,
<p>John
<p>E-Mail me @ JCWELL@thegrid.net

Glenn,
<br> FWIW, sorry to hear you burnt your poems one drunken night. I almost did that several drunken nights, but stopped--why? Even my dear wife Lynn has no ear for my poetry. Thousands and thousands of lines, a few of great beauty, and nobody loves them
<br>now . . . .
<p>lines from Yeats' A Dialogue of Self and Soul (from memory, so might be a little wrong)
<p>I am content to follow to its source
<br>every event in action and in thought;
<br>measure the lot, forgive myself the lot.
<br>When such as I cast off remorse
<p>so great a sweetness fills the breast
<br>that we must laugh, and we must sing;
<br>we are blest by everything:
<br>everything we look upon is blest.
<p>

Babe,
<p>If you've really looked over this website in detail and like what you see, I'd suggest that you ask your husband to do the same. Another approach is to order either "Give and Take" or the "Four Gifts of Love" and read them together.
<p>Your problems aren't serious... yet. But there are a whole lot of people here who wish that they had worked on loving communication skills with their spouses years ago: me included. Conflict resolution is not hard, but you have to learn not to worry about 'right and wrong'; there are always two opinions in a marriage, and you need to come to an agreeable resolution on issues.
<p>Sounds really easy. But it takes time, patience, and practice.

I agree ... don't pursue the divorce, don't sign any papers. Even though my H seems to be certain that he can never love me again like he did before, his answer to the question, "Do you want to get a divorce?" was "I don't know." I took that as a reasonably good sign - he doesn't want to close the door on reconciliation completely.
<p>I know that I will not file for divorce. I am not even going to take his name off the checking account yet. I am leaving his car insurance with mine ... maybe I'm asking for trouble, but in my mind it is an indication of how much I trust him and how willing I am for him to come back to me.
<p>Don't take a final step unless you're certain. Leave every door open that you can until *you're* ready to shut them.
<p>terri

I feel as though a compromise should be reached. You feel as though hunting is wrong? You feel as though you don't want him taking your son hunting? Well, he feels the same way about a dog! I bet if the two of you sat down, and you told him that you have agreed that he can hunt and take your son; he would agreeably allow you to have a dog. He is probably only withholding the dog from you, because it gets under your skin. Just like you not liking his hunting gets under his skin.