I'm 36 and my wife just turned 39. we've been married for 5 years and have one child, 3 yrs old. One month before our daughter was born, my wife's mother passed away. My wife and her were very close - best friends. It was very difficult for my wife, obviously. It was hard for me also, I didn't know how to comfort her for fear that it would bring her more grief. I was always there for her but she chose to close herself off and give total concentration to our newborn. A year passed and I found a better job opportunity in another city just a couple of hundred miles away. I needed to start right away and left to start the job while my wife stayed to pack up the house. I would travel back on the weekends to help. This situation lasted for almost one month. During this time, unknown to me, my wife was building a great resentment towards me. She was alone with the baby and packing up the house which had many of her mother's things. She was going through a private hell. I was trying to start a new job without my family present which was hell for me. I would call every night and see how she was doing but never really realizing what she was going through. I was too wrapped-up in wy own "new job" problems. 10 months passed and she finally came to me with her feelings, that during that month apart she resented me enough to leave me for good , but chose to stay and see if her feelings would change. We both decided that night that we needed to see a counselor. Through months of counseling we dicovered the reasons for her resentment and have resolved those issues. Our communication is the best it has ever been, but she still has thoughts of wanting to be on her own. We still live together but she tells me that she doesn't feel the passion for me she thinks she needs to feel, and feels smothered by my love at times. She says she truely wants to get those feelings back for me. But right now she says she's on a journey to find herself and feels sometimes that it might be best if she was without me around to do it. I don't want to leave my wife and my daughter. They are everything to me. I am still madly in love with her and it is so difficult to be in the same house with someone whom you know doesn't feel the same way for you. It has been this way now for one year. Lately we've been talking more about separating. She says that she feels it is a way back to me. The old "you don't know what you got till it's gone" song. I'm beginning to feel the same way. But I'm scared to leave. Alot of it has to do with my daughter. The thought of not being there with her everyday kills me. Please someone tell me some happy endings to similar situations or help me to see that leaving is the right or wrong thing to do.

I have been reading these threads and find it interesting that the men posting here have exactly the opposite experience in their relationships as I have in mine. By that I mean their wives don't communicate! My husband is the one who says he's been unhappy for more than two years and has never communicated to me how he felt. I have expressed my frustrations (okay, nagging, angry outbursts, etc. not good but better than no communication at all) but he has never indicated that he has been so unhappy he might consider leaving ... until now.
<p>And now, as your wives have done to you, he says it is too late to fix things.
<p>Believe me - I understand and empathize with your pain. I am feeling it all myself.
<p>I also echo Sara's question: I wonder how many men come to their senses after leaving their wives and return to them ...?
<p>terri

terri, sara
<br>I am also having the opposite experience compared with the men on this forum. My husband has been becoming more unhappy over the last few years, and the first he told me about it was when he said he no longer loved me. At least he has not had an affair.
<br>I have now moved out of our home, and things do seem to be getting better. He tells me to think of it as a new start for both of us. I moved out 3 days ago, and I have spent time with him every day since then.
<br>He has even been more affectionate (he kissed me on the cheek without being asked). It's not much, but it's a start.
<br>3 times over the weekend, I said 'I love you', and he said it back. He said it was just a habit, learned behaviour, and that nothing had changed and we laughed it off as a joke. However, it does give me hope. I hope I'm not wrong.

l forgot to add that l did give him a card on sun night expressing my sorrow for saying mean things to him,etc but l didn't get a word about it.......

Ryan,
<p>Is this a sign or are you fooling yourself? Boy do I know this dilema. You want things to come to a resolution so bad that you find yourself grasping for any little thing that can be interpreted as a good sign. Yet you've experienced enough disappointments from hanging hopes on those incidents you're afraid to do it again. You want to guard against false hope but you don't want to close the door either.
<br>It's rough, man. It's a mental and emotional mine field. But you're going to have to make the call. If it were me I think I'd explain that I would do anything to get her to stay as long as she felt like she would like to work it out. But if she is dead set on going through with the divorce I would tell her that I simply could not continue this way.
<br>But, like I say, the call is yours. You're the one that's close to it. I know that a man can want to keep his wife so badly that he is willing to go far more than the extra mile, even if he thinks he's being played for a fool. He's willing to do things he never thought he'd do. He knows he might end up standing there with egg on his face but he's willing to take the chance.
<br>You may be willing to take that chance, and while all this is going on you still won't be sure if you're fooling yourself or not. I wish there were a more clear cut and painless answer, but if there is I haven't found it. I wish you the best.

wow,l was thinking the SAME thing the ladies here were. l am also on the opposite side of the coin with them. My H seems so much like bruce,etc here,with the exception that they have tried to change. ln a way,l can truly relate to what the wives felt like before they strayed(not condoning what they did though) ln my case,after so many yrs of feeling like l was trying so hard and he wasn't, l just kind of gave up too,and lived with it,thinking it is just his personality and l can't change him. l never feared he'd have an affair though,because he just didn't seem the *type.(l'll bet we all say that)
<br> Anyway, since this all came out he hasn't changed or even tried. He cries whenever we do discuss things and says he has hurt me so bad over and over and has been so mean to me for years and years and doesn't know why, but just can't stop.He thinks it means he doesn't love me enough. He feels he mentally abuses me,even though l assured him up until this affair things were not that bad,but yet he doesn't make any effort to TRY to be more aware like bruce,etc has done. He says over and over it is all him and not me,but says he just can't help it.
<br> . As a matter of fact,he hasn't spoken to me in 3 days because for the first time on sat l finally blew up and said some mean things about his affair. Sure the things l said were true and maybe justified,but still l felt horrible after. l think l just held it in for so long, and sooner or later l was going to blow. lt was our anniversary and considering he didn't even acknowledge it,l think had a big part in my blow-up,but like l said it was the FIRST l ever had about this and he started it by complaining about a $100 phone bill l had, which l countered that it was only due to the affiar that l had to talk to my best friend everyday to keep me from going nuts.It went from there.He has been back from Korea for 3 months now.(his affair was with a coworker over there) and he is constantly trying to pick fights which up until then l totally avoided. l had been trying sooo hard to show him l forgive him and want to move on in our marriage. We don't talk too well,but l have poured my heart and soul out to him in really long letters,which we even went over together and each time he cried throughout. He said of course it is the best for the kids if we stay together,but he doesnt think it is for me. He didn't say what is best for him.
<br> Anyway, l am just getting so tired of feeling like l am the one who had the affair and is trying so hard to make amends here. No matter how much l want this marriage,l need things from him too. l would give my eye teeth to have him feel like the rest of the men on this thread. l am just wondering if it took your wives to have the affair to wake you all up,and maybe that is why you feel the way you do now. l must say in my opinion you really are in the minority when it comes to the way men are in marriage and commitment. Statistics even show that it is usually the man who runs and abandons the family,not the wives,like has happened to you guys.
<br> l have given my life up to follow him around the world(he is in the AF) l just left my family back in Orlando where l was for the yr he was in Korea. l truly love that place and never wanted to leave it.My famly is devestated that l took my kids away from them because they got so close.lf they had any idea what was going on here they would flip out. l do sometimes wonder why l am here and not back there. l don't voice this to him,but after 3 months of this l am wearing thin here. l just don't know how much more l can take without losing myself completely.

Ken,
<br>I think most of us here are hoping never to reach your predicament. I feel for you because I wonder if one day I will be there, too. I won't give advice on what to do. But, everyone has the right to be happy. You, your wife, your family. You still have to ask yourself if you feel: a)you are better of with her, than without her; b) there is any hope of reconciliation.
<br>Remember also, that just because you are divorced, does not mean reconciliation has to stop. Divorce is a legal document, that's all.
<br>No matter what you decide, we're hoping you'll come out happy. Good luck.

John,
<br> Why dont you go to meetings with her and be supportive. Also why dont you read the chapter called the family after. What you dont understand is that just putting down a drink or drug dosent change the person you are. I attend AA and thru the 12 steps of recovery I have gotten a relationship with the group, my children, my God and number one myself. Its a program of changing from the inside out. Its about taking others feelings into consideration and being the best person you can be on a given day. Stop worring about what you want and back her up and stand by her as she did for you. In time your wife will be back if you support her and what she's doing for her self, I'm sure of it. The best way to know about anything is doing it yourself and finding out what its all about. You may even find that you learn somthing about yourself and you can stop blaming others and look at what actions you can take to make her feel good about you. Show her how much she means to you by supporting her not fighting her. Good Luck
<br>Ken

Dave, my suggestion would be to read everything on this website. There is information here that relates to your situation, interesting stuff about trust and marriage and infidelity... Lots of good information.
<p>terri

Thanks to all who have responded to my other posts. You've all been very helpful. Now my problem...
<br>Today was a very depressing day. I thought a lot about my marriage and my situation. What kept popping back into my head was that I should have never left! If I hadn't left I wouldn't be in the situation I'm in now. I would be with my husband and not here in this apartment. I want so badly to be with him. I feel horrible.

I've been married for two years - 2nd marriage for me - 3rd for him. We have five teenage children between us. I was previously married to a sex addict - porno, prostitution, affairs, etc. - took me 19 years to decide I couldn't take it anymore and I divorced him. I thought marriage was forever.
<p>This time around I thought things would be different. And they are. But I'm feeling just as crazy. First of all I feel like it was a HUGE mistake for me to have married him - and I'm feeling guilty for even feeling that way. I STILL believe marriage is forever - but I'm beginning to believe I should never have gotten married again.
<p>We've done a ton of reading, been to counseling (for well over a year now - three different counselors because "no one understands" him) - and we're stuck doing the same "dance" over and over and over again. Sexual fulfillment is his one and only need, according to him. I always believed that I was a very sexual person. I've enjoyed it immensely - been very affectionate - believe myself to be relatively "normal" if there is such a thing. The problem is (one of them) that my husband's entire focus is sex. If I say no or even give him a less than enthusiastic yes, then he flips out. And I'm not talking OCCASIONALLY - I mean if he doesn't get some sort of sexual release EVERY DAY, he becomes verbally and emotionally abusive. He tells me that I don't love him, that I've changed, that I'm frigid (gotta just LOVE that word!) etc etc etc. Because in his words, if I loved him, I would be sexual whenever he wanted.
<p>I tell him that I DO love him - but he doesn't believe me. I tell him that this behavior is pushing me AWAY, not making me want to be close to him. I feel like a machine - that all he wants is sex. If he gets it, he's all sweetness and light until the next day. Then if he doesn't get it, we're back to the pits.
<p>I'm so tired of being treated like this. It makes me feel used and worthless. I hate it.
<p>Can anybody offer me some help? I would REALLY appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

To All,
<br>I started a new thread (topic #4) since we have been growing steadily. I hope everyone is doing fine. My weekend was pretty bad. Open conversation with my wife has hurt tremendously. She has finally opened up that she has not felt love for me for several years. She said that she resents my acceptence of responsibility outside our home. When friends ask for help, I am usually the first one there. She feels that I should have been taking care of her instead of being outside. She said she wanted me to fight MORE with her about important issues (I admit I avoided most conflicts). But, in all arguments we had, she would never give in. So, I think she is reaching for excuses why she is not in love with me. She does not like to say I LOVE YOU, or be intimate, because she does not want to give me false hope.
<br>She said she probably would have left years ago if she did not feel she was letting her mother down.
<br>I told her that we have to tell the kids that we are having problems. She is against this, but I insisted on it. She feels that she knows where we are headed (divorce) and wants to avoid the problems with the kids.
<br>She thinks I will eventually tell the kids about her affair and try to turn them against her. I can't get through to her that doing that would serve no one, especially the kids.
<br>Yesterday, she lost her temper with my daughter (13). Really scared the s--t out of my daughter. I had to send her(daughter) to her room, and let my wife know what she was doing. I felt she was venting at the kid for feelings she felt for me.
<br>The rest of the day she was quiet and moody. Last night, she asked if she could go away for a few days. She said she needed a break. I will arrange with work to work from home, so she can take off. I don't know where. When it comes time, I will ask her. I will also let her know that I would rather her not leave.
<br>I think, if not for what she thinks her family and friends might say, she would want to leave me and the kids. She said she never wanted to be a Stay-At-Home mom, but was afraid of telling anyone for what they might say about her. She could not even tell me.
<br>How is it that even through all of this, I still love her? How, after being hurt so much, do I still want her as my wife? I have to admit, that some of it is because we have a family to think about. But, mostly it is because I want her back. I hope I do not give up this feeling.
<br>

Brenda,
<p> I know that you are seeing the "positives" of trying to put your old back together - ironically, this might work out.
<p>However, I think you owe it to your present husband to do your absolute best to make THIS marriage work. You're willing to work to put the old marriage back together, so be willing to work (even harder!) to make THIS one work.
<p>Have you approached your current husband and openly shared your feelings about the state of your current marriage? Have you gone to professional counseling, or read Dr. Harley's book together? Do you have reason to believe that your "old" marriage would be easier to fix than your "new" marriage? What if you went back and remarried and 6 months later, the marriage fell apart again?
<p>(Didn't mean to give you more questions than answers, but you may need to serriously ask yourself these things.)
<p>Finally, you mention the kids. Wouldn't it be almost as good if you and your ex-husband (and families) could just be friends?
<p>I know it may look attractive to put your old marriage back together, but you have a commitment to your current husband, and he has one to you. Don't give up on this one 'til you can honestly say you've both done your best!
<p>Val

Thanks guys! Bruce, you actually made me laugh (cheered me up so to speak). Thank you. Val, yes, I have discussed this with my husband. I have asked him what I can do for him. I am very open with him. He swears to me that he is happy with us and our sex life. I am an extremely sensitive person and took his habit to heart. It hurt me. I just really did not understand, because like I said, I have and would do anything for him. I have a question for you Val, why did you feel you were missing out whenever you saw "half-attractive" women? Don't you find your wife attractive? I realize actually from research I have done recently in college that men actually are stimulated visually. I am beginning to wonder if it is natural for anyone to expect a man to supress his natural instincts to "wander."
<br>What do you guys think?
<br>KS

KS,
<p> I agree that Bruce is correct when he calls pornography the "mental cocaine of the male [of the] species". However, I know there's more to it than that.
<p>When a "man" is young, he may look to pornography out of curiousity. To "learn" what all the older boys are talking about. A very poor way to "learn" about sex, granted, but one that (he thinks) answers that questions that parents or school won't address.
<p>As a young man, I was fairly naive. I was virgin until I met my only wife at 23 years old. (We were both each other's first sexual experience.) At that point and for years after, I never sought out pornography. (seeing some here and there is unavoidable - look at the side of a city bus!) Initially I was happy with our sex life.
<p>As the years went by (10 or 15) I started feeling more and more unsatisfied with our sex life. My pleas fell on deaf ears. My wife said I was "oversexed" and it was "my problem". Every time I would see a halfway good-looking woman, it would remind me of how unhappy I was. At that point I did seek out pornography. I think that I had the feeling that it would satisfy my needs. Obviously, it didn't.
<p>As Bruce also says, you shouldn't blame yourself, but have you had an honest talk with your H to see if HE is satisfied with your sex life? (Not just that question, of course, but a real, honest conversation.) Are you meeting his need for sex as YOU percieve it? (or as he percieves it?) It's a two-way street though. He should be the one meeting all of your emotional needs.
<p>Maybe your husband needs therapy to "kick the porn habit" (Bruce, opinion?) I don't know about that.
<p>I do know that just honest communication can make a big difference. I hope you check out the rest of this web site and find something you both can use to heal the hurt you have experienced - and possibly hurt that your husband has not admitted to you.
<p>Val<p>[This message has been edited by V.]

Val,
<p>Glad you kicked in your view there. I know I was being a tad one sided and I'm glad you brought out the rest. I just didn't want her to feel guilty about something she probably didn't have to.
<br>Do I think her husband needs therapy? Don't know. It seems like everybody needs therapy these days for things people used to know they should simply stop doing. And they would stop doing it if there was something they wanted worse than the bad habit they're grasping now. That's how I quit smoking when I was 18. Porno is the domain of a self-centered individual. If he broadend his concerns to be of real service to others, especially his wife, it would move porno out of the picture. There wouldn't be room for it. As it is people have lost sight of the simplicity of that, therefore they see therapy as the only option. And I'm sure all those mental health practitioners and counselors appreciate it all the way to the bank. Just my opinion.

Jim, there's a really good book out there called "Winning Your Wife Back"...My husband got it at a Gary Smalley conference, but I'd guess it could be found in or ordered from a Chrisitian book store. It is very easy to read and written in sports terminology to be male-friendly. From a woman's point of view, the advice is very good advice. I wish my husband would use it! It sounds as if you have your foot in the door. I think your wife is confused. Maybe too many people are trying to tell her what to do. I suggest that you take it easy for a while and just let things flow (if you're a Christian, the phrase I like is "let go and let God..."). Be friends. Don't be pushy. Let her talk. Listen. Give her what she needs. Romance her in a non-sexual way...small bouquets, a locket, Godiva chocolates (just a few you picked out yourself), afternoon phone calls that last just long enough for you to tell her you care, a foot massage (if she'll allow it), a book, tickets to a show she's wanted to see for years, TIME, or SPACE. Whatever her needs are, meet them. It'll be hard, but if you are gentle (and read that book!), I'll bet you can do it. You sound like you miss her. Take care of yourself, too, okay? Go to a gym, visit with friends, build a satisfying life for yourself. You'll be more relaxed, less likely to put pressure on her, and probably more appealing. Good luck with the counseling (don't bet into arguments or place blame and you'll be better off!). I hope it works.

This is not marriage related at all, but you all have offered such comfort and wonderful words of advice to me in my marital crisis (H leaving, having an affair) that I wanted to share this newest sorrow with you ... I hope no one minds...
<p>Today I found out that my very close friend and confidant, a woman I had worked with for five years, whose Methodist minister husband had been transferred to Long Island NY from our small upstate NY community, was killed in a car accident. She was the most giving, caring and wonderful person I have ever known and is one of the few people who understood why I have to deal with my marital situation in the manner in which I am...
<p>My heart is broken into little tiny pieces ... and I feel such pain for her husband and two sons (one of whom was in the car with her, but is not seriously injured). I am feeling like the weight of the world is on my shoulders tonight, even though I know the pain of her family is far more than mine ...
<p>Why do bad things happen to good people???
<p>terri

Val,
<p>Glad you kicked in your view there. I know I was being a tad one sided and I'm glad you brought out the rest. I just didn't want her to feel guilty about something she probably didn't have to.
<br>Do I think her husband needs therapy? Don't know. It seems like everybody needs therapy these days for things people used to know they should simply stop doing. And they would stop doing it if there was something they wanted worse than the bad habit they're grasping now. That's how I quit smoking when I was 18. Porno is the domain of a self-centered individual. If he broadend his concerns to be of real service to others, especially his wife, it would move porno out of the picture. There wouldn't be room for it. As it is people have lost sight of the simplicity of that, therefore they see therapy as the only option. And I'm sure all those mental health practioners and counselors appreciate it all the way to the bank. Just my opinion.

Val, I was glad to see your viewpoint!
<p>I suppose that Bruce is partly right: pornography CAN be like sexual cocaine to a man who already has a regular sex life. (Can't personally vouch for that one, tho'.) But to a man who is starving, 'soft' porn is more like sexual Cheetos -- no nutritional value, but it helps take away the hunger pangs briefly.
<p>This bothers me, 'cause I've always felt that even 'soft' porn was fundamentally wrong, partly because it paints such an unreal picture of women. But sometimes, 'unreal' is all you can hope for.
<p>Doug <p>[This message has been edited by Doug.]