Greg and Ken (krc and Bruce too),
<br>Like krc, I have been posting on the Infidelity board for over 2 months. I posted a new topic explaining my prediciment (Help - Please) on this board.
<br>My wife is experiencing the same things. 16 years of marriage and she now feels her life has been worthless. She is 37 and I am 41. Two kids.
<br>Self Control - It is now a life style. My wife and I are in separate therapy. My wife still can not talk openly to me. She fears that she will hurt me too much. She says she loves me, but does not know if she is IN LOVE WITH ME.
<br>Ken, I also have given dozens of back massages. She also likes the foot massages. Maybe they are less sexual.
<br>We are both in separate therapy. She likes her therapist, but hates the sessions. She says she has learned so much about herself that is painful, that she did not want to go back. But, she will still go.
<br>Today, I was going to call it quits. It became too painful. My in-laws are staying with us for the week. I was up all night from the stress. But, reading your posts, and speaking to a close friend, has renewed my strength. I love my wife and am trying not to abandon her in her time of need.
<br>She is looking for a teaching job, and I only help when asked. She said it is something she has to do on her own.
<br>Above all, we have to take care of ourselves. I have lost over 20 lbs. (only started at 172). Eat! Get out. You will be of no use to anyone (much less your wife) if you dwindle away.
<br>This is the worst rollercoaster in history. I am glad I found this thread. Venting to people who understand is refreshing.
<br>Thanks, and hang in there!
<br>

Hello everyone,
<br>It is nice to see that we are all getting some sort of relief from this thread.
<br>One thing that is hard for me, and I'm sure with some of you, is that we just don't know what the future has in store for us. Not that anyone knows what lies ahead in your life to begin with, but there is a loss of confidence in the relationship. There is no more "Happily Married". It's as though your spouse has the ball in their court and they don't know what to do next. Many times I feel as though this could be the day she makes up her mind that she has waited long enough. Some days this thought weighs so heavy on my mind that it makes it hard to function. I know that many of you probably feel this way every day, as did I.
<br>The constant fight seems to be within myself. My wife doesn't make it difficult to live together. We are very loving to each other, in a non-passionate, non-sexual way. I'm still hoping the passion will return, so does she (she says), but will it ever return? When will her patience to wait end? If I knew it would definetly return, I would wait - forever.
<br>Self control, patience and unconditional love for my wife are most important for me to survive. You are all helping me a great deal - Thank you!
<p>Kenw,
<br>I'm glad that your session went well. It is bit of a relief to know that so many couples have the same problem. Makes you have faith in recovering. Our couselor told us that we also would not be the same after this, but probably much stronger and tighter than before. I pray for it!
<br>Backrubs are great aren't they.
<br>Take care
<br>Greg
<p>Bev,
<p>I can relate to your decision to move out. I have made the same decision. She says she feels it can help her find who she is and at the same time find her way back to me. I'm out of options. I've done the staying and waiting option, but still no change in the intimacy. I'm scared. How about you?
<br>I personally think that it's not a bad idea to talk out your problems with your husband. This way you may discover ways to solve them. Don't cover them over by just talking about something else. My opinion.
<br>I hope everything works out.
<br>Please keep writing.
<br>Greg
<p>Bill,
<br>Only in the last several months can I relate to what you say about taking care of yourself. I think because I've been in this for a while now that I've started to gain alot more self-esteem and self worth.
<br>Don't quit - no matter how painful. Know that you are not alone. And it will be worth it in the end.
<br>You said that you were in the infidelity forum for 2 months. Was there an affair in your relationship?
<br>Good luck
<br>Greg

Thanks for the input, but I nee help with my questions. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!
<br> Ken

Bruce,
<p>The phone counseling has been successful in that it helped me get through a very difficult time and stay focused on the marriage. Steve was also very good on helping me learn the techniques here and apply them to my marriage, albeit in a very one-sided situation. And in my case, I believe that these principles really helped me 'save' my marriage.
<p>My wife is not currently participating in any counseling. She did work with Steve initally, but didn't like it (remember that she was actively involved in an affair and didn't want to quit). It's my belief that we still have plenty of work to do in our marriage, but I will not push my wife into any counseling due to her emotional and physical state (with being pregnant by OM, and having the affair being over for 'only' 4 months). I bring it up only occasionally, and she is willing to consider counseling. And she may even consider Marriage Builders again, although she doesn't have fond memories of what she went through before.
<p>I got her to participate by having her fill out the LBI (love bank inventory) for Steve. She then spent some time on the phone with him. I remember the first session she had with him: afterwards she went to bed (late afternoon) and slept for about 14 hours. She did participate in that she would give Steve 'feedback' on how I was doing, and we had some joint sessions to go over the rules for covering lovebusters and emotional needs.
<p>It sounds to me as if you are going to have to 'go it alone' for a while. Start, and show your wife that you are serious. Then perhaps she'll get involved. But I'd make that appointment and get Steve's advice: he's the professional, and I'm only giving you my 'colored' version of how it worked for me.
<p>Good luck.

Miya,
<p>There is nothing wrong with you for not liking this. I don't care what anybody says your husband is WRONG, and his remarks about all men doing this is a line of bull and all he's doing is justifying himself.
<br>To give other women compliments in front of you as very disrespectful, and frankly I think a guy like that needs his butt kicked, to phrase it as mildly as I can.
<br>I don't know what all is going on in your marriage and I'm not saying whatever problems you may be having are all his fault. Since two people are involved there is usually something both are contributing in some degree or another. But what your husband ssys to justify his porn habit is simply not true and I would not, if I were you, leave him any refuge to think I bought that crap.

I hope I never get to the point where separation is an option. I don't think I would ever leave. My wife would have to make that choice and leave us.
<p>I continue to struggle with my emotions. My wife had said she battle her emotions yesterday. However, she didn't want to explain her feelings. I can only assume - the "I don't want to be here feelings" got the best of her.
<br>I keep get mixed messages from her. Sometimes she will talk about the future like a future vacation we have talked about. However, later she will make comments like "if something ever happened to us, I could keep the dog" etc. In the past she used to joke about stuff like that, and I had no problem with it. However, now I am super sensitive to comments like that. I just want to feel comfortable in my relationship. Will that ever happen?
<p>Last night we got into a discussion about her therapy - She wants to discontinue it do to money reasons. I told her I think this is an important issue that needs attention - regardless of money. She said it hasn't worked so far (she has only been a couple of sessions). Tonight, she goes to another session - I pray she doesn't tell her therapist she is ending her sessions. My wife says this is a phase she is going through that she needs to resolve - and that she is capable of doing it. The chance that therapy will help allows me to make through everyday.
<p>I can't stand the feeling that our relationship could end at any moment. I live life by gaging my wifes moods and actions. I just can't seem to learn --I have to continue on with my life. Maybe if I started doing things for myself - It would give my wife space and she might feel I am not emotionally dependent on her (that I could survive without her).
<p>Thanks for everyones help!

Ken,
<br>It sounds the same in my house. We have a vacation planned for February (since last year), and are now planning a trip in April (to visit her parents) and a trip in May (to my nieces wedding). She talks as if these are going to happen. No issues. But, then she will comment that it's "only a penalty of $75 if we have cancel an airfare!" Ouch!.
<br>My wife also would love to discontinue the therapy. Don't believe the money issue. You and I know that we would give up everything to have our wives back and whole. Their therapy is a very painful process. My wife told me that she HATEs the sessions. They have opened up things that she cant believe about herself. After her sessions, she broods for days.
<br>Also, you have to do things for yourself. When this whole thing started, I stopped doing everything so that I could spend more time with my wife. I fell apart.
<br>Get together with friends, go out for drinks. Play sports. The activity also is a great stress reliever. I recently started playing tennis again, and started exercising in the morning. I am trying to get my friends together for a regular Friday night card game.
<br>I also no longer PUSH communication with her. I think that was a major stress in our current state. She can not talk openly to me yet. Last night, we hardly spoke a word to each other. She went to sleep early, and was asleep before I got to bed.
<br>At about 2:00AM, I woke up, turned to her, and kissed her, gently. She turned to me, did not open her eyes (she still could have been sleeping), and said she is coming home. This is the second time she said that to me. Perhaps inside, somewhere, they feel that they do belong with us. Its just buried under tons of turmoil and pain. Unfortunately, we have to wade through it all.
<br>Keep faith that you are doing the right thing. <p>[This message has been edited by Bill.]

Bill,that was nicely put. Glad to hear that you are beginning to put a structure back into your recreational time and that you are re-building your marriage.
<br>

Kenw,
<p>I also said that I would never leave. That I would ride this to the end. Keep that attitude. It helps give you confidence in knowing what you represent to your family. Believe in those moments were your wife talks about the future and future plans. This means she sees a future with you. I'm still wondering if leaving is the right or wrong thing to do. Before, I couldn't even think about it. Now, it occupies my thoughts every day. Thoughts of a desperate man I guess. It seems to be the only way to possibly get her back, to have her think I'm willing and able to live without her. But am I? I honestly don't know.
<br>About being comfortable.
<br>I don't know if "comfort", as you knew it before, will ever return. It may. Mine still has not. But I do feel more at ease with my wife now and our situation as compared to the first 3 months of this. You definetly will become more comfortable as time goes on and your problems are worked on and you learn more about what the other needs.
<br>
<br>I think that once you go to a marriage couselor together, you will see a different light. When I went by myself, it was great... for me, but I felt somewhat "detached" from the marriage problems. When your together, you are able to see the reactions of your spouse and you know what each other has to work on. This brought our relationship to another level. It helped us to talk about it in a more positive way also.
<p>Take care,
<br>Greg

KS,
<p>You are doing nothing wrong. Your husband is in the wrong. Once a man starts looking at porno it is just like a drug. He can be having a great sex life with you but porno stimulates him to go into sexual hyperdrive, so to speak.
<br>Years ago my father-in-law got a satellite dish. This was before they scrambled all the channels and made you pay subscription. We were there over the holiday and I was up late by myself. I started skipping through all these channels hoping to find a good movie.
<br>Well, in complete ignorance I stumbled onto the American tripple xxxtasy channel. Suffice it to say that everything I saw was as raw and uncensored as it could be. At first I just sat there with my jaw dropped open. I couldn't believe I was seeing it.
<br>Disbelief very soon gave way to arousal. Next thing I new I was waking my wife up for sex. Then I went back out and watched the stuff until 5 or 6 in the morning. Some weeks later my wife was telling me that her mother told her that her father was getting up in the middle of the night like some Stepford wife to watch this stuff.
<br>This is one reason why I've never allowed pay tv in my home. I don't want the temptation. As it is I've seen some of the sites on the Internet and I had to make an effort of will to avoid them afterwards.
<br>Porno is the mental cocaine of the male species. You should not belittle yourself in any way. No one can measure up to the false standards of exstasy put forth in that crap. Your husband needs to cut that stuff loose and be happy with what he has.

"Happy",
<p>When I posted my first response to your inquiry, I apologized in advance if I had made some assumptions. (Maybe you didn't read that part) A better response (from you) would have been a polite "No, let me clarify what I said" instead of jumping all over the case of those who YOU asked for advice.
<p>Even though people on this forum are way too polite to say it, I'll bet many are getting a clue as to why your boyfriend is hesitant to marry you. I know after that hostile response you gave, I certainly have me a few ideas why!
<p>You will find out that in marriage (just like in real life), a hostile response like the one you gave will not earn points in anybody's love bank.
<p>Val
<p>PS. I really thought hard about just ignoring your outburst, but that would be less than honest on my part!<p>[This message has been edited by V.]

The decision to leave was the hardest one I've ever had to make. When I did decide to go, I felt relieved, as if a great weight had been lifted off my shoulders. I really do think it is the best thing for us.
<br>We went to our second counselling session yesterday, and we both came out feeling really positive. We discussed what we hoped to achieve by separating. We mentioned that we were concerned that we would either avoid talking about our problems when we meet, or we would talk about nothing else. We agreed that if we wanted to talk about our problems, we would agree an appointment, so that it would not intrude on the times we were trying to have fun. We also agreed that we would practise negotiating about what we would do on our meetings.
<br>When we came out of the session, I said that after 6 months (when my lease runs out), we might be at a stage when we are able to work on our relationship both living in the same house, and my husband agreed. Compared to a month ago, this is progress.
<br>I'll keep posting to let you know how we get on, and I hope you all do the same. I never thought it would help so much to talk to strangers on the other side of the world, but it does.
<br>Regards
<br>Bev

Happy,
<p>I just want to second what John said so well,
<br>and I hope you can see that neither Terri or Val were trying to insult you. It's just that when life has beaten you up, you just try to keep others from following your footsteps.
<br>
<br>I too, think you might need to back off a notch or two with your BF. If you force the issue, he might A) break things off totally just to get some breathing space, or B) marry you just to make you happy, but always resent how it happened. If that happens, you've already got a tiny cancer, eating away at your marriage from the get-go.
<p>Let him decide FOR HIMSELF what a lucky guy he is, and how much he wants and needs you by his side for life! That way, you'll know that it's also what HE wants. Then, you can just smile and think to yourself: "I KNEW he'd finally make the right choice--ME!!!"
<p>Doug
<br>

I've been married for two years - 2nd marriage for me - 3rd for him. We have five teenage children between us. I was previously married to a sex addict - porno, prostitution, affairs, etc. - took me 19 years to decide I couldn't take it anymore and I divorced him. I thought marriage was forever.
<p>This time around I thought things would be different. And they are. But I'm feeling just as crazy. First of all I feel like it was a HUGE mistake for me to have married him - and I'm feeling guilty for even feeling that way. I STILL believe marriage is forever - but I'm beginning to believe I should never have gotten married again.
<p>We've done a ton of reading, been to counseling (for well over a year now - three different counselors because "no one understands" him) - and we're stuck doing the same "dance" over and over and over again. Sexual fulfillment is his one and only need, according to him. I always believed that I was a very sexual person. I've enjoyed it immensely - been very affectionate - believe myself to be relatively "normal" if there is such a thing. The problem is (one of them) that my husband's entire focus is sex. If I say no or even give him a less than enthusiastic yes, then he flips out. And I'm not talking OCCASIONALLY - I mean if he doesn't get some sort of sexual release EVERY DAY, he becomes verbally and emotionally abusive. He tells me that I don't love him, that I've changed, that I'm frigid (gotta just LOVE that word!) etc etc etc. Because in his words, if I loved him, I would be sexual whenever he wanted.
<p>I tell him that I DO love him - but he doesn't believe me. I tell him that this behavior is pushing me AWAY, not making me want to be close to him. I feel like a machine - that all he wants is sex. If he gets it, he's all sweetness and light until the next day. Then if he doesn't get it, we're back to the pits.
<p>I'm so tired of being treated like this. It makes me feel used and worthless. I hate it.
<p>Can anybody offer me some help? I would REALLY appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

Thanks, Bill. I'm at work as I write today. Nomally I'm busy (I'm a computer technician) running to different places but today I'm at my home base because my co-worker who usually covers this site is not here. There's no action here so I have all this time to think. Not really what I want. But since my last post called my wife at home, knowing she only worked half a day today. I admit it. I'm whipped. I told her I just called to hear her voice, no other reason. I don't want to fuss, don't want to start anything. I just want to hear your voice and be close to you any way I can. She seemed ok with that. I told her that although I know she said she didn't want to go anywhere this weekend could she see herself spending some kind of personal time with me. I don't care where or how. I'm a desparate man and I'll take what I can get. She said she would try to do that. On the one hand I don't like this "groveling". On the other hand I am facing a stark and unyielding reality: To lose my wife, without at least putting up a good fight, will take me through a hell I do not want to go through. I am prepared to do anything to prevent that. Of course when I say anything I don't mean "anything" but I think you understand. There's an old song by the Temptations that says, "...ain't too proud to beg, and you know it darlin..." I don't think I'm actually begging, but I ain't too proud to tell my wife that I need her desparately and that I have no desire to finish the course without her. Hopefull I and others on this forum will be able to come back soon with a great post in which we tell of a restored relationship.

Thanks, Bill. I'm at work as I write today. Nomally I'm busy (I'm a computer technician) running to different places but today I'm at my home base because my co-worker who usually covers this site is not here. There's no action here so I have all this time to think. Not really what I want. But since my last post I called my wife at home, knowing she only worked half a day today. I admit it. I'm whipped. I told her I just called to hear her voice, no other reason. I don't want to fuss, don't want to start anything. I just want to hear your voice and be close to you any way I can. She seemed ok with that. I told her that although I know she said she didn't want to go anywhere this weekend could she see herself spending some kind of personal time with me. I don't care where or how. I'm a desparate man and I'll take what I can get. She said she would try to do that. On the one hand I don't like this "groveling". On the other hand I am facing a stark and unyielding reality: To lose my wife, without at least putting up a good fight, will take me through a hell I do not want to go through. I am prepared to do anything to prevent that. Of course when I say anything I don't mean "anything", but I think you understand. There's an old song by the Temptations that says, "...ain't too proud to beg, and you know it darlin..." I don't think I'm actually begging, but I ain't too proud to tell my wife that I need her desparately and that I have no desire to finish the course without her. And if a certain amount of humiliation is part of that then I can handle it. I think. Hopefully I and others on this forum will be able to come back soon with a great post in which we tell of a restored relationship.

Bruce,
<p>The hardest thing in working through problems in a marriage is feeling like the wronged spouse and yet having to be the one to make things happen. Knowing that you need them to do for you and knowing that they can't do for you just yet. My suggestion would be for you to find something, anything in your life that you can do for yourself that when you do it you get such as adreniline rush that it takes forever to come down. I know you want your affection from her but right now you need to give it to yourself. I feel for you and your situation but I sense that you are strong enought to make it through this. Hang in there and know that those of us here care. Good Luck
<br>Steph

Bill,
<br>Believe me I'm very conscious of the nature of this roller coaster. I'm taking it all with caution. But when you're as down as I have been you'll take just about anything, even if you know it may dissolve tomorrow because feeling good for an hour is better than nothing.
<br>Plus I am finding that this roller coaster effect, while very rough at first, is making me get to a point to where I'm not being surprised as easily. So...I continue to tread carefully.

I too, was going to ignore your defensive post, but feel strongly inclined to defend myself. I was far from nasty - I was trying to tell you that if you push too hard, you may get what you want *now* but in the future you might lose.
<p>It is extremely painful to go through losing your spouse to another woman or just because he doesn't want to be with you anymore. I know - it is happening to me right now. You should be glad that people are willing to share their experiences with you when you *ask* for help. Otherwise, don't ask ...
<p>terri

Happy,
<p>You are very welcome. We here in the forums are all in the same boat, suffering from some sort of a relationship problem and I for one like the idea of helping someone avoid the pain that comes with a breakup.
<p>Stay strong, be patient, and you both will enjoy a long and happy union.
<p>In friendship,
<p>John
<p>
<br>(Email me anytime JCWELL@thegrid.net)