One of my biggest problems is that my H continues to ask the kids about EVERYTHING that goes on in my home. I do not have a secret life. My kids know where I go and who with (have not dated at all!!!!!!!) and the only time I tell them it is business is if it is lawyer stuff. This is when I do not tell them exactly where I am going, but now they can even guess this(LOL)<P>The point is that H (who does not communicate with me in any way...and I have nothing to say to him) asks them all the time,"what is your mother doing, who is she going out with etcetcetc."<BR>When they return from visitation I ask only if they had a good time and they rarely tell me anything as I do get mad at the stupidity regarding what H and OW do in terms of parenting etc. But it really is not my business and I do not pry.<P>I have asked, explained and begged my kids to understand that what goes on in my/our house is not a secret, but is not their father's business and he has no right to ask them.<P>Furthermore I did tell them that he had used information, twisted it into lies and had his lawyer accuse me of things which were lies, and which I could prove were nonsense. It is mainly aggravating, but how do I get H to understand that he has NO right to know anything about my life anymore.<p>[This message has been edited by willbok99 (edited April 05, 2000).]

Hi Willbok -<P>Geeeez, the games they play!!! And to use his kids!!! GRRRRR!!!!<P>I am sorry but besides tearing him a new a.......um, I mean calmly talking to him about the effects of this on the children and putting them in the middle, etc....I can't think of too much else until the children themselves get tired of him asking and tell him to stop.<P>Is this something that perhaps you can find info about how it's not good for the children and show him a book or a counselor report or something?<P>What about the lawyer....anything there to make him stop?<P>Good Luck with this...it must be very aggravating. <P>Hugs,<P>Sheba<P>

Sheba,<BR>Thanks for the reply.<BR>I do not talk to him as he will not communicate with me...have spoken 3x since July, and then only as he had to re kids issues.<BR>I cannot suggest anything to him as I was told for the months I tried to reconcile"you do not control me and I can do what I want." It is a pity that he cannot control himself or his peck*r!!!but that is what got our marriage into trouble in the first place(LOL)<P>He does not read (except financial journals and fashion magazines!) Gave him After the Affair, underlined and relevant sections blocked out, would not read it last April!<P>Told all the kids are fine!<P>Lawyer has written many times asking him to leave the kids out of this mess....he will not (and this aspect is frustrating, other stuff with older kids much worse re his justifying the financial stuff and the affair)<P>Kids are teens and have divided loyalties, but are finally getting the idea NOT to discuss certain theings with their dad, but he is so charmingly manipulative, that sometimes they cannot help themselves.<P>D's therapist(saw him 1x) did tell him to stop lying to d...this did not stop either ... H told my d that he was entitled to his happiness and noone was going to get in his way (or something very similar to that!)<P>Oh well.....wonder what would be if I set the kids up to feed him a bunch of fantasy (LOL) but I will not use my kids.<P>He asks them how they get on with me (they do not see their anger at me as misplaced etc) so he has a field day and puts me in a very difficult position....but c'est la vie and I just have to persevere.<P>Crunch time is coming. S 16 years wants to try to live with his dad and OW and has been difficult with me and does not like parental boundaries....H has no idea (we have been separated for 13 months) what it is like to parent a 16 year old. And I will make da#n sure S does not "live here" after school etc so I am not the one still doing all the parenting, but will turn the tables and have one night a week for dinner and every other weekend. Who knows how son will then view this. Basically I am tired of being the parent who does everything, but is the "bad " one. <BR>

Willbok,<P>My H does the same thing to my kids and it drives me up the wall. In my case, I think my H does it because he is trying to get "something" on me. He knows he has screwed up big time! Recently, he even told me he knew he would lose this divorce if it goes to court because I have too much evidence. Oh well, I guess he should have thought about that earlier! Of course, he still denies he has anything going with the ow. If he can get something on me he might be able to have a little something to stand on. Yeah right, there is nothing to get on me. I wasn't the one who caused all this mess. I've been a full-time college student supporting two kids with no help for 8 months and I'm doing something wrong? <P>I think a small part of our spouses still want to control what we do, etc. I know it bothers my H that I am not sitting around blubbering about him all the time. Well, at least not that he knows about <P>As far as doing anything about it, I don't know if that is possible. My H has even told my kids that I am crazy. That one really p****d me off! Even though it is maddening try not to let it get to you. Try to remember that one day your kids will remember how their Dad has acted and they will also remember how you acted. You will come out the winner in the long run. <P>Sorry for the vent but this is another one of those "hit a nerve" topics. Hang in there. It will get better.<P>Tulip

Tulip:<BR>This is so frustrating. You are correct about the control issue. H heard and saw me cry plenty (was totally unmoved), but I never told, asked or anything that he stay. He coninued to tell me he would stay because he <BR>1)knew this was best for me<BR>2)I needed him<BR>3)he felt sorry for me<P>All three of these I told him were no reason to stay. If he cared about/for me then we could work on the marriage.<BR>The reason he could not make up his mind was that he had it too good here in many ways. but I could never fulfill his needs as a irresponsible (in terms of the kids) 26 year old bimbo. This is what fulfilled him and I could and can never be that.<P>He is emotionally a cripple and could not understand why we could not remain "best friends!" while he went about his merry way with ow, taking my money, not supporting our 4 kids etc. <P>I am also "crazy" and he tells the kids this as he always has tried to undermine me so that he is "better"..he has no limits as long as everyone behaves in a way that HE wants and the kids do, or he wont see them (he is very charming and manipulative, so the kids do not get to see the way in which he gets people to supprt his view!) The kids did and do buy into it somewhat and that is why he had to find someone else (I am crazy...that I let his cr@p still get to me in terms of his pulling stuff with the kids)<P>Good luck

Oh Geez don't mean to jump in here but I noticed you both commented about your ex or stbx saying things like "You can't control me"! My ex said that all of the time during our divorce proceedings. During your marriage, who was the one more likely to wear the pants in your family? For us it was me entirely. In fact, I think my ex wore the dress! No not really, but it was a marriage with 3 children and no spouse. He could not make any decision no matter how small on his own. He still has that problem with his girlfriend and she's commented that she won't marry him until he learns how to make decisions for himself! So, I can imagine him feeling like he had some control once we were seperated. Just wondering what your marriages were like.

BonnieSept<BR>Thank you for your comments.<BR>In fact my H basically controlled many things, except where the kids were concerned as I do believe he never had a clue as to what was in their best interests and left it all up to me.<BR> <BR>Even though he might feel I controlled him, it was more like the other way around. We did what he liked....shopping and eating out with friends on a Sat night (which I had to arrange) I asked him to go to movies ("too early or late") to plays ("this is not NY") to play bridge ("I do not do that") to help with kids homework ("that is your job" so I did it all) etc etc. Our world really revolved around him...and shrank. He did play the "baby prince" and I fed into this which is where my responsibility for the marriage breakdown is,...he would nag until he got his own way!!!! but I filled just about his every need, so he got bored, but would not extend his horizons and I was only allowed to from 9-5!!!! (he was upset that I worked as a teacher 4 days a week and left home at 7:30 and for one year he had to get the kids off to school (all teens!! ) and this he resented and was bored etc so he took up with his secretary...guess what....did what he wanted wand I had "no control" over this....probably the only thing he really should have discussed as I believe he never thought about the implications or the betrayal...he just did what he wanted and I was supposed to say "fine dear"<P><BR>We both make desisions fast(other than the marriage breakdown!) and together, basically if it was not about the kids, he would nag a bit, and then as it was not that important to me (kids priority though so I did dsig my heels in re boundaries and other things which impinged on what he wanted to do...i.e.taking a kid to a friend or picking them up, or cancelling golf (which I took up 3 years ago so we could do something else together) as a kids plan fell through and the kid, not my activity took priority. I was not prepared to leave my then 10 year old d at home alone for 6 hours whil I went to play golf !!

Hi Willbok -<P>You know, I was thinking some more on this, and I guess the only solution is going to have to be time...don't you hate that word at this point? LOL!!<P>Your kids will or even might already know or have a feeling that your H is wrong and is using them.... This will all eventually come back to haunt your H.<P>As far as it seeming that you are the bad guy....I think that it is more their being afraid that H will pull further away from them - that scares them!!! <BR>Add to that their ages (which is rebellion and pushing boundaries time and that's what you are seeing.<P>Try not to personalize it if you can, they KNOW that you are the loving and stable one....that you will be there for them to count on no matter what. <P>Don't we always take for granted the ones who love us most and that we love and count on the most?<P>It'll be OK? H is confusing and scaring them with this immature nonsense and they may project their emotions onto you in whatever way they need to express them.....at least they are not bottling them entirely.<P>Wish there was more in the way of actions I could offer....don't think there is though.<P>BIG HUGS and Strength to you,<P>Sheba

Thanks for the reply Sheba,<P>Time does take care of a lot.(I am much further ahaead in this whole mess than a year ago and even though it was not the script I would have written, I am far better off than the emotional downward spiral I was in) I still do not understand many of the whys and whereforses specially with H's lifestyle now!<P>He does not have all he really wanted but is with OW and has none of the kids to be a parent for except every other weekend and one night a week and then he is uncle dad.<P>My d (13) is beginning to understand that her father needs to grow up as he now has to do his laundry, make the beds, shop for food and cook ... (out of the mouths of babies!)..she states she will know that he has finally grown up when he is no longer with ow. She was so very angry and displaced this at me, but in the last month has found some sense of peace and is a much happier and less angry kid and fun to be with except for "normal" 13 year old stuff.<P>My 16 year old is now forming a close bond with dad which was never there before, and I get the anger at the confusion of his feelings etc, plus all the teenage stuff. They are not allowed to be angry ever with their dad. He made that clear.<P>The older 2 are away til next month. One has sided with his dad at this point. He is also a superficial, rather narcissistic human being,(which is part of being 19 as well) but a good kid who will learn how to relate better to people than his dad ..other than just initially when both are charming..and it will start with his mother and 3 siblings who have found his behaviour to us awful over the past 6 months. He is beginning to understand that relationships are 2 way streets, even to family members. He was the last one to deal with this mess. Was detached for 6 months and stated that it did not affect him. Boy when it did, he has been totally out of whack.<P>The other twin has dealt with this from the beginning and is now doing really well. <P>With 4 teens, there are enough other issues than all this and I see each kid go through the same process at different times and KNOW that all have to get through each stage...and we are getting there.<P>And I guess when they have all got to a peaceful place in terms of this mess, I will view H's manipulation re intefering in my life through the kids as pathetic, as I now view the rest of his behaviour in terms of the infidelity and the financial entitlement.<P>How are you doing?<p>[This message has been edited by willbok99 (edited April 07, 2000).]