I'm sitting here bawling my eyes out. The one person I felt I could truly trust betrayed me today.<P>As some of you know, I had a brief affair with a co-worker about 2-1/2 years ago. I confessed to husband, he couldn't forgive me, and he divorced me in May of last year. Unfortunately, I'm kind of stuck here. I'm getting my PhD on full scholarship, and short of giving up my PhD, isn't anywhere else for me to go. <P>I came very, very close to leaving. Partly because I could not stand seeing the OM around after what I/we did to my marriage. <P>This friend of mine, I had poured out my heart to. I told her everything, and she had been one of the only people I trusted here. She sent out a joke to a bunch of people today via e-mail, and I saw the OM's name on the distribution list. This is after I caught them chatting a couple of times when I walked into her office a few weeks ago. I feel like the biggest fool. I wonder now if she hasn't been friendly with him all along. I just want to throw up.

Student:<P>Why would you feel betrayed by this friend? Because she may have a friendship with your OM?? Are you worried that they could have been involved while you were involved with him?<P>I'd just calmly discuss this with your friend. If the situation is more than you can handle, then you have lost a friend. But I'm sure that you can make new friends---so I wouldn't beat yourself up about this.

Student,<P>I think I understand ...... Regardless of how immature this may be. We want our heart-friends to feel the hurt with us and as much as we do. How can she even consider this man a friend or someone to joke with when he has hurt you so badly?<P>There are people I stay away from because I know they have hurt someone I care about. I'd choose my friend over joking or even being cordial with some people.<P>You did not lose a friend, SHE has lost a friend and your trust. <P>This stuff hurts and sucks. (((Student)))

Hi K,<P>I talked with her about it, and she got pissed. I've never told her what to do, but only have told her that I want absolutely nothing to do with him whatsoever. <P>The reason why I feel betrayed is because we have had a discussion about this before. Call me paranoid, but I feel like he is trying to make inroads to me through her. Not to get back together with me (slimeball is engaged), but to try and hurt me. A couple of times when I've been in the office talking to her, he's butted in on our conversation, trying to be "friendly". Of course, I just ignored him and pretended he wasn't talking. At the very least, he's trying to prove to me he's not such a terrible person and taking the sneaky route to "forgiveness". Has he ever apologized? Has he once ever said to me, either directly or indirectly that he is even sorry that my marriage is over? Hell no. I've made it clear to my friend that I refuse to let him go through her to get to me. It didn't bother me so much when I thought it was one-sided on his part. Now I see that she has made friendly gestures to him as well. It seems like she is practically holding the door open to him, IMO. <P>I don't think they have ever been involved. She just seems like the kind of person who will do whatever is politically favorable to her in spite of friendship. It makes me feel used, I guess. That maybe her friendship wasn't all that deep. <P>On the other hand, she has never been married. She's my age (35) and the longest relationship she has ever had lasted three years. It appears that she has no understanding how deeply I have been hurt, and probably thinks that e-mailing him should be no big deal. Her anger at my reaction shows me that she doesn't understand. She said "if you need to be alone because of a stupid e-mail distribution list, then so be it". She doesn't understand that it is not just a stupid e-mail distribution. <P>InShock,<P>Yes, I have the feeling you describe. I had hoped she would find her own reasons to avoid him. If she likes him in spite of everything I've told her, then I have to wonder about her judgement. I've started making friends with my neighbors (who also happen to be my own age, which is nice) and with people in other departments who have no association with him whatsoever. Not even remotely. <P>As a friend, I understand that I put her in the middle when I told her about my life. Not everyone has the same convictions as we do. I firmly believe that bad people continue to do bad things partly because of the complacency of those around them. I was friends with another co-worker until I found out that he cheated on his girlfriend of six years for over six months with a girl he met in a bar. He has since broken up with his girlfriend, but I won't spend time with him and his new gal. I won't validate that kind of relationship with my presence. <P>I never asked my friend to make a choice, but realistically, for my own healing I have to choose not to spend time with her if she is going to choose friendship with him. What sucks is that she knows better. She recently removed herself from a similar situation. She had been hanging out with a group of people who didn't share her values (i.e. drugs and alcohol), and had completely cut herself off from just about everyone who still had dealings with them. So, it hurts even more.<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited April 20, 2000).]

Hi Student -<P>I understand also, and I am sorry....<P>It hurts - not only losing her but it hurts because it is more pain caused "by him".<P>Grieve for your friend....not just the loss of her but for her inability to fathom and benefit from your experiences. She will find hurt of her own down the road somewhere because she did not heed your advice.<P>I am so encouraged by your own growth Student. You have such wise and emotionally healthy realizations going on. GOOD FOR YOU!!! <P>You are so right about complacency..I can't do that and therefore have felt "out of place" many times with many people....I was even told by my H that he doesn't want the people in his life to be in mine!! They aren't the most honest and moral people on earth and H (yes, even in his fog) knows that they should have better behavior. He just can't see that he is behaving the same way!!! The big jerk!!! LOL...sorry - off track....<P>Stick to your instincts and principals - they will help guide your way through the "muck" of complacent people and their complications.<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

Sheba,<BR>Thanks so much for the encouragement. The biggest thing I've learned from all of this is how funny the mind works with rationalizations. When I was lonely and sad, I selfishly spent time with the OM. I'm still lonely and sad sometimes, but refuse to sell my soul for companionship, or acceptance, or anything else. It is hard, very hard. ya know, if morals were easy, everyone would have them.... <P>I'm sorry to hear your H is still into the rationalizations. It can be very hard to turn away from companionship in any form. To make matters worse, usually huge shifts in thinking cause people to totally re-evaluate all of their friendships/relationships. But it doesn't sound like your H has gone through a huge paradigm shift, since he's still hanging out with the same crowd.<P>The way I look at it is like I'm an alcoholic. If I want to be sure to avoid this addiction in the future, I can't be around unreformed alcoholics or hanging out in places and with people that may lead me down the wrong path again.<P>Again, thanks for your encouragement. Hugs to you too (((Sheba)))

Student:<P>It sounds like you're handling this situation very appropriately. You may have to mourn the loss of this friend. I'm completely sure that she has no idea of how hurt you are---how could she? What experience would she have to draw from?<P>Like Sheba says, stick to those principles and instincts that are guiding you. You're doing fine...<P>

TS,<P>Just got back into town and see your post. No real advice to give. I believe you did get it right: she has no idea of what you have dealt with or how painful it is. <P>If that is truely the case then maybe you shouldn't write her off as a friend, but she will be a friend that you cannot confide you deepest thoughts and feelings to.<P>I KNOW that you would not stand for her telling you who you can associate and e mail to. I suspect she feels the same way. So just be friends with a small "f" and not Friends, "F" . <P>You do realize that some of your logic is illogical? After all you also did what OM did. If she associates with you, isn't she associating with the same type person as OM?<P>I realize that your main concern is her sharing with OM your deepest thoughts and feelings. You are wise to not share those feeling with her any longer. But, just as you have realized your mistakes and are duly chastized by them and are correcting them in yourself, others are doing the same.<P>So, TS, hang in there. Now that you know that she does communicate with OM, don't give anything to her that you feel can be shared with OM. Yet, you can still be a friend to her. Just not a really intimate friend any longer.<P>Sadly, people don't come in quantum units. All right, all wrong. We have many intermediate states. This means you have to examine the distribution functions and see where they tend to spend most of the existance. Mostly right or mostly wrong.<P>It really is a bummer but it does make people very interesting. <P>Sorry you have lost an intimate friend, but hopefully, you have not lost a friend.<P>Take care and God Bless,<P>JL

The Student,<P>I have no real words of encouragement or advice to say, but that I care and I hope you are doing okay. <P>So here goes my big cyber-hug to you......<P><B>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{TheStudent}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</B><P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com

Student,<BR>I have a good friend that works with my stbx. We always try to talk about anything but my H. But somehow the conversation gravitates to him. She tells me things she has overheard about our divorce.....what he is telling co-workers.....and most importantly....how he has snowballed some of them. <P>But here is the kicker......she has friendly conversations with him. No, I do not want her to hate him...but I feel so hurt when I hear about how she told him this joke or how they all went out after work for drinks.<P>She knows the truth....heck she has even been brought up in the custody evaluators office by my stbx...that she is nothing but trailer park trash. He has gotten into screaming matches with her....accused her of stuff....but she justs keeps on trucking. She says that sometimes she would love to just tell all of their co-workers what an @sshole he really is.....or how he is lying....but she has to work with him...so she keeps her mouth shut.<P>There have also been times when a co-worker will ask her if what he is saying is true and she will simply tell them.....I know what the real truth is....and leave it at that.<P>Her Aunt is one of their bosses and she thinks my stbx is the next best thing since squeeze ketchup....but she refuses to set her straight. Her Aunts sister and also my friends mom have both been through abusive marraiges. Her Aunt works very hard with Domestic Violence groups.....but my friend has never informed her once of the abuse that the girls and I have suffered because of my stbx. She has even witnessed his verbal and emotional abuse.<P>It hurts....so I know where you are coming from

JL,<P>you said:<BR>"You do realize that some of your logic is illogical? After all you also did what OM did. If she associates with you, isn't she associating with the same type person as OM?<P>I completely understand what you are saying. I've expressed the same to my friend. I've told her that it is completely possible that he has changed and has remorse, but hasn't expressed it. I've also told her that I'm completely aware that she has only heard my side. <P>I make a point not to discuss him in our conversations. She is the one who brings him up and tells me how annoying he is to her. So, the fact that she continues to associate with him in spite of what SHE has told me about her feelings towards him says two things to me...<P>a) She likes him and is too afraid to say so. So she is being dishonest with me.<P>b) She doesn't like him, but wants to keep the appearance of liking him because it serves her. So, then I have to wonder if she just puts on the appearance of liking me for the same reasons. <P>Either way, she doesn't seem to be the most honest person. <P>So, I intend to do exactly what you have said. She is now a friend, not a Friend. When I told her how I felt, I never told her what to do or who she could e-mail to. What I told her is that I'm having a hard time trusting her now. I told her that she had very clearly left the impression that his friendliness towards her was not solicited, but now I see that is not exactly true. She got mad, IMO, not because I was telling her who to e-mail to, but because I caught her being two-faced.<P>I even apologized for telling her about my life, because I realized that doing so might put her in the middle. In a way, I didn't trust her to make her own judgement about him, or I was afraid that if she did, it wouldn't be in MY favor. I'm very aware of my own selfishness. <P>My ex picked him out of a crowd the very first time he met him, and I didn't listen to him. I'm eternally sorry that I did not. He called him a snake, and said that all he wanted to do was get his d*ck wet. He was absolutely correct. In any case, I believe my (and my ex's) judgement of his character is STILL correct. I cared about her, and didn't want her to be sucked in by his supposed kindness like I had. He had previously expressed an interest in her, so I wanted to warn her. So my intentions weren't completely selfish.<P>MENTAL,<BR>I've got to wonder if some people just like being the center of attention. They play both sides because then the most number of people will "like" them. I don't trust people like that. Do you trust what your friend tells you about him, or her feelings about your stbx? I know I don't with my friend anymore. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited April 22, 2000).]

Hi Student,<P>Yeah, I have a friend who is a co-worker and remains friendly with both the OM and my H... she's played both sides against the middle for a long, long time. She buys the OM gifts, calls my H on his cell phone... all with the intention (she *says*) of making them both feel comfortable in the middle of this mess I created. Well... gee, thanks for making ME feel comfortable!<P>I get what you're saying here... and I say that you're right in your assumption that some people just need to be the center of attention. This friend of mine readily admits that she wants to be in the center.<P>I wouldn't write this person off, but you bet you butt I'm more careful around her... I sure as hell don't share like I used to, that much you can count on!<P>I loved JL's "f" vs. "F" thingy... that works for me!! This person is a friend, not a Friend. Good one, JL!!!<p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 22, 2000).]

TS and New_B,<P>One last thing I think you both touched on that is very important. Sometimes people aren't playing both sides against the middle. The sit in the middle to get the maximum gossip. May not be as evil an intent but, it can be harmful just the same.<P>TS, sounds as if you got this one nailed. Seem if you can find some Friends and just keep this friend at some distance.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

On the bright side, I'm learning how very fragile trust can be. Big things like infidelity are a no-brainer Little things can destroy trust pretty quickly too.<P>