Hello all,
<br>I'm not sure how far the posts go back, but I will try this again in the hopes that I can get some advice from some of you who seem to going through the same thing I am, sort of.
<br>After 23+ years of marriage, with three boys, my wife left me, saying those terrible words, I don't love you. Although I have never cheated on her, never beaten or abused her,there are other circumstances that led up to this.
<br>We were both substance abusers and my abuse landed me in prison.We have both been clean for 3 1/2 years and up until the time I came home everything seemed fine. We made plans for our family's future. I came home, got a great job, and it wasn't long at all before she announced that she was leaving. She took our youngest, and the two older stayed with me.
<br>I have managed to conquer my substance abuse problem through a program that made me take a look at my core issues,(the reasons why I felt I had to medicate myself), face my fears and make the right decisions that would lead me to become a productive citizen.
<br>My wife, on the other hand has been involved in n/a and this program has convinced her that she cannot stay married to someone she was co-dependant with. Her SPONSOR has convinced her by way of the BIG BOOK that she has to do whatever it takes to stay clean. Even at the cost of her marriage, her family, etc.,and she has become some kind of automaton that has lost her individuality. She would rather spend time with people that can't control their ADDICTIONS and feel as though in order to stay clean they must relive their pasts instead of acheiving permanent tranquilty, most of which she has known for very little time.Consequently, she has refused my requests to go to counseling in an effort to save our marriage and our family unit.
<br>She insists that she doesn't want a divorce, and that she isn't interested in anyone else. She comes to my home everyday and when she is depressed on upset she comes to me for support in the form of hugs or kisses, but it never goes any further. We have had no relations since I came home and I am at a loss as to where to go from here.
<br>At first I fought her tooth and nail, then I became angry, then despondent, the hopeless. Now I have managed to accept that this may never change and I may not ever get her back. My vows are very important to me and our family unit is paramount, however, I now realize that my children may now be faced with the very same issues that I had to deal with, broken home, divorced parents, etc., and it saddens me that she is willing to throw away what was a great marriage (we were also best of friends) because a few people have brainwashed her into believing that she is the only person that matters in this situation.
<br>I truly believe that if she were to agree to counseling we could begin to heal the hurt and repair our family.
<br>Well enough of that. Any advice from you who are going through the same thing would be greatly appreciated.
<br>Lost and lonely,
<p>John_98

John,
<p>You certainly have a tough one here. It sounds like the only thing causing an obstacle is this group she's part of.
<br>Question: What is the "BIG BOOK" that this sponsor has your wife convinced from?
<br>Are you refering to the Bible? If so I don't even have to know the verses he is using to know that if he is using the Bible to convince your wife not to be with you and the family then he is a flat out LIAR.
<br>If this is the case a potential antidote would be the proper interpretation of whatever this guy is twisting to establish a false meaning.
<br>If in fact this scenario is the case then I might be able to help you there.No bragging but I am pretty good at breaking such interpretations down to a simplistic level and showing the false one to be exactly that - false.
<br>Let me know.

Bruce,
<br>The BIG BOOK I refer to is what N/A uses to teach their members that participate. Many in the program refer to it as their Bible. It's funny, because my wife was raised a very devote Catholic and now she has been led to believe that the program is based on God, but it really isn't, because the Bible teaches that marriage and family are special and should ever be taken lightly.
<br>Maybe I should have said in my post that I am very thankful that she is clean, but at the cost of the family and marriage, is a high price to pay, when there are ways to do it and maintain a relationship that was once very special.
<br>I know in my heart that she still loves me, but she has been convinced that she has to do what she is doing in order for her to stay clean, and now she is so involved with her program and her SPONSOR, (a woman) that she can't admit that maybe, just maybe they aren't completely right in what they teach. From my own experience, most, not all, but most of those who depend on n/a do so because they can't come to terms with their own defeciencies, and need to be reassured that they are addicts and always will be. But I don't believe that, for if I did, I would probably use again when times get tough or I don't want to face reality.
<br>She won't go to counseling and I think it may be that she is worried that I may be just a little bit right in my opinions. Now bear in mind I have told her repeatedly that I will support her in the program, but not at the cost of hurting our boys and destroying our family.
<br>Any more advice would be appreciated.
<p>John

John,
<br> Why dont you go to meetings with her and be supportive. Also why dont you read the chapter called the family after. What you dont understand is that just putting down a drink or drug dosent change the person you are. I attend AA and thru the 12 steps of recovery I have gotten a relationship with the group, my children, my God and number one myself. Its a program of changing from the inside out. Its about taking others feelings into consideration and being the best person you can be on a given day. Stop worring about what you want and back her up and stand by her as she did for you. In time your wife will be back if you support her and what she's doing for her self, I'm sure of it. The best way to know about anything is doing it yourself and finding out what its all about. You may even find that you learn somthing about yourself and you can stop blaming others and look at what actions you can take to make her feel good about you. Show her how much she means to you by supporting her not fighting her. Good Luck
<br>Ken

Their are a couple of things I would say here that some will likely have a problem with.
<br>First, from the posts so far we do not know the situation other than the addiction problems. We certainly know nothing of the relationship between John and his wife in other areas, how good or bad it is as far as needs being met etc. so at this point I feel we cannot make educated comments on that. I have seen family members experience AA and the alanon group for family members of AA members. The program seems to work for a lot of people. One thing I have seen happen though is I have seen people trade one addiction for another, drugs or alcohol for
<br>twelve step programs, some to the point of neglecting family and work for the sake of "the group" I must admit it is better to be addicted to "group" than to substances but from what I have seen I do know what John is talking about when he mentions acting without freewill etc. and acting like an automaton. The other issue I take with AA is the concept of "higher power" that can be anything. There is only one higher power and one true God. In the post just before this one KenS says he developed a relationship with, notice the order, the Group, the Kids, God and he says most importantly himself. I feel that our biblical order of loyalty is clear, God, family, self.
<br>At the same time I agree with KenS in that I feel your wife will come around. You know how pushing someone to get clean never works and they have to get past denial etc. I think the same dynamic is at work here. Give her some space, let her get her confidence in her sobriety and be thankful for it, then see what happens. Count your blessings that an affair hasn't occured and that you both are on the right track

KenS,
<br>First, I've begged her to let me go with her and support her, but she refuses, stating that is her time, and I've accepted that. I too tried 12 step programs, but becuase I was never able to address the reasons why I chose to be self-destructive, I always took the easy way out and picked up again. After many years of using I finally was able to come to terms with my core issues and learned to get them out of me, to get rid of the resentments I had for the childhood that was forced on me, combined with much anger and hurt.Now, at least I am at peace with those issues and they are no longer a problem for me. You can't change who your are, but you can change the person you have become, by changing those things that made you pickup in the first place. As far as taking into account the feelings of others, she certainly isn't thinking of my feelings, and I don't really see her thinking of the boys, and now they too are showing signs of resentment and animosity towards their mother, which is indeed a high price to pay. As it stands now, it's all about her and I've accepted that, it doesn't mean that I have to like it, but I'm trying very hard. Bear in mind my boys have gone to meetings with her and they have heard the people talk about how one must leave their marriages, family's etc., and I will never agree with that, unless of course there was others forms of abuse,or adultery, etc. I feel as though I have my priorities in order after years of chaos, but one thing everyone who has ever known us would tell you our family unit was extremely solid, even with the drug use and my boys have always been taught that loyalty to God, Themselves and family were most important.
<br>I love my Wife with all of my being, but I have accepted the fact that I may never have her back. I did push her in the beginning but with acceptance comes a certain amount of patience, but for how long?
<br>Thanks KenS
<p>JKelly,
<p>As I said, my wife and I had a wonderful relationship, we were best friends, great lovers, shared the same hopes and dreams for over 23 years, now that is all gone. You seem to have it the nail on the head, she has replaced her dependancy on drugs with her program. I won't belabor the issue but suffice it to say that, would it be too much to ask of her to at least go to counseling, so we both could at least say we gave our all?
<br>And to all of those who have posted in the past here and to all those who have helped me, much gratitude. Any more insight would be appreciated.
<p>John

John,
<br> I dont know how long, for me its been 13 months, all I can say is read her books ask her about the program and show an intrest in what she wants. Like the doc says your in no position to bargin.
<br>JKelly,
<br>As for the order I put my relationships in, it was not in order of importance and dont feel I have to explain any more on that. The term higher power is used for people with different oppinions on who they pray to some Budda or ali what ever. even the group it self for an agnostic, AA has known that just trying to quit by your self is very hard and allmost allways ends in failure. As far as I'm concerned Jesus Christ is my higher power and thru him found AA and a more respectfull way of life. My problem was I dident like myself because of how I was when drinking because during that time my priororties had drinking at the top of the list on too many days. Thru God and AA my thinking has changed very much and the reason I said #1 myself is because I was the #1 problem. Hope you now understand. God and my family mean more than anything to me but without AA I would never found that out.
<br>Ken

John,
<br>Well, I don't know what else I can say. I've never had any addiction problems even though I did do some drugs in my teen years.
<br>While I'm glad your wife got clean I agree that there is something wrong with an individual or group that counsels separation from a family unless that family is doing them harm, which dosn't seem to be the case with you.
<br>If I were in your position I think I might try learning as much as I could about this group. Have there been any defectors from it or others who have made the criticism you make? See if you can find out just why your wife has made this drastic step. If you can understand it from the root you might be able to find a way to counteract it. That doesn't necessarily mean a frontal attack but it means you could use the knowledge to tailor your behavior in ways that will appeal to her.
<br>I don't know, John, I'm just brainstorming here and wishing I could hit on something that might help. I can't help thinking that your case has been experienced by someone else. That's almost always true. If you can find out any info along those lines then I would think it would be helpful.
<br>Just throwing this stuff out. Good intentions from another guy holding on to the life raft. Take care.

Bruce,
<br>Thank you for your input, and I've tried asking her if she would like me to go to meetings with her, but she refuses. I know quite a lot about the 12 step program, but maybe not enough to be able to relate to her. But I have learned one thing from this forum and that is that I'm not the only one suffering.
<br>At this point I'm concentrating on being the person she once loved, but clean. Making sure that I don't force the issue. I told her the other night while we were talking that I've accepted the fact that she has to do this for her, but I will never stop loving her, maybe I shouldn't send her messages like that, but if I can't be truthful then there is no point. While I'm on the subject of us talking, we rarely talk about this situation, casual conversation yes, but when I try to get her to talk she will listen to me, silently, then very often she gets angry, and it's not too long before she runs away. So I try not to do that either,because I cherish every minute I can have with her.
<br>Well enough of all that. Thanks again Bruce.
<br>Peace to everyone.
<p>John