H plans to take Children A and B this weekend. Children A and B asked him to pick them up at the normal time, then take them somewhere they wanted to go before taking them to OW's house. He said he'd think about it. He knows that Children C and D wanted to go somewhere else, simultaneously; and I am sure he is well aware that there is only one of me, and that the 13 year old doesn't have a driver's license. <P>He sent me email saying that he would pick up Child A and B after I took them where they wanted to go - obviously that means Children C and D can't go where they want to. In addition, he informed me that he would be bringing the kids back four hours early the next day. I'm not going to be home, so I emailed him that he could either bring them back before I left, or not take them this weekend. <P>This is a man, who, whatever faults he may have had, was always willing to take his kids anywhere they wanted to go. I don't remember him ever being too tired, nor it ever being too inconvenient, in 18 years. Even as recently as last summer, months after he filed, if they asked, he would take them. But something happened around the end of last summer - I don't know what - and what they want no longer seems to matter to him at all. He no longer cares if he changes plans at the last minute; no longer cares how that affects them. The kids can't count on anything. Perhaps this is the "new" visitation - amounting to 24 hours every 4 weeks. In a month or two he may decide that he only wants to take one of them at a time, or that mid-week dinners use too much gas (he's already used that excuse for reducing visitation before) - who knows? Yet in the settlement proposal, he asked for "standard" visitation, and in addition the ability to be able to see them whenever he reasonably wanted, with 24 hours notice.

Nellie,<P>They seem to have no feelings for their kids. My 8 year old told his dad that he didn't want to see the OW on his visitation with his dad, that it was his time and not hers. He doesn't see the kids much anyway. My ex told my son that the OW cried when she heard he had said that and ex didn't think it was fair for my son not to like her. I can't believe he laid a guilt trip on my son. What about all the times my son cried when his dad left? Ex has shown no concern for that at all. Was she being fair when she helped break up our home? She wasn't worried about my sons feelings when his dad left, why does she care if he likes her now? Ex told son that he just didn't love me anymore, we just couldn't get along, OW had nothing to do with it. We certainly got along until she came into the picture. I have no words of wisdom for you, just wanted to let you know that I am in a similar situation. I am beginning to believe he never cared about me or our boys. He doesn't care how much he hurts them, but he doesn't want the OW to be hurt. <P>AD

Not only is H an alien, he is brain dead....I do believe that when I spoke to him yesterday in person about a child, he is so far gone, that i truly wonder if ow is living inside of him.<P>If he is not depressed now, I hope that there is someone to pick up the pieces when he faces reality!!!I loved him with all his faults until I have finally let go. I could not take this man back...and I do not think he will ever come back as the man he once was.....he has caused not only myself, but the kids as well indescribable hurt (which will be ongoing with the kids due to his behaviour to them for many years) that I could never go back or even build with him a new relationship.

ad,<P>My H has used so many of the same words! He told me that the children are lucky to have people like the OW in their lives. But I know he did care very much about the kids at one time. That is what bothers me more than anything - the way he has treated me is bad enough, but I don't understand how he could let the OW come before his kids. Yeah - I know it's an addiction, but somehow that doesn't make me feel much better, and it certainly doesn't help the kids any.<P>willbok,<P>Sometimes I wonder if when my H lost his mind, he had to borrow part of the OW's - and I doubt she had much to spare. The man I am seeing now is not real - I don't know if my real H will ever reappear - but if so, I will be more than willing to build a new relationship with him.

I read stuff like this and it breaks my heart.<P>I am very lucky indeed in that my H has never, throughout three seperations, ignored his kids. He's going through this phase right now of Dad/kid trips. He takes one at a time for a special low-cost trip. Mine are all teens, and they prefer that to all going together. Plus, he drops by daily to say hello to the kids before he goes to work (he works swings, so they're always here by late afternoon). I have an open-door policy for him right now (I have no idea if it will ever change) but for now, he has the key, he is welcome to come by, and he also calls nightly to make sure everyone got home safely.<P>I really hope it's okay to say this... obviously I don't want to hurt anyone... it's just that I've spent so much time saying what a disappointment my marriage has become that sometimes I forget to mention the really nice things. Your thread reminded me of one of them.<P>My wish is that your H's realize what is missing with their kids. One day those kids won't want anything to do with them, and I pity them that.

new beginning,<P>My sons are already at the point they don't want anything to do with their dad. The things my ex said to my eight year old really hurt me and him, too. His dad never calls to see if we need anything, if we got home safely, or any other concern. We had some bad storms here the other night, with danger of tornados, and ex never checked on us. I feel he has no emotion left for any of us. I thought at one time he would regret this, but I am beginning to doubt it.<P>AD

AD,<P>I'm so sorry... for both your children, and for you. It must be very disappointing to realize that these children, conceived in love, are treated like that. <P>He's gonna be VERY SORRY when there's a function and your sons would rather take the neighbor to a father/son retreat than their own dad...<P>Very, very sorry!

nb,<P>I think the real issue is that most fathers who start to ignore their children are being pressured into it by the OW - pressured into spending more time with her and less with his kids. <P>So much of what he does makes absolutely no sense. Today he sent me an email asking me when he was going to get a response to the separation agreement proposal - a question that should be going through his lawyer. I think it is quite likely that he is not the one who suddenly decided to ask that question...<BR>

Nellie,<P>I *so* agree with you... this week my H told me that his OW was upset because he told her that he comes by here in the morning to pick up tools and have a cup of coffee with me... she thinks we should hate each other. We don't... OOPS, so sorry OW... now, maybe it will change... but for now I will continue making this house a safe place for him to come to as long as he likes. And, by the way, it isn't because I want him back, it's because I love him and want him to enjoy being here with his kids, and yes, I want to be as close to him as possible. You just don't toss away 20 years (our anniversary is next week, which will be hard). And maybe, somewhere down the road, if we do reconcile, he will remember that he was welcome here. My H, so far, has no desire to have ANYONE tell him what to do about HIS children - and I THANK GOD for that!

new beginning,<P>He is already seeing my son choose me over him. On his visitation last week, my son had a b-day party to go to and he asked his dad to bring him home so I could go with him. There is a big distance between my boys and their father, but it doesn't seem to bother him. I'm glad your h is still thinking of his kids.<P>AD

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nellie1:<P>So much of what he does makes absolutely no sense. <BR>[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your posts make me think of my W's 180 degree change about her life, and I know that she is repeating some of what she witnessed and interpreted from her family of origin. With the limited knowledge you have of his family for the last TWO generations, was there are unusual events that he would have witnessed that he could be repeating without knowing it. Not as much the D, but just the relationship as his father to him, or his GF to his F. I know my W is following in her parent's footsteps almost to the decade with job, outlook on life, relationship with me, and the kids. And yet she does not respect her parents. For people who have turned the switch off, there has to be something in the past to make it ok, or to say that this is a possibility, etc.<P>Its not just enough to know that his family did not divorce, my IL did not, but their relationship was childish, co-dependent, very ego- centric and physically sterile.<P>My MIL had an EA, went into a psychiatric ward for awhile, my W is convinced they SHOULD have divorced, and she comments that she does not want to live like they do.<P>It might take alot of digging, but there has to be something else. . . . I know in my case there is/ and I got convinced that it wouldn't happen to me. <sigh><P>

I just had a rather depressing conversation with my sister. I know she is trying to help, but she is so negative about the prospects for reconciliation. In addition, she reiterated her philosophy that life is so full of sadness and tragedy, one should take pleasure in whatever little things you can. If that is the case, what is the point? Not that you shouldn't take pleasure in little things, but to do so because basically life s**** somehow does not make me feel any better. She tried to convince me that I should work on developing a life for myself, not because it would make me happier now so much as because before I know it my kids will be grown and gone and I will need a life of my own. My youngest is not going to even graduate from high school for another 15 years, by which time I will be over 60. I think the last thing I should be worrying about now is what I am going to do when they all move out. For all I know, with six kids, there is a good chance that at least one will be living with me as an adult at any given time. <P>nb,<BR>My H is certainly trying to toss our 25 years together (20 married) away as if they never happened. Apparently my H is ok with having the OW tell him how to deal with his kids.<P>already divorced,<P>Our kids, especially our son, try so hard to get close to their father, and they have said many times that he doesn't act like he wants them to share their feelings with him. <P>WhenIfindtheTime,<P>My H's father was always distant and self-absorbed, as well as always favoring my BIL. There seemed to be little discussion of difficult subjects. I never saw his parents argue - generally, his father did what he wanted and his mother worked around it, or so it seemed to me. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited April 22, 2000).]

My H called late last evening (from the car) and said he was bringing the kids home then instead of the next morning, because one of the OW's kids was sick and they were afraid our kids would catch it. To his credit, he did ask me if it was ok - not that I would have ever had said no.<P>It is interesting that he didn't bring the kids home early when our daughter got sick there, or our son, or her other son. Why now? And why not earlier in the evening? I wonder why it was more convenient for him to bring them home then than the next morning?

Sounds like Father like son, in a conceptual kind of way. You should explore this further as it may give you the reasons that the aliens have landed. I understand my predicament completely, as it is a clash of values (liberal versus conservative) and loyal to the family of origin which is/was very emotionally charged and debilitating. I can't help my W, but I know that I was right after I read LBing. All the senseless arguments and misunderstood feelings were explained to me in that book, and I since I know where they come from, I feel much freer.<BR>I can see LBing them everyday.<P>Interesting point,<BR>My wife's conselor (spelling?) told her to watch out for my anger. I have been plan A'ing it but for unique reasons, have to leave her house by 7/1 (employer provided house). Since I have been Plan A and agreed to whatever she wants, she told me that she was going to get angry, but she never told me about what? my lack of anger?<P>her family communicated only by anger.<P>family of origin provides a great deal of information<P>