Kim: There we go, posting at the same time! I had found a little image of a woman jumping up as if she were doing a cheer--so, until I removed the URL, there was a way to view it (but it was too embarrassing to leave it and the evidence that I'd tried to use UBB [IMG} when it was prohibited).<P>I don't blame you or question you at all for feeling the way you do about not taking back your STBX---as you say, it would hang over you forever that he was capable of just up and leaving with no real notice to you. You'd be constantly worrying if he were about to do it again--at least, I think that's how I'd feel--EXTREMELY vulnerable. Not a good way to live.

"Also, I just don't feel anything for him anymore. Honestly. What love I had for him is gone forever. We're still close, of course, and we can be friendly, but there is no love or passion there. "<P>Kim, you sound like my W. That's her view and she's been real clear about it. But she hasn't brought up seeing the mediator at all, and outside of the lack of physical contact, we've been really close lately, more than normal. We see the couples therapist May 1, I think its time to see what's going on in her head....<P>"No, the best thing for me is to move on. "<P>I've certainly felt that, but not had the strength to do so on my own. Well, we'll see where it goes! See ya tommorrow!<p>[This message has been edited by chuckb (edited April 25, 2000).]

OK everyone, I agree and disagree. Chuck I think life with your STBX is a bit different than Kim's. Kim I see where you had to shut down in a way that possibly has no open doors. Chuck your situation maybe a growth spurt so to speak. It takes a lot to count the cost of what one is doing, and I do think finances can play a lot into how one group is different than another. Man or woman and which one leaves or shuts down is another factor. Also the reasons for break up make a big difference. I think we all have the chance to make a choice on being together or not. The not trusting one being there is at times hardly worth the risk especially if they are in a big way the bread winner. If one is growing by flexing their wings, it may be a plus for another situation. Kim I am going to give you a cheer without putting on that little dress as I can't take being laughed at today. OK? CHEEEEER UPPPPPP Not not Cheer UPs just UP

Kim, Chuck, Kate, MMT,<P>Welcome (I don't know how else to great you to this site!) !!!!<P>It sounds like you guys have some history together. This is a realively new site spun off from the Marriagebuilders BB.<P>Most here are newly divorced, me since 2-1-00, and others soon to be divorced.<P>I have to agree, it sure is difficult out there in the dating "world." I had one date so far, with a divorced woman with 2 kids, but it took 3 weeks to set up between her kids and my kids. Her kids are younger than mine and I guess I'm not "babysitter worthy" yet so the date had to be when her x had the kids. We haven't been able to get together for a month now and I haven't even been able to get ahold of her for a couple weeks so I'm sort of losing interest now.<P>I think I'm going to concentrate on my kids for now and not look and maybe someone will find me.<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger

This thought popped into my mind a little while ago as I was driving home from work (a grueling 12-minute drive!). For what it's worth, Kim (and that's likely not much) when we're feeling down it's hard not to imagine that <B>everyone else</B> is somehow having a riotous, exciting, love-filled life. I'm happy enough, but most days are pretty average and low-key, with few real <I>thrills</I>. In fact, my thrill (or <I>frisson</I>) today occurred when <B>desire and opportunity</B> intersected......<P><BR>(Aha! I've got your attention now, you rascals!)<P>Picture this: I had a hankering for Frito's (original flavor) Corn Chips and...LO AND BEHOLD!--the staff lunchroom snack machine actually had them in stock!! Since I only "hanker" a few times a year for them, and since the machine is often not stocked with them, I was VERY pleased. Wow--what a life I lead!!<P>Think of the Frost poem, Kim--The Road Not Taken. He was sorry he couldn't take both roads, but in a way, you get that chance. You took the first one when you got married, but now you're in Frost's position in the first stanza where he says, "...long I stood, And looked down one as far as I could, To where it bent in the undergrowth..." Of course, he took the other, sort of like you did when you married, but now you're back at the fork, and can travel down the other. (Well, the analogy isn't very good, but do you know what I mean?)<P>Speaking of Frost, I have to say I have a soft spot for "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening." And miles to go before I sleep... <p>[This message has been edited by KateB (edited April 25, 2000).]

"Stopping by Woods on<BR> a Snowy Evening." And miles to go before I sleep... And I pray to the Lord KATE'S Frito's (original flavor) Corn Chips I get to keep. Yes Kate such excitment. LOL<BR><P>------------------<BR>Married Man Trying & doing better day by day.

Hey MMT! You give those Fritos back!!! I'll not allow you to abscond with MY thrill!<P>Seriously...how are things going on the "home front"? Sounds like you're in a situation where you're getting LOTS of mixed messages: the marriage is on, the marriage is off, the marriage is on... Am I reading it right, or missing something?

Yeah, how are YOU, MMT? I've been hogging the board with my sob story today! I just always figure everyone will jump in when they need to.

Hi back at you, RWD! Yeah, we all have some history. We all met up at another site that wasn't working too well. After 2 moves, here we are (until we break this site too! LOL) <P>Thanks for sharing your dating story. My divorce isn't final yet...another 3 or 4 months it looks like. But we've been separated for 7 months and the marriage has long since been done in that time. I wasn't looking to date, but I met someone who was very persistent and wore me down, so to speak. It's been about 4 months of really getting to know this person by talking before I agreed to go out with him. I guess by then the "3-month rule" of infatuations wearing off kicked in and we let the complications in our lives win out. I can see where it will get complicated with children, though. I'm a single mom now, and I only get a break every other weekend. You can't introduce the children to every new date you have, because they can't understand. But I know now that I wasn't quite ready, as much as I bragged I was, and I have to get my head on straight before I try again. But like you said, I think you have to relax about it and not go looking for it. I give that advice all the time but find it hard to follow myself. <P>PS...Thanks for the hugs everyone....I needed them today!!!<P>PPS....I wonder how Jane's wedding went? Chuck....did you send her the new thread's location too?<P>PPPS.....Kate, thanks for the reference to the other Frost poem. I liked that and hadn't thought about it. I'm trying to live that philosophy though....I get another chance to travel that "other" road...make another choice in life. <P>PPPPS.....(I know.....getting obnoxious). Kate, I realize that I'm looking for some fantasy world where the love and passion abounds, but I have lived as a housewife for 10 years and know the realities. I like the stability and spurts of excitement that come with those realities, but I also like the thought of starting off down that other road with a big burst of romance and passion! See...many women have their "Hot and Cold" moods when it comes to relationship issues. Not this girl! I treat all my relationships with the "Hot" faucet turned on full blast. Like I said before, I'm very passionate (intense......not sexually I mean) about my relationships. I've never gotten into one just to be in one. Oh no...I'm back to the casual thing again.<P>This is way too long....no one will read it! LOL

Chuck, it's not that you haven't had the strength to say you're ready to move on....like I've said before, while you are still living together, there is no moving on. But keep things in perspective. You've been working on the marriage for so long now, a few more months isn't going to matter as far as you moving on. You have to keep working at it as long as you feel a need to. (Otherwise, you wouldn't be going to the couples counseling, would you?) I keep telling you, you'll know it when it happens. It will hit you in an instant like a ton of bricks. Something clicks and you say "ENOUGH!" Just like that. So as long as you look for it (just like me and my fantasy world), it will elude you. Don't get me wrong....I would love nothing more than for you to become a success story and have your wife see the light. (Of course, then we can't have our rendezvous down the road then, can we? LOL Had to do that....break in the flirting on the new site.....it'll probably break now! What can I say....Kate and MMT crave Fritos.....I crave flirting? What do you crave, Chuck?)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KimP:<BR>[B]Chuck, it's not that you haven't had the strength to say you're ready to move on....like I've said before, while you are still living together, there is no moving on. But keep things in perspective. You've been working on the marriage for so long now, a few more months isn't going to matter as far as you moving on. . .<P>(yes, i found the new board and i'm freaked by the amount of traffic in two days - most of which i missed while packing to move to california)<P>chuck - another perspective is to do a 180 - just get your **** together and move - i've done that and at first, thought i might do it in a way which would save the marriage and then quickly realized that i just need a change - need to move on - if, in the end, it has the effect of changing things in the relationship, that would be frosting on the cake but the key point is the "make yourself happy" thing<P>julia and i spent the last couple of days filling out the remaining divorce papers and sending them in and have been incredibly loving with each other - she left me a sweet voice mail while i was on the plane this morning and i called when i got here and she was horribly sad, depressed and upset - it finally all hit her (she's got several people in her life who are gravely ill, too, so that doesn't help)<P>i'm in a pretty darn positive space (but tired from all the effort of getting ready to move and the emotional nature of the last few days) - kim, you are a love and i hope you will get to a place to look outside and see the opportunities in the future, not the lost past! - are you depressed? i seem to remember we talked about depression a few months ago<P>Mark<P>p.s. this is the same software as the last board so i'm not expecting miracles :-)

Chuck: That's really too bad what happened to you on Michele's site. I'm embarassed to admit that I have been on her site for almost a year now. I really like it and have met a lot of good friends there - some I have even met in person. But I have to agree something happened over the weekend and the times were all off, the dates were screwy - a mess. She stated in her thread that she is redesigning the web site. Oh well. I will check in on you guys here.<P>Yes like all the rest of us here - I am going through the big D initiated by me because my husband found someone else, moved out of state and lives with her there. You will all want to bop me over the head but I still love him and always will in spite of. I believe some martian came down and nabbed him and replaced him with this look alike. We are very good friends, have worked towards a settlement and in fact court was today but it didn't get finalized. My children are my everything and believe they need both mom and dad in their life. Perhaps down the road me and the kids may move to where he is at (don't throw your new shoes at me). I don't like my job - haven't for 2 years, I have no family left here to help me with the kids and his folks are out of state as well. So that is my story!<P>KimP: I think you posted regarding dating. I have to agree with you. I am so out of touch with what is accepted now days and what is expected as well. I am not a casual sex person - I have to have feelings for someone - I just can't jump in the sack because I have needs and so does he. Yuck! I know I'm a fuddy duddy and old maid and I'll likely never have sex again without a battery but I just don't have the energy and desire at this point to give it a 110% to getting to know someone. So, all I'm saying is don't feel alone!<P>Missy2

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Kim--you said: "Kate, I realize that I'm looking for some fantasy world where the love and passion abounds, but I have lived as a housewife for 10 years and know the realities. I like the stability and spurts of excitement that come with those realities, but I also like the thought of starting off down that other road with a big burst of romance and passion! See...many women have their "Hot and Cold" moods when it comes to relationship issues. Not this girl! I treat all my relationships with the "Hot" faucet turned on full blast. Like I said before, I'm very passionate (intense......not sexually I mean) about my relationships. I've never gotten into one just to be in one. Oh no...I'm back to the casual thing again."<P>Ohhhh! I hear you! I also think I'm a bit on the intense side, or I wouldn't feel the need to post to these boards. My "thing"--or what seems to be motivating me--is this horror of having a "mediocre" relationship. I look around at some of my friends/acquaintances, and I think, "Wow--their relationship with their S really STINKS." An example: a co-worker I've become close to was mentioning that for Valentine's Day, her husband really wouldn't be doing anything "special." I mean, no card, no "Happy Valentine's Day!", no extra-long hug... That was totally depressing. And I think: "How could I BEAR being in a marriage like that?!" So I'm always trying to tweak things, but try to be mindful that at some point it doesn't work to be TOO intense--I really think men's take on marriage is a little different, and all the tweaking and fiddling throws most of them off. <P>But I see what you're saying (at least, I <B>think</B> I get it): you understand the realities of a long-term relationship, but are ready for the thrills that come when you are falling in love. See--you get to do that again! <B>Very</B> fun! And I just KNOW it will happen for you, as your cute, funny, kind personality shines through on your postings!<P>Edited because I keep digressing and forgetting to use a closing parenthesis...<P>[This message has been edited by KateB (edited April 25, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by KateB (edited April 25, 2000).]

Wow, Mark...I didn't realize you were moving so soon. I'm glad for you, though. I know this decision weighed heavily on your mind and heart, and I truly believe you are doing the right thing. Besides, it's only temporary. If it's not all you hoped, then you get to decide what to do next in a few months, right? <P>And you're right that Chuck does have the other option....doing a 180 and getting out. He just doesn't sound ready to me, and I think he would forever question that decision if he did it at this particular moment (which could change in 5 minutes anyway).<P>So, am I depressed? No. I don't think I've ever been truly in a depression that I can think of. I have a pretty good coping mechanism. Am I sad? Sure! Did my laundry and dishes get done today? You bet! Did I still exercise and eat right today? Absolutely! I think I'm going to be OK. Just sad that things are so complicated in life. Sad that not everyone is as wonderful and wise as all you good people here. But still optimistic that I have that other fork in the road to take.

Hey Kate! Cut that out! You posted while I was typing!! LOL <P>You got my message right. I AM looking forward to the thrill of falling in love again and then the stability of what comes with staying in love. And your description of your friend's boring marriage and the Valentine story could have come from my home. I did try to stay close with notes, cards, hugs.....he wanted none of it. Once we were married, he changed to a cold person, very unemotional. It was very sad. I never would have left him for it, but it was sad nonetheless.<P>I think I'll go to Blockbuster on Friday night since it's my kidless weekend and see who's available.....OOPS......I mean WHAT'S available to rent! Sorry...just being silly!

Kim: Keep at it, girlfriend! You're stronger than you think--that's my impression.<P>Missy: Hey--you don't have to be a "fuddy duddy or an old maid" not to want to jump into bed to scratch a sexual itch with some dude who's a comparative stranger to you. These days it's damned risky--and that's not even thinking about emotional trauma.

Hi, Missy! No, I'm not going to throw my new shoes! I like them too much. LOL You know, I remember when you posted on the other site, but I had a work crisis and never got to talk with you on the children in divorce issue, but I wanted to. I have an 8-year-old son. The divorce has been very hard on him. He seems to handle it well, but he's keeping it all inside and gets very sad in school sometimes. Luckily, his teacher has been wonderful with him and helps him tremendously. I stay close to him too. We need each other emotionally right now more than ever. <P>I agreed with what you said in those old posts that it's heart-wrenching to see a parent walk away from their children. I could almost handle my STBX walking away from me, but NOT our child. Our relationship was not volatile in any way and there were no affairs (that I know of but doubt). If the roles had been reversed, I would have considered hanging in there until our son was older. I know many will disagree, but after seeing first-hand what it does to a child, I have to consider that option. <P>I give you credit, Missy, for putting your children first. You are their everything right now. They must feel abandoned by their father. Your consideration of moving closer to him is not out there. If you don't have any local ties, then it's a very good option. Just please don't do it for YOU to be closer to him. You may have the worries and fears I do about dating and starting over, but pay attention to what Kate has said about we are now getting the opportunity to choose the other fork in the road; to explore the other path in life. They can't ALL lead to a bad place, can they? I have to be optimistic that life will be better for all of us. These things are happening for a reason, and we are meant to deal with them. And we ARE dealing with them. That's why we are all here talking, too, right? <P>A question for you, Missy (if you choose to answer......we obviously get real personal here!) If your H cleared his head and cleared his life of his current distractions and asked to come home, would you hesitate to take him back? I only ask, because, as I have said, I am not willing to take back my STBX. I have lost the trust and lost the love. I understand you still have the love, but how would you get past the trust issue? I'd love to hear your take on this.

Kim: In terms of movies...do you like lots of twists and turns? Have you seen "Sleuth" with Michael Caine and Lawrence Olivier (1972--it's not new). It's a goodie and Olivier chews up the scenery in a very funny, engrossing way. For classics and oldies, too, I've always adored Bette Davis in "All About Eve." ("Fasten your seatbelts everyone...it's going to be a very...bumpy...ride!")<P>If you just want to get turned on...from my point of view: most movies with Jeremy Irons (tingle!). The French Lieutenant's Woman is good--there's just something about a man in (period) uniform--very hot. (Aside to Chuck: Post something that shows more than just the stockings...they're fine, mind you, but we need MORE.) Another great little movie that isn't terribly well known is "The Wedding Banquet," directed by Ang Lee, who also directed "The Ice Storm."

Well, I'm a movie fanatic and love everything from the oldies to the new sci-fi thrillers. I never know what I'm in the mood for til I get there and look, so I'll keep those in mind. I never saw "Sleuth." It sounds like it would keep my attention. (I have a hard time sitting through a whole movie by myself sometimes.) <P>And, yes, Chuck.....the stockings just ain't cuttin' it! (listen to Kate or I'll be sending her YOUR face pasted on Jeremy Irons' body!!! Then you won't be safe!! LOL)<P>Think we can make it to page 4 tonight and freak Chuck out tomorrow?<P>All this talk of kids made me feel like mom of the year tonight. It's Easter break and the kids are home. I let my son sleep out in a tent with the neighbors (2 girls!!) It's going to be cold tonight, so they'll probably end up inside anyway! I just made them some popcorn and lemonade and took it to them and now they think I'm "so cool!" LOL I just love being cool! Now the popcorn smells so good I have to have some!