Missy2, It sounds as though you have a great deal of wisdom to share with many of us. I must be tough having children late in a marriage. It would seem each person could have gotten well established and selfish with only the two of you to think about. I can see where kids then would be like bringing a freight train into the living room. LOL I have two boys 8 and 14. They have a way of filling up a WHOLE house. My wife and I have to determine to have time for us. We forget to do that at times and drift very far apart, enough so that a few weeks ago we to were starting the process of divorce. With support of these lovely people and the reality of separating property we have decided to try again at our marriage. Our boys were also very vocal in expressing their wishs for our staying together. Each of us are very different in where we are at, but are so very alike in our needs and ability to help one another. I feel we need to keep the words flowing as they do help us or someone.

Theo, it was great to get your welcome. Thank you very much.

Hey, thanks, theo! I'm looking forward to getting better acquainted with this site and some of the "personalities."

Theo, you have to watch some of us. Chuck dreams things, Kate tells us weird interpretations of them. Kim keeps stealing the community Chevy Vega for joy rides etc. Kate has been known to Flash her husband of a few to many years {depending on which story and what day of the week} on his lunch hour while she is driving the Vega. Keeps spice in their lives you know. At one point Kate and I were very sure Chuck and Kim were setting with his and her computers side by side just trying to get us to spill our guts onto this imaginary paper. What a group and to think we don't need help.

That MMT.....he has us all figured out!!<P>Hey, Theo. Hi there and thanks for the warm welcome! I was getting a little nervous that we were breaking some rules I was unaware of. NOT my intention, honest!!<P>I liked what you said about this site being full of people willing to be honest without judgement and also some good humor. That is EXACTLY what we have all been striving towards for so long. We have been very honest with each other (and everyone else who will listen), yet there is no judgement. There's no need for that. And the humor thrown in the mix lightens some days that are otherwise difficult to face sometimes. I'm sure you know what I mean. Well, I'll be searching around the site when I get a chance. Like Mark said, we're all working folks and don't always have the time to go to all the areas on-line that we'd like to. (I know that "Vega Drivers Anonymous" site is calling to me, but I just haven't found it yet.) LOL<P>Thanks again, Theo!!

cool...I had a '72 Chevy Vega wagon (with wood paneling and a luggage rack on top!) in the early 80's, and I took my joyrides very, very seriously...<P>My STBX (ugh, first time I've used that acronym) and I both have '84 Volvos. Hers is brown, has 4 doors, and is an automatic...and wouldn't start yesterday so she had to call AAA to tow it to a shop...exactly one week after I signed it over to her....hmmmmm.<P>Mine is tan, 2 doors, and a 4-speed! I'd be happy to donate it to the 'community' once the Vega breaks down (and it will...those aluminum engines can't last forever)...<P>theo<P>

I know.....I said I was going to work now, but the talk of Vegas got me going again! So what color was it, Theo?? We had a run on the green ones in this group! Pretty scary. <P>So you have a STBX.......how soon? Where are you in the process? (I assume pretty far since you are signing over property.) I'm pretty close myself. We have everything split and it looks like my state will give us our walking papers in about 3 more months. It still seems somehow surreal at times. I keep looking through the window thinking this is happening to some other family......can't be mine. But it is, and I'm dealing with it. How are you handling your situation? OK, I hope?

Ok, guys.....after all my crabbing about my "friend" yesterday.....and after he and I burned up the e-mail discussing our situation and deciding to be just friends....I figured I'd give it a rest and not e-mail him this morning (like I usually do) to let things cool down. Well, he e-mailed me about noonish to ask why I wasn't speaking to him? Weird or what? I did e-mail back and just talked about my day. Ok, men.....explain this to me, because I sure can't figure you all out! (Except Chuck....I have you ALL figured out! LOL)<P>OK....and my stupid question for the day..how do you get the smilies inside your messages?? Why can't I figure that out? LOL

Hey Kim, where there wasn't wood paneling, it was white. I wish I could have said green, but...<P> We're very early in the process of our separation/dissolution. We've both talked to lawyers and my W & I have just about worked out everything on our own except custody...we're close on that one too. We're supposed to have a joint meeting with the lawyers sometime in the next few weeks to iron out the rest of the details. We're seeing our marriage counselor tomorrow morning too...have been since week 1. Not sure what good it's doing, maybe helping ease the transition; it's not necessarily counseling the marriage. I'm coping ok now, but here's my first thread on this group from however long ago it was (3 weeks?)...<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/002291.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/002291.html</A> <P>I'm done for today...see y'all later...<P>theo<P>

Wow, Theo. I just went and read your story. You have had so much going on in such a short time! I give you a lot of credit for keeping it together, especially for your children. They sure need us, don't they? It's tough, but you sound like you're doing just fine. And keep going to the counselor as long as you feel you are getting something out of it. Any extra help you can get at this point can't hurt.

theo: Wow! Things are moving so <B>fast</B> with a separation/divorce. I read the earlier thread, and my impression from that was that you were anxious to slow things down, in part to give your W time to discover she may be making a huge mistake. But now it looks as if it's "full steam ahead" with at least a separation. (Have I got this right?) Was that <B>her</B> idea? Where do you stand at this point--wanting to "fix" things or ready to just give up? ...Or somewhere in between?<P>BTW, the "Vega" thing originated on another thread and I'm not even sure I could explain it in a way that would make ANY sense at all. (I owned a white Vega, myself; Kim's family had a green one--now you say you had one, too!) Somehow the car keeps popping up in our posts. I like the way MMT put it--it's become our community car.

Theo,<P>I checked your posts and realize you're only weeks into this... you've done great to keep things together! I really think waiting to see how things evolve is a good idea. The consequences of divorce are life long, not only for yourself, but also for your kids.... so take your time. <P>And divorce is in many ways one of those paths that can be easy to start and then takes on a life of its own. Remember.... there's really two 'divorces': the legal one and the emotional one. I think the leagal one should simply be the final crossing of the Ts and dotting of the Is. If you think divorce is inevitable, then work on getting the emotional part squared away first... then you're in more control and it will be easier. At least that's how I see it.<P>Kim... look for the 'Smilies Legend" on the left.... the cheat sheet it there!<BR>

Chuck,<P>about 2 weeks ago, I saw that you had suddenly sprouted up, FULL-BLOWN over at divorce busters. Your opening post over there said that "many" of you had read DB and found it most helpful. You also said on Michele's site that you came to DB because your old posting site, OPEN FORUM, had been losing too many of your posts.<P>Then Michele deleted your thread off her board, and now SUDDENLY you appear at marriage builders FULL-BLOWN, and in your opening post you NOW write:<P>"This is a continuation of a thread dealing with going through the actual process of dissolving a marriage. The original thread was located at a site no longer in operation. MANY of the folks here HAVE READ Dr. Harvey's books, and they are a great source of HELP."<P>It is clear that you just don't understand why your group's aggressive behavior disturbs people on the new boards you "join." <P> But, usually when a person SINGULAR, comes to a new site, they slowly get to know everyone and become a part of the board, by reading the posts already there. And, they also start by answering posts and sharing their own story slowly with the other members of the board.<P> This is both a respectful and courteous way to "join" onto a new board. This is considered "proper" board etiquette, if you will. The way your GROUP handles things, is seems like you are barging in and being disrespectful to the rest of the board.<P> It may not be your intent, but it comes across VERY MUCH like you are just USING marriage builders or ANY OTHER SITE you've landed on...just for your own wants and needs. You 6 just land somewhere and start posting like crazy.<P> It feels like an invasion. No one knows who you are, and despite saying that anyone is welcome, it is very much your own self-described "chat room." <P> And, it is abundantly clear to the rest of us here, that your purpose for joining THIS site, has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the principles of marriage builders, any more than LAST week, it had to do with believing in DB principles. And, you have admitted as much. You seem to board hop a lot.<P>I agree with Terri, it feels somehow "wrong" for you to be here, especially because of the way you just show up places FULL-BLOWN. It feels like you are "using" us. You are NOT here because of marriage builder's principles at all!<P> And, while these forums are so-called "public forums," you seem to misunderstand what that means. These sites are owned and operated and PAID for by the group that started them. This site belongs to Dr. Harley, just as DB belongs to Michele. They both started THEIR web sites to help people to save their marriages using the principles they believe in.<P>Maybe, this will help you to understand why your SUDDEN seeming "invasion" of this site, has engendered some hostility from other members.<P>I think that your constant and almost instantaneous repeated posting is inappropriate for a DISCUSSION BOARD like this one. You treat it, as you said, like a chat room. I am puzzled as to why you don't just go to one of the many chat rooms out there? These boards are NOT meant to be used the way you 6 are using them.<P>The key word here is DISCUSSION, which involves posting and reflecting.<P>I hope you all stay and JOIN in our board the way most of us do, because you are most welcome here. <P>I am not trying to be mean either, I just hope that this may explain to you, and help you to understand why your presence generates some anger at these boards.<P>Good luck!<P>~skye~<P><p>[This message has been edited by skye (edited April 26, 2000).]

Forgot to add, Kim--you can find the smilies to the left of the box you type your replies in. There they give the codes you use to insert them.

Wait a moment, let's get some things clear.<P>I am committed to DB and Marriage Builders principles, and I have bought the books, read them, and put the ideas into practice. And had I not I would be divorced today, and my wife nor I would not have made any progress in dealing with some the issues in our marriage.<P>The site I started this topic at actually asked me (and several others who frequent the topic ) to help them figure out what they should do next. And I spent hours documenting and assisting them in dealing with technical problems they were having. I do not 'crash' into sites for entertainment. However, I also cannot spend all my time troubleshooting technical problems. That is why I moved the topic to the DB site and why when they started having troubles I moved here.<P>I have been posting elsewhere within this site and understand that this is a give and take environment. The fact that this topic is faster paced than others has its plusses and minusses, obviously the 'chat' nature of things bothers some but please, take the time to read this topic, there is serious and meaningful dialogue going on, including with new participants that we appreciate.<P>I apologize to anyone that feels like we've 'invaded'. The choice of words I have used in the last couples days has obviously touched some folks in the wrong way. However, the fact that this group of strangers has become a group of friends, that we've actually solved some problems and are working on others and making progress, that we are coping with the things we cannot change, ALL OF THIS IS THE REASON FOR THIS OR ANY SIMILAR BOARD EXISTING. <P>Disk space is cheap, the hardware cost of all the text we may create is literally pennies. Some of the folks that followed me here may not have read any of the Marriage Builders books, so book sales may also result.<P>I'm sorry, but I really feel that the criticism being leveled is not justified. As I stated earlier, if the site administrators have a problem, then they should contact me and I will respond in a responsible way. However, no one has to be here, and if you don't like this topic simply don't participate in it.<BR>

Theo, I was impressed with your process and progress. I am sorry for the pain you have felt and are going through. Thank you for leading us to your thread and I will try to post there later. I would like an up date on your progress now as I think the last up date there was about the 11th.

Chuck,<P>you are absolutely right, it is only up to Steve Harley to decide the appropriateness, of your group using Marriage Builders as you are doing.<P>You and I will just have to agree to disagree, on the appropriateness of your methods and implementation.

Chuck, MMT, KimP, KimB, Theo - thank you for all your kind words and concers. I wish you well as we continue our ride down the roller coaster of life!<P>I am not up to dealing with the politics on this board and the toes we are apparently stepping on. Therefore, I will go back to where I am comfortable. <P>May GOD Bless you and keep you all safe!<P>Missy2

Missy2 Thank you very much and know we care. Please let us know where you are {I think Kim, Kate or Chuck will up date me on your thread over there} as I would like to cover more with you and am standing with you in your move forward. God Bless and Keep you.<P>------------------<BR>Married Man Trying & doing better day by day.

I feel like a lone body standing here all alone. Have I been deserted. We aren't bad people just ones wanting to help and be helped. I will check back at another time.