I am just venting here.........I don't want to men bash,but I am soooo disgusted right now.....I can't even see straight!<P>I went w/a friend......(she is divorced)My H only moved out a couple of weeks ago and I am very much intent on getting him back.....<P>Anyway went w/this friend to a church support group for seperating/divorced people..<P>I can't believe that these men are only seperated and they are working the room!!<P>Please tell me that there are good men out there that think more w/there brain than there "lil-one".......<P>I am sorry........I know that this is coming out strong.....but this is trully depressing!<P>So much for finding friendship,companionship.<P>Sigh........Sigh......Sigh......<P>Gina

Gina,<P>I would like to tell you that maybe its there way of coping with their loss, but I'm not sure. I'm starting to wonder if I'm not "normal" because I'm not hitting on every woman that walks by.<P>I has some guy at my divorce recovery workshop tell me we had alot to choose from in our group, yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!<P><BR>This was from a guy who married a woman after meeting her prior to her divorce, 2-3 months later. He later discovered that she is a gold digger!<P>Soory to hear about your problem, I blame it on society that tells us we need somebody to take us away from our problems. Thats what got all of us in the mess!!!!!!! We wouldn't be getting divorced if we had all stayed single!<P>Things will improve. Just keep you radar up and running and you will find some good ones out there.<P>Bob

Bob,<P>Thank you!.......<P>It just really confirmed in me that I don't agree w/seperations and that men only look at it as being single and trying to score!!<P>I am more than just a great roll in the hay!!<P>I am going to put my all into this marriage and getting my H back home!........<P>If this marriage fails......I will have a very hard time sorting through the "good" guys and "pigs".......<P>For me....it has to start as friendship,companionship......(good god,it took my H a year before he "scored".....)<P>I am such a honest person......and believe that what I give out and how I treat people I expect that in return!!!......."golden rule"......How am I supose to know that these guys are not just going w/the flow and doing what ever to than eventually get the "prize"??????????????<P>I know that I shouldn't be even thinking about this.....it scares me to death!!!<P>It is trully depressing!<P>Thanks for letting me vent!<P>Take it easy......Gina<P>

Yes,<P>One recently divorced friend of my wife's started hitting on her right away, and after six months, she gave in. He is getting divorced after an affair (i don't know who as I got both sides of the story). <P>She denies it, but shows all the classical signs of EA/PA.<P>So how do I do Plan A on the way to the mediators, after she finally got her head doctor to tell the ONLY way to find out is<BR>through separation?<P>I have been doing Plan A-, but how to keep it up at mediation? <P>thl

Dear WIFTT,<P>I have to go........<BR>(I'm helping out a friend for a fundraiser<BR>"Relay for life". Car Wash.....)<P>I will respond back to your Q.....<BR>This afternoon!<P>Don't know if it will help or not.......I am having a hard time my self......<P>Just trying to be nice and pleasent.....don't know if that is enough???<P>Take it easy..........<P>Gina<P>

Gina, <P>It isn't just men, women do it too! Just ask my H!!! And churches, remember, are filled with - egad! - PEOPLE, so it isn't any 'safer' then going to a secular function. I know, you'd think there would be some better moral fiber, but people are people wherever you go!<P>Bob, <P>Society may dictate we find someone new 'quick' but I say it's human nature. Remember how 'The Student' says she never wants another H... there are SOME people who work on themselves first and then begin the 'work' of finding a mate. But I think it's a 'people' thing. It sure is for me. I love having people in my life, I love being part of a couple, and for most of my 20 yr. marriage I loved being married. <P>WhenIfindthetime,<P>That's a tough one, and I haven't been through it, but you might want to begin a new thread to ask just that question.

Hi NB,<P>I too was happiest as a couple. I mourn the loss of that almost everyday. <P>w.g.up.h asked something like, "how do you know that men are not just being nice to get the "prize". The answer is, you don't. Even if you wait until after marriage to have sex, there is no guarantee that they have what it takes to stay the course. Then if it does end, all that time you spent with that other person is essentially flushed down the toilet. There are other people in the world who can benefit much more from my time, love, and energy, than any one man. As much as I enjoyed my married existence, I see it as a huge waste of my time now that it is over. As far as I'm concerned, it was all a great big lie. <P>I would love to be happily married for the rest of my life, but I've failed twice now. Partly due to my own mistakes within marriage, but also due to my bad choices in men. The odds are not in my favor, and I'm realistic. <P>I'm realistic that the kind of man who could maintain a life-time relationship is not going to bet on me. The rest of them are happy to "go-with-the-flow" with me, or other women, till they find someone better. It doesn't bother most people, at least 50% or more, to swap partners every few years. It bothers me, which is why I'm not dating and won't remarry. <P><p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited April 30, 2000).]

Hey Student,<P>Oh yes, I understand... and I respect you loads and loads, which is why you'll never see me trying to convince you otherwise.<P>I, on the other hand, am a romantic fool, and I love the whole married thing from head to foot. I love the idea that I take someone's name, that I have someone to call when life is good/bad, that I fall alseep next to someone... and I will continue trying to find that 'someone' until the day I die. I have no doubts that that's so... it's a "me" thing. <P>Yes, I believe what w.g.up.h was asking was re: slimy men who should know better. My point is that there are women too, and also that churches, as in all places on earth, are filled with people. And people are just people wherever you go.<P><B>**</B>Student, Doncha just love being dragged into a conversation? Hope that was okay, I usually don't do that... but I have to say that you intrigue me. I love your strength of character!<P><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 30, 2000).]

To Everyone.........<P>I am much better now.........I still need to put my energy into saving my marriage......<P>It isn't over till the "fat lady sings"! <BR>(or the papers are signed!....)<P>After being w/someone for 15 years......that is all of my adult life!......it scares me to dealth of having to deal w/the "single" life! <P>I would like to say that I would never have anything to do w/men again!!!<P>I am also a romantic fool!!!.........<BR>Having a great friendship......going out dancing to skating,to a romantic dinner,or just staying home snuggled up in blanket watching our favorites movies!!! <P>Yes.....the sex is wonderful......but that is like the icing on the cake!......the cake has to be there first!!!......<P>It is trully depressing to even think about it......so I will try real hard to not!<P>I will be thinking of all of you.......<BR>I am hanging on......and will let you know what happens!<P>Thanks......Gina

I don't think there is any way to tell the "good guys" from the jerks. If there is one thing that I have learned from this, it is that you can't trust anyone, even if you have known them for over 20 years. Some just betray you sooner than others.

Hi NB,<P>Deep down I'm a romantic fool too. I miss my ex very, very much. Even with all the *rap I went through. My problem is that I can't imagine ever "falling" for that again. To be truly romantic, I'd have to believe in love, and I don't anymore. <P>I respect you too. I don't think you were trying to convince me to date or anything. You sound hopeful, and I guess I can say I'm a little envious. <P>I agree that it is not only men that jump into relationships quickly after a divorce. Maybe some people just aren't as affected by rejection as I am. I couldn't take another rejection/dishonesty/betrayal in my life. <P>Most people (not just men) have a really hard time with honesty, consistency, and trustworthiness. Most people don't give much of a thought to how their "needs" affect other people. The other reason I'm not dating is because I don't want to hurt anyone, a good man, with my fear and inability to trust. <P>w.g.up.h,<BR>There are books that actually recommend that men should sleep with as many women as possible after a divorce, without commitment. (Mars and Venus Starting Over) This same book recommends that women date alot of men, without having sex. Hmmm. I've got to wonder who he thinks this recovering man is supposed to be having sex with? Not only that, it is probably likely that the reason why recovering man is divorced has nothing to do with sex. It has everything to do with his inability to deal with emotional issues. The author's recommendations are very,very harmful to men, IMO, because it suggests that men focus on things that absolutely do not lead to intimacy or success in a relationship. In addition, the last thing that a recovering woman needs is to be hunted down like prey for a piece of *ss. <P>Nellie1,<BR>You and I are in the same place. Wondering, what is the use, huh? I wish I could be truly happy with my choice to stay single. Right now, it is more of a choice between two not so good alternatives. To me, the only thing worse than staying single is getting re-married, trusting, and getting left again.<P>Fact is, I yearn for the innocence I lost. I think about you quite often. When I read one of your posts, I know that I'm not alone with this feeling.<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited May 01, 2000).]

To Everyone:<P>I think that we all pretty much feel the same way!!<P>I only pray that God will help guide me through this........ <P>Maybe someday he will give to me someone that is as strong as I am,and "live happily ever after"...... <P>Well, a girl can dream!... <P>I will be thinking of all of you!.....<P>Gina

I don't like men bashing either, but most men I know have been from some other planet. I have been accused of everything by my H,but starting WWII, yet I am not out at clubs on weekends...my H is. He is out with a friend of his and his girlfriend...the friend is married. I am home taking care of the children. I had an EA; not a good thing since the person who I got emotionally involved with turned out to be a major jerk as well. The convent is looking more and more attractive as time goes on. My H hasn't even been served yet and he's talking about getting married again. I don't get it. <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nellie1:<BR><B>I don't think there is any way to tell the "good guys" from the jerks. If there is one thing that I have learned from this, it is that you can't trust anyone, even if you have known them for over 20 years. Some just betray you sooner than others.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The best way to tell the good guys from the bad guys is by the relationship between the S parents. I have a hard time talking with any ILs or W's relatives. Never could talk with them, never could have fun with them, could never do anything with them, which reminds me of why I have such a hard time with my W.<P>If your friendship can come naturally with the person's parents and relatives, there is a higher probability of success.<P>I have seen that numbers of times, both good and bad.<P>thl

WhenIFindtheTime,<P>Unfortunately I got along quite well with his relatives. I would have liked his father a lot better if he had treated my H better, but I liked his mother, and I like his uncle and just about all of his cousins. <P>But I suspect he learned his conflict avoidance behavior from his parents, especially his father. I never saw his parents argue, but then again I rarely saw them talk much either about anything other than what they would have for dinner. <P>

Gina,<P>After going to a singles class, I guess it really emphasizes how important it is to work on the one you have. I have been remembering you in my prayers.<P>May the Lord Bless You and Keep You,<BR>John

Dear John,<P>You are absolutly right!!........<P>My friend asked and I don't know what I was thinking.......I do know that I will never do that again,regardless of my marital statis!<P>It is just really hard not to think about the future when I feel like I am in such limbo! <P>Thank you for thinking of me! <P>I am hanging in there!.........<P>Gina<BR>

Gina:<P>I wanted you to know there are still some good and faithful men out there. <P>Just a few months prior to our 30th Wedding Anniversary, my wife left me (Feb 7, 1996).<P>We were separated for 4 years before I gave up. Our divorce was final March 14th ending a 33-1/2 year marriage.<P>I did not date for the first 3 years and 10 months of the separation, I continued to believe for restoration/reconciliation with my wife. I allowed the Lord to deal with all the issues in me that caused the separation, but to no avail.<P>Finally, in December, I just gave up and actually felt the Lord released me from the marriage.<P>I never thought I would be a divorce statistic (we are both ministers and were both virgins when we married back in 1966). In fact, my wife (now former wife, I hate the term 'ex') is the only woman I have ever had sex with.<P>I have heard it said that 'dating while separated is liking playing around on a slippery river bank' (you're gonna fall in).<P>I only began to date after I had given up on the marriage and knew my wife did not want to reconcile. I believe that dating, while you are only separated sends mixed signals to your spouse, especially if you are believing for eventual restoration.<P>I was alone for almost 4 years and only by the grace of God did I make it through.<P>I still believe it was God's will to restore my marriage of 33-1/3 years, 4 beautiful children etc....but it wasn't my wife's will.<BR>And God won't cross another person's will.<P>I have too much love in me to not marry again and I am asking the Lord to give me a 2d chance to be the husband/man of God I should have been all those years.<P>I am very hard on men....in fact; most men are jerks or wimps! However, most of them don't wake up until it's TOO LATE! <P>I wish you the best...<P>[censored] from Texas<BR>

I hope this isn't too horribly depressing...<P>Yes, there are nice guys out there, but I would expect they would be harder to find among those who are divorced. Not impossible, just hard to find. My experience is that most divorces happen for a reason. Usually it is the fault of both parties, but this means that very few divorced men are blameless, or even good marriage material. <P>I expect that many (not all) of the nice guys are still working on their first marriages. <P>I expect that the married ones are reluctant to get involved, even in friendship, with a divorced or separated woman. This would add to your difficulties in finding friendship and support. <P>Maybe you want to drop out of the support group. <P>I know this is discouraging, and I don't have much by way of good advice. But I wouldn't be surprised if men in a divorce support group are not the cream of the marriage crop, if you get my drift.<P>Regards,<BR>rs0522

I guess my take is that hey, I am divorced, I know I did things in my marriage that were not the best, but people can learn from their mistakes and grow. <BR>The men you may meet in a divorce support group could be going through a lot of what you are. They can be a great source of help. And I believe that most of us will want another marriage someday. Even though we may have failed, we want that connection with someone and may be better equipped this time around. <P>------------------<BR>Susan