My H wants to go ahead and get the D. He has swayed back and forth the whole month. I have cried, I have done everything but I have to face the fact that we are getting a D.<P>I asked him today how he would like our relationship to be with each other after the D. He said he wants it to be good. He wants to do things as a family, do things with me as in dateing, still help around the house. He said he needs closure on this marriage to begin again. He needs his freedom to figure out who he is.<P>He thinks that he will want to do all kinds of things with me after this is over. We can start again fresh.<P>But he needs his freedom to do this. He is still in love with the O/W, though she has dumped him and is moving very far away (about 10 states) in June. I know that he needs time to get over her.<P>He says he will be here for us financially, he will be a better father and keep up the visitation ect. He said who knows we may look at new houses next year together. He said anything is possible. He also that there is no way that he was going to go out and get married to anyone else right now.<P>What do you believe? I want to do this D and leave the door open for reconsiliation. Maybe we need to date and start again on a different level. I don't know.<P>But am I in fantasy land, and just believing this stuff.....do you think he is just feeding me lines?<P>Does a couple need complete closure such as a D to start again on a new level. To fall in love again, but have the space needed to figure out who they are. (As you can tell my H is in a MLC)<P>Do I put my life on hold and wait for him to date me? I have made plans and will start college again this summer. I am going ahead with all of that. I am not ready to start a new relationship with anyone.......but miss companionship.<P>My therapist says that the one that leaves usually wakes up in a year or two and wants their old life back. But in most cases the other S has moved on and does not want to deal with the issues to start over.<P>I still love him.....he has broke my heart.....but we still have 3 precious gifts together our children.<P>How are you guys feeling on all this? Would you take your S back in time. Would you keep that hope, or just make it final, cut and dry?<P>There is life after D, right? I guess I am just scared too.<P>Thanks

My W and I are about to separate (she had the affair but I get to leave). She says she needs space and time to think, clear her head, and decide what she wants to do. Our counselor (we see him individually too) has supported our separation and has also said to me that sometimes a D is necessary to close out the old relationship and begin anew but warned of the same thing. By the time the wayward spouse comes around the other has often already moved on. Particularly, if the "dumped" spouse is male (my case, not yours).<P>If he wants to remain active in the family, continue seeing you, etc, it sounds like a D may be a little excessive. There is a book named "Rebuilding When Your Relationship Ends" by Dr Bruce Fisher and Robert Alberti. In the back is a section on a "Healing Separation". It's bascially an agreement between the two of you regarding separation, visitation, finances, etc, and is "billed" as an alternative to divorce. It may give your H the freedom he needs to decide and you some measure of security during this. If you do go through with the D, it covers steps you can take to rebuild yourself (not your realtionship).<P>Best of luck and I'll pray for you.<BR>

Gonnatry,<P>Sort of similar to my situation, wife in BIG MLC, fell in with a lot of coworkers who have an unhealthy respect for marriage, who are marginally educated, and work day to day.<BR>Wife says whe wants a D, but has done nothing towards it as far as filing, etc.<P>Do you have kids? If so I would like to know how youplan to handle this as you have to leave and look like the deserting on?<P>any insights would be appreciative. I am hoping to get slightly more than the standard father visitation, but we will see.<P>thl<BR>

Thanks so much for your reply. This is going to be so hard to let him go. We have been married for 19 years. We have 3 kids ranging from 18 to 12.<P>I feel a D is radical also if he wants to be so involved with us. But he is a mess, shaking ect, and still has feelings for the O/W. He just wants his freedom.<P>My SIL says just give it to him. She keeps telling me love will find me again. It is like were is my pride. I deserve some one to love me.<P>But it still goes back to I want my family together again and I do love him. Maybe I need a D to fully forgive him. Maybe I have been holding all my resentment in and have not really dealt with the true pain of betrayal.<P>What do you guys make of that, and how do you feel?

m3k,<P>I wanted to wait to answer your post, but didn't have much time yesterday. Anyway here it goes.... <P>First of all if there is any possibility of avoiding him moving out, I would suggest that you do that. Any kind of separation makes a Plan A less efficient, and there is a real chance that the <I>Out of eye, out of mind</I> syndrome will hit your H. And ultimately it will be you and the kids that will be hurt the most by a separation.<P>Second protect yourself, hope that your H will stay home and come to his senses, but prepare for the worst. A MLC coupled with an OP addiction, doesn't make for a trustworthy person. So if he does move out, find out what your rights are by contacting a lawyer,<BR>see the section <B>Legal Support</B> in NSR's<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000013.html" TARGET=_blank>Notable Posts/Threads</A>. It is important for you and the kids not to be caught on the wrong foot, if he decides to move out and forget all of his nice words about being there for you financially etc.<P>And no you don't need a divorce to get closure, and neither does your H, unless he are preparing to continue an affair with less guilt or even remarry... I think it's time<BR>for some concentrated Plan A effort, it's not easy and it's not fair, but it's your best bet if you want your H back.<P>I will pray for the two of you.<p>[This message has been edited by SadMan (edited April 30, 2000).]

my3kids,<P>I am in a somewhat similar situation. We live in SW MO, have been married for almost 24 years (May 23) and have three children ranging from 19 1/2 - 14. My wife claimed there was no OM involved.<P>The counselor she chose for us encouraged her to file for a divorce as a way of making herself happy and gaining a clean new start in life. He said a marriage was no different than a small business, if it had problems you just dissolved it and started a new one.<P>My wife gave me the same line about needing the divorce to bring some closure and space, claiming she would start "dating" me as soon as the divorce is final. I was served papers the second week in December. Our two older children chose to leave also, rather than be in the house with their mother and some of the things being done there. I left the house and have had no direct contact with my wife since then by her choice.<P>My guess is that this whole idea of a "clean re-start" through a divorce without working out the problems is a part of the fantasy they are going through. There seems to be a complete unwillingness to accept responsibility for, or acknowledge the consequences of, choices and actions taken.<P>The whole divorce and start-over dating again idea seems to be a way of filing "marriage bankruptcy" or something. I believe that somehow it's supposed to magically "erase" the problems in the relationship. You do not need a divorce to be able to forgive, you just have to be willing to do it.<P>If I remember, nowhere in Dr. Harley's material have I seen him suggest that a divorce was a good way of working out the problems in most marriages.<P>For most of the people I have known that divorced, had reality catch up to them, and re-married, it happened in the 6-18 month range somewhere.<P>As far as waiting for him to come back to your marriage, that is a decision only you can make. Do not let anyone else make it for you, it is too important.<P>It does not require putting your entire life on hold while waiting, but making a commitment to not become involved in a relationship with someone other than your husband or wife. Use the time for personal and spiritual healing, growth and education.<P>In my situation, almost my entire family and friends, including our two older children said I should not look back and be glad I was getting out of the marriage. The only hint of encouragement I have had was from my mother(who my wife hates with a passion).<P>She quietly told me one day when we were alone how, after she chose to separate from my father for about 1 1/2-2 years, she realized that it was herself that she was unhappy with. Her problems were still there even though my father was not. She explained how grateful she had been then that he was still around waiting for her, rather than moving on to another relationship. This was about 26 years ago and they are still together. <P>For me, personally, it did not take me long to come to the decision to stand for our marriage and family to be restored. I am very new to this and still have much to learn, but in 24 years I have never seen another woman I would rather be with, and have no desire to go looking. It is not easy, and many that start are unable to continue after a time, but the restored marriages are worth the effort.<P>I have a good friend whose wife stood for their marriage for around 1 year after he divorced her and became engaged to another woman. They didn't call it that back twenty-some years ago, but that's what she did. He called off the engagment and re-married his wife.<P>If you are interested in a Christian viewpoint offering support and encouragement for this there are several good locations on the internet. If you ask, I will post some of the web addresses for you.<P>RonS

My ex-H suggested the same thing. Since I was the betrayer, I wasn't in a position to disagree. I did tell him that I did not want a divorce under any circumstances, and that all of my efforts towards our relationship would most likely end if he divorced me. I think my ex-H had started feeling guilty about the way he was treating me. He cheated on me after my confession and dated, in addition to verbal abuse that was a constant problem in our entire marriage. I think he wanted a divorce because he was finally starting to come to terms with the things he had done to hurt our marriage too, and didn't want to face that. <P>In your case, I see a divorce as an additional betrayal. He had an affair, and now is too chicken to stay the course. <P>Getting a divorce will allow your H to date others too, without feeling any guilt.<P>He has called me off and on for the past year. The last time I talked to him, he wanted me to leave him my forwarding address after I moved, but I told him I could not do that. I'm not surprised that he might be attracted to me again now that I'm back on my feet. What I haven't forgotten is that I was forced to do so without him, and that he filed for divorce at the worst point in my life, which was a week after my mom was diagnosed with cancer. Even though I was the one who cheated, I confessed and stood by him and did everything in my power to restore our marriage. <P>I will always love him, though. There is a part of me who will always wish we were together, but I refuse to be the only one to take the risks or extend myself.

Thank you all for responding!<P>Sadman, My H has been our of the house for almost 7 months. He moved out not soon after discovery. He has been living with his folks, but his job has required him to travel and be gone for weeks at a time, so basically he has lived in a hotel for most of the time.<P>I have tried the plan A and plan B. I had to do no contact around Christmas because he was just hurting me too much. <P>He came home in Feb for almost the whole month, but started his depression, shaking ect again. When he left he went out of town for his job. The Job should be done with out of town travel next week.<P>He cannot buy a condo because I put a restraining order on him, and I filed for D in Jan for custody reasons, (he was going to file and take son). We have put the D on hold 3 different times.<P>It is like when the O/W treats him bad, he runs to me, but when she treats him good, he runs away from me.<P>She is moving in 5 weeks........<P>Financially he has been great the whole time (except a little at christmas). But I would probably have more money from him with a D. I have been a stay at home, school volunteer mom for years. I have decided to get my teaching degree. But it will take 3 or so years.<P>I have to honest and say he is better with me and kids when he is away. When he is at home he is a mess. He needs time to deal with every thing I believe. I would rather seperate and let him have his own place to live and not D for a while, but he wants the closure.<P>I wonder if I need the time alone to heal my wounds and wonder if I really want him back. (though I feel in my heart that I do)<P>Ron S<BR>I have visited a couple of sites that stands for their marriage even after D. I do believe that I will do the same thing. Do a lot of praying but moving ahead with me as an individual.<P>My H's O/W really does not want my H. She used him to get our of her own marriage. My H even told me that. But he still has feelings for her. He told me I have made great changes in myself, but he cannot appreciate them at this time, I feel because he still cares for her.<P>I do not think we have a chance until she is moved and gone. Until then, we are floundering around. I am hopeing that reality will hit him then, visitation ect, child support, mantenince. He will have less money and more responsibility when this is over. <P>He has not done regular vistitation because he is living at his folks....no excuse in my book.<P>I still believe in this marriage. It was built on love, and there is still a lot of caring there. But then too, I miss companionship, and doing something with an adult. All my friends are married. I am like a third wheel.<P>But I know that I have to work on me, and start being happy, and go forward.<P>Thanks so ,much all of you who has replied, I will pray for us all!

The Student<P>Thanks you for replying...I have always appreciated your view point on your post.<P>I have though about the fact that he can date other women and not feel quilty. It was so hard to get over that he actually had PA, that I do not know how I will take him dateing other women.<P>My therapist said it will be hard, but I can date other men also. I am sorry, I am not up to that. But I am lonely. My kids are older and have very active lives. I did have a date on Friday night, I went to the movie with my son and his friend : o ), my son even drove us, but I paid for the tickets.<P>I wonder too if this is just a cop out for my H because he cannot deal with real life, and what he did. I told him he cannot love me until he gets over her. I do not know rather to stall this D, or go ahead when I know that financially he is in agreement with about everything I want. I will walk away with the house and several thousands in stock and enough money a month not to work for about 4 years. ( I will use this time to substitute teach and get my teaching certificate)<P>He has waffled back and forth on this D thing for 2 months. Each time leaving and saying he cannot do it. The more I push for counseling the more I push him away. The more I say I love you enough to let you go and find yourself, the more he wants to come back to me.......<P>So it seems the only way to get him back is to let him go. I wish I knew for sure.<P>I too will always love my H. We have 3 great kids and will always be connected.<BR>

I'm having a really hard time understanding why my betraying spouse, who says that he "loves" the OW and "loves" me but just not "in love" with me so we need to get a D so he can figure out his relationship with OW. BUT wants us to remain friends. I'm sorry but how do you remain friends when you have been betrayed so badly and are hurt & angry. We don't have any kids and we have not been married that long so it would be a simple divorse. I'm trying to respect myself and move on but I just can't seem to do it.

bringing this to the top

Good question! I just found this site - home from work today after minor accident. My husband got a nofault divorce from me 18 mths ago after 32 yrs. of marriage. He left home during a MLC, but says there never was a OW. He tells me he can justify his divorce to God, but doesn't care to discuss it with me as it is too painful for him. I have no idea why he divorced me. Beginning about 6 mths before the final hearing, he began calling me and taking me out, but he still went through with his divorce. He was the one who cried entire 2 hrs of final hearing so that even the judge asked him if he didn't want to postpone his final decision. I said I don't want a divorce and he said that he just wanted to get it over with. He cried in my arms afterwards and then took me to lunch. He has since gotten a great job, but travels a lot. We talk often and see each other every Sunday. He has bought me some lovely gifts including this computer. Every Sunday he takes me someplace really nice for dinner- usually some place new. He tells me that I have changed so much. We have lots of fun. But the walls still exist that he has put around himself. He limits physical contact to a few hugs and kisses. I was glad when he first left because his MLC was the pits. 2 years of his being at health club half the day, letting his business slide, not contributing money to pay bills, and either not speaking to me for weeks or telling me that I had ruined his life. Shortly after he left, God showed me that I was not allowed to divorce my husband. I became a "stander" for my covenant of marriage. We had to sell our home and everything in it to pay debts. But out of everything I lost, my lost husband is the most important. <P>So is divorce only way to begin again? Gosh, no. It really is the worst way. I have gone through all kinds of tears and pain and some days I feel that I can't ever function again. My grown kids still are furious with their dad and puzzled at my desire to remarry. In hindsight, I probably should have figured it was a major MLC, but I had no idea. I wish I had tried harder to be more considerate of his personal anguish. I wish we had learned how to communicate better from a good counselor. I just don't see that divorce made anything better between us. We may be enjoying our time together, but we are not together. Divorce says at least one of us did not want to be committed to the other and abandonment was the choice. I know that God can heal our marriage, but only my husband can make a choice to right the wrong he has done. If he prefers to remain a single man, he has that choice of free will. My prayers are with you.

I read Ron's response with interest. He has really hit the nail on the head. As a stander for my convenant of marriage, it has not been easy. You do have to commit all effort to focusing on what God wants you to do, not on what you want your spouse to do. It can be a very lonely stand. Especially when your kids think you are nuts to want their Dad back. Ron, could you email me the material you mentioned. Some days I find myself praying very hard to perserve in my stand, more so when it is so hard to find others to support it. Thanks. Stander

Thank you so much for responding,<P>slp. I do not know how I am going to handle being friends with him and dateing him, on a single level. He came and seen me on Monday and huged and kissed me goodbye. He was doing his shaking thing again.<P>He emailed me tonight and wants to stop by and see me tomorrow but I am working, though he may still stop by on his way through town. He also wants to take us all out for dinner on Friday night as a family. Then on Saturday he is coming over to fixed our fence (a privacy fence we just put in ourselves last summer) so the new puppy he bought us wont get out of the back yard.<P>Now does this sound like a man who wants a D?<P>I don't know........<P>I just don't know how I will react to him on a single level. I do not want to be used for sex either.<P>Stander<BR>Here are the sight you wanted to check out<BR> <A HREF="http://www.restorem.org" TARGET=_blank>www.restorem.org</A> <A HREF="http://www.restoreministries.org" TARGET=_blank>www.restoreministries.org</A> <P>I am so sorry for your marriage ending after so long. 18 months and you are still dateing. Has he mentioned getting back together and remarriage at all?<BR>How do you handle this.<P>I will tell you that I know about 5 people that are D'ed and all of their H wanted to come back. One took 4 to 5 years later, and they are working on it. Another is thinking about it, the others do not want their H's back. <P>I want to stand for my marrige too, and I plan to plan A all the way. But there comes to a point I cannot keep hope that we will get back together. I wonder too how my kids will feel. My oldest Daughter said something about dinner this friday and wanted to know if he was nuts or something. He wants us and then does not want us. This just shows how confused he is.<P>I keep thinking though that this is a big cop out on his part. He needs to deal with his shaking and let us work on it together......but as long as there are feelings for the O/W it will be hard. We will see what happens when she moves.<BR>