Apparently my H and I went through our marriage in parallel universes. I feel like I have been tried and convicted for having thoughts and feelings that existed only in his mind. Among other things, he has said that I tried to brainwash the kids against his religious beliefs - yet it turned out that none of them had a clue what his religious beliefs were, and most of them had no clue what mine were either. Last night he said that he had always felt that I cared about the dogs more than him or the kids - and try as I might, I can not think of anything I could have done or said that could possibly have led him to think that. The kids certainly have no idea what he is talking about. Shortly before I left, it became obvious that if he could interpret what I said in more than one way, he would invariably interpret it in the most negative way possible. But apparently he was doing that our entire marriage. Yet he never mentioned any of these issues. Who knows what else I have done or said that was only done or said in his mind. <P>This is the major reason why I have not learned anything from this experience except that you can't trust anyone. I could not expect to do a better job or meeting his or anyone else's needs in the future because I have no idea what I didn't meet and why. Apparently I committed LB's by saying and doing things that I never said or did. <P>Sometimes I think he was trying to make our marriage fail, that he was trying to convince himself that I did not love him enough, no matter how much I showed him that I did. I don't know what more I could have done. It would have been impossible to meet his needs if he wouldn't let me. <P>I think all this marriage builders stuff is completely useless, at least in my case. He spent 25 years trying to prove to himself that I didn't love him enough. I don't know why he wanted to believe that but that is what he wanted to believe, and in general, once he decides that X is true, nothing, not even facts, will dissuade him. He manages to forget or misinterpret any facts that don't fit in with his beliefs. <P>There is no hope. There never was any hope. I wish someone had told me when I was young that it was common for men to lie and lie and lie for a quarter of a century, to pretend that they love you, that nothing I could do would be good enough for him.<P>Yes I know that he has been depressed all his adult life. I know that he was deeply affected by his father's indifference toward him and by the fact that his first wife deserted him after only two months. But what difference does it make - he is not the one who is suffering. Somehow the OW has apparently convinced him that she loves him, and he is willing to do anything, even rarely see hin kids, to keep her happy. I have my doubts that that can last indefinitely - but then again, if he has decided that she loves him, nothing, not even facts, will dissuade him. But if he ever changes his mind, he will probably change it completely. He will not just realize that she is merely human, with assorted failings, but he will decide that she is completely and thoroughly bad. <P>But I CAN NOT CO-PARENT with this man. He avoids all communication that he doesn't deem absolutely necessary, so things are constantly happening that could easily have been avoided. When I didn't answer an email that he had sent about the kids, he assumed that I didn't want to, rather than that the email had been lost in cyberspace as was actually the case. That caused quite a bit of confusion and inconvenience. Yet he told me that he assumed I wasn't answering his email because I sometimes did not - I don't remember ever not answering any of his emails that even remotely required an answer. <P>I can't do this. I can't coparent with someone who wants to hate me so much that he will invent excuses to do.

Nellie,<P>My x is like this too now, she never was before. She never remembers anything I have told or asked her. She says she has told me things that she hasn't.<P>I no longer even engage her in these arguements of you said, I said, as there is no way to resolve the conflict. I now try to treat her like I treat the kids when I have something important to them. I repeat myself and try to make sure it registers with them/her.<P>I know you are hurting, but you will have to learn to trust people again. I try not to compare my x to other women as I know everyone isn't the same.<P>I think the rewriting of history is agaiin their attempt to justiy what they have done or are doing.<P>It sounds like you are having alot of interaction with your H. If you are not working on the marriage then why so much contact?<P>The only time I contact my x is if I want something or she needs to yelled at. I haven't talked to my x since last Wed nite. and only plan to because she agreed to pay half for a sports camp for our d, at least she agreed a couple weeks ago anyhow.<P>If she wants to know about the kids, then it is up to her as she was the one that wanted out. I do not call her and give her updates and We don't sit by the phone waiting for her to call. <P>I do mail/give her the kids sports schedules but no longer give her the kids school stuff. I quit this because I used to leave them out and she never looked at them. I don't think she even looked at their report cards this past period, the kids told her but she didn't look at them.<P>Bob

Bob,<P>I see him for a couple minutes a week, when he picks up or drops off the kids. Other than that my only communication with him is by email, which is not terribly frequent. I am not allowed to call him at the OW's house even for emergencies, as she screens his calls. We have six kids. If we were to spend 5 minutes a week discussing issues related to each one, that would still be half an hour a week. We actually spend a total of maybe 5 minutes a week.

Dear Nellie:<P>Wow...there once was a time that my husband was exactly the same way. It began around January 1998 when he bagan drinking again after 17 years of sobriety. It lasted until June 1999 and it has taken all this time for him to come full circle back to where he was before he took that first drink.<P>He has been diagnosed as bipolar when he had his suicide attempt in January of this year, and, looking back on it, I can remember a few times throughout the 17 years while sober he did occsionally "get it all wrong" and perceive things inaccurately to the way things really are. But, then, I was able to talk him through it logically. We had a lot of "Oh, yeah, I see-that makes sense" stuff going on for all those years.<P>I would LOVE to see you print up this post of yours along with your many other postings and put it in a binder and mail it off to OW and husband for them to peruse.<P>If for no other reason, you will feel cleansed and lightened, regardless of what their perceptions are of your thoughts. Hell, they can use it to wallpaper the bathroom for all it matters. The point is, the curiousity will be too much, they will read it, and you may get some satisfaction out of having had your say.<P>You have posted so many heartwrenching and bone deep, insightful truths. It can only give you some peace to know that he has read your feelings. <P>There is so much power in the printed word, Nellie. I only truly got through to my spouse when I wrote "My Once In A Lifetime" thread to my spouse on the forum last May, printed it up and left it for him on the diningroom table, then took off for the weekend. At that point I had absolutely nothing to loose. <BR>Pow. He was bowled over. EVERYTHING changed from that point on; he said my posting hit him like a ton of bricks. We were onto recovery. <BR>He said reading it over and over again throughout then weekend made him realize what he had done and what he was loosing and that this was our last chance. He even said it was strange that I had said many of these things to him verbally and they just would not penetrate. But that when he saw it in print and was able to reread the post, it had such an impact, everything changed within him.<P>Sometimes when they won't talk to you, or hear what you are saying, they can read it and reread it, as in my husband's case, and finally "get it".<P>Just a suggestion that worked for me. I know this might not be anything that appeals to you, but, even if it didn't make any difference, he would know what you think, how you REALLY think, how you feel and how it has effected the kids.<P>You sound like such an intellegent and intensely passionate woman. And you were shocked, surprised, and sucker punched by what happened to you, so quickly and without warning. It happened to me the same way. I truly know how you feel. The indignation, the stunning realization that you invested so much into what now seems to be a lie, the frustration at getting such a huge bum rap and to be perceived as to be something you are not, having your spouse get it all wrong and stay cemented into bogus thinking. It's too much. It's like some surrealistic grotesque nightmare and you wonder if you'll ever wake from it. You know you will surely never, ever be the same. <BR>The lightheartedness and confidence ebbs away, and you had nothing to do with it...just a victim in some ridiculous practical joke.<P>I have followed your posts over the past few months but I was lurking until recently. I wanted to talk to you anyway and tell you how much I appreciate your postings and that you are in my prayers.<P>Catnip =^^=<BR>

catnip,<P>Thank you for your post. It is like being in the middle of a surrealistic nightmare. One of the strange aspects of this is that I have not had any nightmares about him and/or the OW. Every time I dream about him, which is quite frequently, the dream is pleasant. Over and over I dreamed that he came home. Then I would wake up and be plunged back into the nightmare. <P>I wonder if he would read anything I wrote. When he first left he would talk to me on the phone, and I could send email to him. That was mostly pre-discovery, though. Now he does not want me to talk to him or send him email about anything at all except the kids, not even something as innocuous as where he could buy something he had been looking for. I am also not sure the OW would let him read it, at least if she saw it first.<P>

Nellie1<P>I feel for you also, as catnip put the situation into perfect perspective.<P>You were suckerpunched, and it is a grotesque nightmare. Most of all, I feel for your kids, having lost a parent to a crazy mental illness. Its like he is in the later stages of alzeihmer's disease, not remembering who you were, and what you had together.<P>Although I can't remember how long he has been gone, please find a reasonable amount of time for yourself to come to terms with it, and then begin to rebuild a new life for yourself. I hope you don't make the same mistake as one of my friend's brothers, who spent 10 years of wasted emotional energy trying to regain his wife after she divorced him.<P>May peace be with you.<P>thl

Nellie:<P>It doesn't matter whether or not he WANTS to hear from you, talk to you, or read what you wrote. The point is, is that he WILL probably read it...the curiousity would be too much. You can even attach a note that these things were posted on the forum. That way he'll know that others have read it, too. A real guarantee that he won't be able to help himself and would probably read it all. He'll want to see what you said about him.<P>To keep the OW from getting the "journal" first and keeping it from him, send it to his office.<P>What is the time line on this one-sided separation anyway? Isn't it bizarre when it is one person who's actions dictate how things are going to be and you have absolutely nothing to say about it? That is the one thing that really made me nuts when I was going through it. Here my husband arbitrarily decides he no longer wants to be in the marriage without consulting me or telling me beforehand that we had any problems...and that after all my devotion to him for nearly two decades meant nothing and I could be dismissed like I was nothing more than someone he had dated for a couple weeks. It was too quick and I couldn't accept it. <BR>That's when I decided I had nothing to loose and I could say to him and do whatever I wanted and it didn't matter his reaction, as long as I got my say was the beginning of my healing-and prepared me to let go. <BR>That's when he wanted to come back and stay in the marriage. The printed posting he read snapped him out of withdrawal. <BR>It certainly wasn't the end of our problems, but at least we were working on them together.<P>Prayers<P>Catnip =^^=

WhenIfindtheTime,<P>Someone actually suggested to me that he might have Alzheimer's. All I know is that he hasn't been the same person since we had to give up farming, and then the last time I saw him animated was a couple of weeks before my nephew was murdered. I am convinced the murder was a precipitating factor - perhaps because of his overwhelming fear of loss/abandonment. The horror of the loss of a child is something any parent could identify with. Then our eldest went off to college and the affair started almost immediately. <P>catnip,<P>I wonder if he would read it. Sometimes I think he would just trash it, in typical conflict avoider style. I wish I knew. <P>

Nellie: I have been lurking around and have thought about what you wrote, and I believe no-one could "fake" a good marriage for 20 or more years.<P>Something precipitated the descent into this bizarre underworld of lies, deceit, aberrant behaviour, and it was not the OW alone, at least in my H's case.<P>The crisis, depression or whatever due to unfinished personal business at dealing with stressful and/or traumatic life events is often the catalyst which pushes these people to choose another persona, sort of like Jeckyll and Hyde I think.<P>The parallel universe never really existed until this metamorphosis of priorities/personality. No matter what he states, your H was there for you and all 6 kids in the best way he knew how(we are all imperfect) but from your posts he had not lost touch with these values totally until he found OW. <P>It seems that they ( our H's and RWD's wife) are and will be searching for something alternate to make them happy for a very long time and the chances are that no matter what, I doubt they will find true personal happiness and are enraged at the former spouse no matter what. They will take it out in the way they best know how, especially as they know exactly how to get to us. <P>With your H it is upfront disrespect and anger and now to see your children in pairs.. he knows upsets you, so has used this...maybe at urging of ow, BUT HE did not put his own children's needs first and this is who he is now. Expect that he will try to hurt you, know your vulnerable points where he is concerned because this is how he will continually push...and it is how he interacts and treats the children now.<P>It is the loss of control in their own lives and the seemingly "in your face" control you show over your own life (as you have planned A'ed him) that has enraged him. How can he feel good about himself as his life spirals out of control, through no fault of your's (or even his), it just is, and he bitterly resents that you have been able to seemingly hold your life together (outwardly) for the world to see.<P>So, how to CO-PARENT? Do not. I know that you are supposed to but he is supposed to behave in a certain way towards you and your children as well and he has not.<P>While I do not advise actively preventing him from co-parenting, I would advise a passive approach. Do not go out of your way to enable this. Do not e-mail him about issues with the kids, let him come to you or the schools for this....do not ask his advice , but let him seek to give it, do not appraise him about anything to do with your or the children's lives, but let them tell him (older one's) and let him ask you about the younger ones.<P>Nellie, I know this sounds harsh, but I took this route when H refused to have contact with me since July of last year...he is not interested in the "responsibility" of raising kids, but wants the "respectability" of this ...of course I am blamed and denigrated in the lawyer's letters and briefs and motions, but I know that I have done the right thing for my children and myself and there is no way he can use these lies about what he alledges I have done to him...his accusations are embedded in his fantasy life as opposed to the reality of day to day life. Let your H deal with this rather than you exhaust yourself in having to try to do what he believes he is entitled to. You do not have to , and I know this would have detroyed me had I chosen to enable his participation in the daily business of our lives...as even this would have been used against me and he would have done what your H did...make every decision a battleground and the kids would have suffered even more due to this "parenting".<P>Look after yourself, Nellie, your children need the loving home, stability and mothering which you give them unconditionally.<P>

Willbok,<P>You've hit the nail on the head in my x's case. In talking to a minister my x counseled with briefly, he said the same thing. She is looking for something/someone to make her happy. She even told me after discovery that she had tried Christianity, marriage and children to make her happy and that it hadn't worked. But om seemed like he was everything she was searching for so she had to go off with him to see how it would turn out.<P>As for me, I turned into something that had made her unhappy all these years and now was in her way preventing her obtaining her happiness, so I guess thats why she shows me bitterness and anger.<P>I guess I'm feeling somewhat sorry for her as I see no difference in what she is doing now as what she was doing during our marriage. She stopped by today with all her fancy diamonds on. I only bought her gold and gave her some diamonds from my family. SHe had be after me the last couple years to have her engagement ring redone and I was bulking because I felt like it was something special that I had bought and she had picked out and suddenly it wasn't good enough. That felt like a slap to the face.<P>She bought a dog and took in a stray cat. She bought a dog last year without discussing it with me and I was furious. She said she got a dog so that she had something that would love her all the time. So why doe she need a dog now?<P>So it seems she is still searching. Right now om can supply her with fancy jewelry, but how long can that last? I could never remember what she had. What will happen when the "newness" of their relationship wears off. Now that summers here, om will be working on his car and now that she is working almost fulltime, she won't be able to run off and have fun like she did last summer. Will om want to take my kids in his car and go on road trips with my x like they did last summer? Not unless she starts forgetting about the kids. So it will be interesting to see how things pan out now.<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger