Not sure what kind of response I will get from this one...but here goes anyway...<P>I am involved emotionally with a married woman via the internet. I too am married with kids. (19 years of marriage) There was one brief visit with this "friend" I met...(long story) but even after confessing to our spouses back in Jan. about the meeting, and making an attempt to break off all contact, we still continue now to be in touch. Without adding insult to injury which I am sure many of you have felt, I need to know this...perhaps from someone who did "break their vows" and strayed...<P>Did your original "resolve" to not leave your spouse/family just weaken over a period of time...until you finally allowed your mind and convictions to swing the other way and begin looking for a way out of your marriage?<P>I do not justify what I am doing...but never in my life have I been in such a strong emotional (addictive for sure) pull with another person. I just would have never guessed I would have ended up in such a place. I'm not looking for sympathy...just some insight here...Both my "friend" and myself know without a doubt that we can have no future together if we try to "make" it happen. The outcome would be so painfully destructive. We don't even entertain the thought of moving in that direction. We just seem so weak and defeated in trying to move in the other direction because of the very strong feelings we have for each other.<P>I have wondered lately if that "resolve" to not leave will begin to dissolve and that we will come to the place to doing what we said we would never do. <P>Anyone out there been down this path and able to offer insight? <P>I feeled compelled to apologize to all who have been "betrayed" and hurt...by a weak spouse like me. I never planned on being in this place...like I am sure many of you did not either. <P>Thank you for any response...

Hi, I'm not a betrayer, but I'm wondering why you think that this OW is so great? Why are you spending so much time on the internet e-mailing her? Why not take that energy & time and re-direct it to your wife.<P>It's no wonder that your lovebank for your wife is depleting. You aren't depositing enough energy, committment and love into hers.<P>Cut off ALL contact with this OW. If your wife doesn't already know, et your wife know what is going on and that you still have been in contact with this OW. It isn't fair for your wife to be sticking around while you remain attached to this OW. Your wife deserves better than that.<P>As far as your question goes, my H doesn't seem to miss the OW. His affair was brief (only 6 weeks), but his mind was messed up with alcohol too. Sorry that I can't contribute any advice as far as your question goes.<P>I can tell, from reading your Post, that you know what you need to do. Give your marriage the chance that it deserves. Cut off ALL contact with this OW. You already are aware that there is no future with her.<P>Besides, if you were with OW, why would you want to be with this OW whom you can't trust anyway? If you look at it from this perspective, think of it in this way....If she can cheat on her husband, then you know she will cheat on you too.<P>Now, why would you want to be with a person like that??

NoMas,<P>The Great One has given us free will. Life is full of choices. I was many years ago where you are today. It felt real, smelled real, was real to me. It was not. By the time I realized it was a fantasy I had lost my family. She wouldn't take me back.<P>13 years later I am still trying to rebuild a relationship with my youngest son. <P>If you decide to stay on this path you will find it more attractive. You have crossed the line with your "friend". No contact is the only way to go. If not you may regret it for the rest of your life. I know I do. <P>Is your "friend" so important to you to give up your family? Not meant to be a speach or sermon. I wish someone would have layed it on the line for me so many years ago.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic

No Trust...<P>I wish it was as easy as that. I heard someone say not long ago that when the force of emotion meets the rational of logic, emotion will win out everytime...unless there is a plan. I don't mean this to sound flippant...and your name tells me there is much pain from what you have been through, but there is obviously someting very strong and influential working here...why else would men...fathers..husbands...throw so much away ?<P>Medic...<BR>Thank you...that is what I am needing to hear and learn....you said things will "only become more attractive". I am looking for those kind of warning signs...tryingto find my way out of this...looking for a map. <P>I have never had an addictive problem drugs and alcohol...but NO ONE can tell me this is not similiar. I understand what an addict goes through to some degree. I wish it was as easy as "just saying no"<P>

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Dear No Mas:<P>As a recovering drunk and drug addict I can honestly attest that it IS as simple as "Just say no". You measure success one day at a time, sometimes one hour at a time if needed, and before you realize it, an addict can put together a whole week, then a month, then three months, then a year, etc.<BR>What is needed is support (lots and lots of support) and a sincere change in behavior. I couldn't go to a bar and not expect to be tempted big time. Old friends (drinking buddies) had to go. New friends came into the picture; those that understood me, would support me and most importantly, hold me accountable. Is it easy? No! Is it really hard? No not really. Does it take a heck of a lot of effort, yes, at first, but it gets easier with each passing day.<P>One of the benefits of the court sending a drunk driver with a potential or very real alcohol addiction to AA is that the individual can see and hear from the other members, what the future of continued abuse/indulgence has to offer.<P>My story could mirror your wife's future. My wife started seeing this guy a year ago. They were just friends she later claimed upon my discovery. Evenutally she was staying out late til 2 or 3 am leave me and our two young boys at home. We did the counseling thing, I walked on eggshells for 4 months, pleaded with her to consider the devestation she could cause our family, she was forwarned that this fling would eventually become sexual. She denied everything and would not quit; even after coming to her senses for a brief period.<P>The week before Xmas was her birthday and rather than spending the day and evening with me and our boys, she made up some ruse about a work Xmas party to which spouses were not attending. I knew it was a lie and gathered evidence to prove it. When she finally returned home the next day, she knew she was caught again. <P>I went into Plan B (she was already sleeping at OM's apt. anyway) told her to leave (she didn't argue) and took the kids to my parents for two weeks for Xmas and New Years. To make this as short as possible, I had since lost whatever love I had left, and realized I do not want to endure the next ten years on therapy/counseling to try to recover from her affair and abandonment of our family. <P>I filed for divorce in February, she had to get a FT job, and now pay me child support. She sees the boys every Saturday for about 6 hours, can't have then sleep over (OM is shacking up there) and she will soon be evicted after two months as they can't manage money worth beans. She told me she had contemplated suicide because she misses her boys so much, yet she also left them in favor of OM. <P>She hasn't said she wants back probably because she knows I won't have her. She did say she regretted having had the affair to which I responded "You still are". <P>No Mas, I'm not saying your future will be the same but it potentially may be. Ask yourself, is the OW in your life, worth risking EVERYTHING that is important to you? The gaga feelings always fade, the thrill of the chase loses its appeal, the fantasy bubble will burst. Then the pain of the affair and the damage it causes will last for the rest of your life, your spouse's life, your children's lives, their children's lives, and all the parents, aunts, uncles, inlaws, cousins, etc. Is it worth causing that much pain for a few fleeting moments of pleasure? <P>Take care, think think think, and God Speed.

You could be my H,your story is so similar to my H's.Another simularity 19 years of marriage.AS the betrayed if you have any questions feel free.bethn

****<p>[This message has been edited by NoMas (edited May 08, 2000).]

NoMas,<P>I am a betrayed, so I don't have much advise to offer you, but i did want to respond to one of your statements.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Both my "friend" and myself know without a doubt that we can have no future together if we try to "make" it happen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The only difference between "making" it happen and <B>Letting</B> it happen is time. If you continue this relationship with OW your marriage will die of neglect.<P>You have passed the point of no return as far as regrets go. If you leave OW you will always wonder what might have happened. If you destroy your family you will always wonder if that was wise.<P>Infidelity is SERIOUS business. There are no winners. You are indeed addicted and will never be the same person you were before. I'm so sorry for you and your family, and OW too.<P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23

NoMas,<P>Ok, you've read what everyone else here has to say. And you just gave out your e-mail to another woman on this site. Umm, you are like an alcoholic and you keep walking into the bar over and over saying "just one more drink" then I can stop. <P>It is an addiction. Plain and simple. I lost everything that was important to me. I slept with the OM twice. Maybe 8 hrs of "fun", and my life is ruined. I get to start from scratch. If I had it to do over again, I would have put a gun to my head before ever cheating.

You are right student. Thank you.<P>I deleted the address and won't do that again.<P>Perhaps you can recommend a place for me to go find a gun.<P><BR>2Sad....<P>Some very sobering words. Not even sure I can disagree with you about "crossing the line". Doesn't sound very hopeful. Perhaps Student has the best advice.<p>[This message has been edited by NoMas (edited May 08, 2000).]

NoMas....I can feel for you because I was involved in exactly the same type of thing; and EA via the internet or an email romance. I can appreciate the pull you spoke of and the intense emotional longing for the OP. I am not an internet junkie or did I spend all my waking time chatting in chat rooms. I had been married 15 years, and was exhausted from trying to make the marriage work for the last 10. In my case, I had a very abusive husband. Anyway, to make a long story short, I thought I had found the love of my life. The affair went on for five months, but we never physically met face to face. My spouse found out, flipped out like a maniac, and called the OM's wife and told her. There has been absolutely no contact since February, but for me, that emotional pull is still there and I am still struggling with withdrawl. The past three months have been the most difficult in my life. My H has put me through torture, I am having trouble with my children, who my H has felt obligated to share everything with, and I am dealing with a crippling withdrawl from the OM. I try and tell myself it was a fantasy and that I didn't love this person, but it sure feels like I still do even without contact. As for the OM, I can't speak for him. I tell myself that most likely I was just something on the side to break the routine of his day. He was excellent at seducing my emotions and I honestly thought he felt what I did. Obviously not. It appears he most likely lied to me. If he had been honest with me and felt what I did, he would never have run away like he did. Apparently he did not have any withdrawl at all. The first sign of trouble, he vanished. I feel like a fool. Anyway, I don't know what to tell you. I think the condition of your own marriage and your feelings for your wife have a lot to do with how you will proceed. I think that if you truly love your wife you can get it back if you try. In my case, there wasn't any love left before the EA, so I fear that what I felt for the OM was love. I know that one thing came out of all of this, I am a stronger person. I won't tolerate emotional and verbal abuse any more, hence; the divorce. I also, know that I got involved in a dagerous game with a married man and as much as it hurt, it was for the best to sever things. The longer you two continue with this the more it is going to hurt in the end. You can't email forever; eventually you will want more and so will she and you will do it. I know that is where I was headed and like you, in the beginning had no intention of taking it further. Once the phone calls started, things spiraled out of control until we crashed. I would suggest to take a look at your marriage. Either way you go, its going to be painful; you can count on it.<P>LS<P>

NoMas,<P>I didn't mean to lead you to hopelessness - just to give you something to think about.<P>How would you feel if (work with me here!) I said you could feel the same way about your W that you do about OW? Quickly skim the following paragraph of fine print...<P>Fine Print: OK, it won't be easy, it won't happen right away, it will liekly require a great deal of compromise, baring your soul (possibly to a third part, like a counselor), and some other unpleasant stuff - nowhere as easy as becoming attached to someone new.<P>It may seem impossible from where you stand today. Indeed, if you stay in contact with OW it is impossible. The irony is that you cannot step off in either direction without tremendous risk. It is as though you are on an ice floe that has split in two between your feet. You can't stand still because the ice is splitting and moving apart. You can't lean to the right and hope to be able to leap back over to the left. You have to let go of something in order to succeed. <P>It would feel safer to keep OW in the wings while you work on your marriage, but your emotional investment would be divided. It can't work. <P>By the way, <B>thank you</B> for resisting the temptation to throw in the usual betrayer self-justifications (I've never really loved my W, she'd be better off without me, OW and I are soulmates, we are meant to be together, etc). You show a level of maturity not often displayed by betrayers. And I think you have been around the board long enough to know how hollow these sound anyway.<P>Don't wallow in hopelessness. Think it through. Be decisive. Get a good counselor. Be upfront with your W. Give her a fair chance at fighting for your marriage too. It is totally unfair for you to give up on your marriage until you have sincerely given it every chance of succeeding. It doesn't sound like you have done that yet.<P>For more insight from the betrayers side, search for Jill's posts. I think I have referred you there before in fact! Re-read them if necessary. But understand that hearing what you know is right doesn't help much in fighting an addiction. No amount of advice will help until you are ready to receive it. <P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23

NoMas, You must break contact with OW!<BR> You must break contact with OW!<BR> You must get help from a therapist;<BR> he/she can help you understand what is missing in your life. Marriage therapy will also help. NOTHING will help if you continue to have contact with the OW. I do not want to sound rude or trite; I really want you to understad for you to have any chance to save your marriage YOU MUST BREAK CONTACT WITH OW!<P> Believe me you are singing to the choir.<BR> Continued contact fools no one except you.<BR> It is deceit in your marriage and will destroy your marriage.<BR> YOU MUST BREAK CONTACT WITH OW!

Oh NoMas,<P>Geez, it's tough huh?<P>I feel for you, and understand what you're going through. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, betrayed in a marriage have no idea how it is to hang onto the fantasy that this is 'the one true love'... that is unless, like me, they have been on both sides of this thing. I know that feeling of guilt, of confusion, and of the out-and-out fear that you will make a mistake if you let the OP, or your spouse, go. <P>So, I'm certainly not gonna flame you at all since I've been there, but I am gonna tell you that in order to save yourself you have to make a decision. Neither of you, if I'm reading this right, is willing to let go of the marriages. You hang onto the marriage, and you hang onto to your lover. You can't have both. This is the stuff that nervous breakdowns are made of... <P>Best wishes to you...<BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited May 08, 2000).]

Apart from the fact that is is illegal and we risk prison, why don't more people try cocaine, heroin, and other such drugs?<P>One reason is the frightening addictive nature of these substances. One taste and you could be HOOKED. A junkie. The only escapes are death or a horrible, gut-wrenching withdrawal process that makes death seem attractive. This ALONE is enough for many people to eliminate the desire to toy with such drugs.<P>As we see from so many betrayers here, the mixture of unhappy marriage and deep friendships with people of the opposite sex is <B>just as dangerous</B>. It grabs hold of you slowly, but once it has you and you are married to one person and deeply in love with another - there is no easy way out.<P>I am a betrayed spouse, but I can empathize with you betrayers, even if I can't sympathize with you. To be honest, I'm not sure who is in a tougher spot - the betrayeds or the betrayers. <P>We have to overcome the pain of the betrayal, letting go of our resentment in order to allow the relationship to heal. You must break your own heart, and then take on the task of repairing the damage you did to someone who you only used to love. No winners here. We're all losers.<P>As I mentioned elsewhere, I think newbies who get the full force of our dire warnings are sometimes scared off by our intensity on this subject, but the consequences are SO compelling, how else could we convey it? The horror of it all is a simple truth.<P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23

NoMas,<P>I give you a lot of credit for your struggle. I agree, you really must break all contact with OW, if you want to do what is right. At this point, there is always that chance. <P>I am a betrayed myself but am here to offer you support. LIke someone said earlier, support will help steer you from that addiction.<P>My ex had a very addictive personality, so I know how it is to live with someone like that. Its not easy. <P>Cut off all communication with the OW and let your wife in, to meet your emotional needs. Don't destroy your life . The affair that destroyed my marriage, has affected not only myself, and our three daughters but about 30 other people directly in the families, that now, things can never be the same for any of us. Holidays, birthdays, you lose your friends, (not many married couples want to be involved with that newly divorced couple as single friends), you can lose your house, your children, your job (like my ex), your family, your respect, and most importantly, your wife.<P>Be strong. Take it one hour at a time, thats what I did to recover from the affair. Some days, I go back to the one hour at a time rule. YOu can do this if you REALLY want to.<P>Sending prayers, Dana<BR>