To all those who read my venting, I thank you in advance...and will reply, but this part is the hardest of the whole mess on a day to day basis, which is why I am here now...after taking dog for a walk and then going out on my own for an hour to let the steam condense!!!!<P>16 year old son who has difficulty at school has an essay due. Promised he would do it yesterday, but put it off as today is public holiday and then promised he would do it today.<BR>Got up and then told me he was going to spend <BR>afternoon with dad!(supposed to have dinner with dad tonight as per agreement and discuss with me when to see dad as he does not like it "according to set times) I hit the roof. Told him this was unacceptable and was going to call his father. Son told me if I got involved he would leave. Told him that he cannot tell me what I can and cannot do and did called his dad.<P>Dad states...wwell "I would have called you if you had been nicer to me"....H always turns it around. I have called H 4 times in last month over kids issues and never before that...just have had enough of H's manipulation of the kids and doing it his way...where I am the supposed witch.<BR> <BR>The a@@hole states "of course he must do his work",(not that H will ever take son and ensure that the work gets done when son is with him...this is "quality play time" LOL) "but son told me he was to do it yesterday...why did he not?" I told him that son never thought of spending time with dad until dad put the offer in and then son 'jumped" . I told him that since we separated in March 1999 I had stood by the fact that I was the only parent who knew what the schedules of the kids were and that is why I have tried, therapist tried and lawyer tried to get H to call me before asking the kids to do things with him outside of his scheduled time (which I have never inteferred with...not even as a means of grounding...this is put off until it is my weekend...never H)<P>H refused to understand that he does not know what is going on with kids.....<BR>I told him that it was time he started thinking about his kids as their parent and not what was in it for him! <P>Again stated "they are fine" and in anycase "does not like the professionals they see" (H saw them each once...kids have been seeing them for over a year!)I told him that if he was concerned then why did he not get professionals who he liked! The fact is my kids like who they are seeing and this is the important issue, not whether H or I like them!<P>H also told me...the kids are being affected by all my stupidity through legal issues. Not! But the are being affected by the divorce and his ridiculuous parenting etc ...DUH!<P>I did tell him that I had compartmentalized this mess into three parts...the marriage which was over (if not legally) , financially which the lawyers are dealing with and about the kids. He could not understand this....and accused me of having my emotions about the legalities spill over... I did not get into a p!ssing contest and changed the subject.<P>He also told me "why do you let son talk to you this way (son was ranting at me) and I told him...well when son spoke to H that way, H left him in parking lots for hours and then they never spoke for 3 weeks...H stated "well that was months ago" <P>He will take no responsibility for anything to do with kids In his eyes it is all my fault. How much lower can H get?????<P>Of course I did not get into many issues...I would have far too angry...but he told me that my life would be smoother if I was not so "stupid" I told him that living with 4 teens never makes life smooth...never mind about anything else...but told him that was his choice to live his life the way he chooses now.<P>Thank you again for letting me vent. Again I know that as a mother one day the kids will understand that the "fights " are not about what I want them to do for m, but what I want the kids to do for them....this is my son's "job" and he has to do it the best he can><P>I am so tired of fighting about all this especially when H intervenes to make it so much harder on the kids to do their job and I have to set limits etc.

willbok99,<P>By W and you H are 2 peas in a pod.<P>I read your story...<BR>...and the bulk of it was just like what happened when my 17 yo son came back from the weekend with his mom...<BR>...uncanny!<P>I'm praying for you...<BR>I know your situation... first hand!<P>Do vent!<P> <P>Jim

Hi willbok,<P>Ya know this may sound awful, but when I read stuff like this, I'm glad my H completely ignores our sons. <P>He has seen them one time since Feb.12th. And talked to them about 3 times. The real kicker is...he only lives 10 minutes away from us. He takes no interest in their health or education. Our 10 yr old cut his finger and required stitches. I called to tell H and he never bothered to see how K was doing. The last we heard from him was May 4th, the day before our 8 yr old's b-day. It seems that he calls around birthdays and holidays. <P>At least for now, I don't have to deal with co-parenting issues. But it doesn't help the kids at all!<P>Mitzi

This sounds just like my H. Except the incident with the parking lot -- if that isn't abuse, what is? <BR>Oh, do I feel for you, Willbok, and wish I could tell you what worked for me to change the evil one's behavior but I can't. My H. uses my older son as his pawn, too, to the point where his teacher told me today that he was not the same kid -- he is dominant, aggressive, yet holding his feelings inside. His teacher also told me that he appears to be alligning himself with his father instead of with me. Told me that children typically deal with the divorce issue easier when they can just pick a side and stick with it. It's just too draining for children to be put in the middle and bounced back and forth emotionally -- especially in cases where one partner is hell bent on destroying the reputation of the other parent in the child's eyes. So... I am putting it in God's hands -- there is no person out there who can change this monster I married. God bless our children and help all of us. From what I've heard, when these same children grow up (after losing their childhoods at the hands of a selfish parent) they finally come to see just WHO was really there for them -- and in your case it was you.

I read that the children do a lot of the time side with the parent who left, in an attempt to win them back. They often take their anger out on th parent who stayed because for one , we are here, and secondly because deep down the kid knows we can be trusted not to run out on them like the other.

It is always so difficult for the kids...I think you are doing the best you can do in a tough situation. <BR>My x seldom interferes with the day to day upbringing ( it would cramp his style of a free bird!!) but he does not take them for his reg visitation, just when it is convienent for him. I have bent over backward to be flexible, but it irritates me that he does not take them and spend time with them like he should. <BR>Sometimes you have to just step back and let it happen. The kids will see it for what it is oneday. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

For those who have the kids,<P>be fortunate that you are the ones who are providing the most support and understanding of the issues. Keep hammering away at the kids about choices, understanding goals and how to achieve them, and what giving up really means. Talk and show them what family values really are, not hedonism, but hard work and sacrifice, delayed gratification for future benefits.<P>There are some parents like myself, who can provide unconditional love and understanding, and provide support, but will not be around for the day to day stuff when it is needed because we are H's.<P>thl<P>

Your situation is sad and tragically unfair; however, speaking of delayed gratification, if you can just hold on I know your children will come to understand someday that you are the good guy -- not that you'd want them to turn against their mother, but sometimes this is what happens when the kids are finally mature enough to understand.

To all who have replied...thank you. Another sh!tty day today with H's stupidity surrounding kids...it never seems to stop and the sad part is that the "skank" enables his pathetic behaviour. <P>It would be so much easier for me if he had disappeared out of the kids lives FOR ME, but since I know this is NOT in my kids best interests and they need to have a relationship with him no matter who he has become, makes it so much harder for me, but I cannot do anything about this!<P>N.S. R.<BR>How do you remain so calm and give so much good advice...with this stuff enveloping you.<BR>Believe me this aspect of the parenting, where H is so far removed from reality and is harmful to the kids and my sanity is much worse than the ow in his life as well as the fact that I am battling him on the financial front. (fortunately we both have more than enough and he cannot control me this way!)<P>Mitzi:<BR>Thank you for your input. It is probably easier for you with H out of YOUR life at the moment, but the children have it harder I think haveing to deal with a parent who has abandoned them fully (mine has only partially...those parts that he does not want to do)<BR>Last summer when my sons had wisdom teeth removed, H was nowhere around...but as soon as they were fine, he was taking them to dinner etc! <P>Movingon:<BR>I hope your son finds a way to deal with this in a way that is better for him. My kids have moved forward in a lot of ways...but H is h2ll bent on "proving" how nice he is, therefore I have to be seen to be the witch....the kids who range in age from 19-14 do know what is up , and I am no angel....but at times I do rant at the choices their father offers them to make us all crazy. I do not delve in the past of what should be, but of the here and now when their father who has no idea of parenting (never really had much of an ideaq) offers "fantasy" which is totally age inappropriate and just plain wrong and I will not enable or allow it as it is contrary to what I can live with as their parent. I mean allowing the kids to do stupid things, not seeing dad and ow!<BR>I will hang on...no choice either, because if I do not the kids will crash as there will no parenting whatso ever. II am their mother though (LOL)<P>RWD:<BR>Been there for ALL 4 kids anger and 3 are through it for the most part...we just collide over "regular teen issues!!!! lots of laughs there too! All are scared of not having a relationship with their dad and know that they have to be nice to him...<BR>WHAT A MESS...but the kids and I have come a long way since separation last March 1999.<BR>IOt is H who has lost more and more control over his life ...and needs the kids for "respectability" and has used them so manipulatively.<P>Sue: Thanks...I have tried to allow for flexibility, but H thinks he is omnipotent...and everyone has to fit into his schedule....this is not about his needs, but what is best for the kids.<P>Now that all 4 are home, we seldom have dinner together. One son goes out on Mon night, another 2 on Wed night while d goesw on Thursday night. Real world family life...I think not. This was a family that made a point of eating dinner together!<P>When I find the time:<BR>Thank you for your input:<BR>The hardest part for the kids is that the values are now so confusing...fantasy and hedonism and instant gratification is so much NICER.... but I feel so strongly and my children are not babies that I keep on "teaching them" right from wrong.<BR>Thanks all<BR>