Well, last week I gave up on my marriage. Just had enough. So, I stopped calling him. Stopped being available to him. Stopped being mad, stopped feeling provoked, because I just didn't care. <P>Well guess what? The H is calling and wondering where I am and just being really sweet and attentive. We have had no talks about anything real. I suppose if things went there, it wouldn't be so nice and sweet.<P>The thing is, I have been wanting to see some SOMETHING from him, and now that it is happening. I just don't care. All I can see are his lies and manipulations. All I can see is that he is a serial liar and cheater that I don't want in my life. I am HAPPY without him.<P>Am I giving up too soon? Some say so. I would be the first person to say "Give it a chance" but I feel I've given all I had to give. <P>Any advice?

Popeye, I feel so bad for you! What a roller coaster. I don't know the first thing to say about your situation. I just want you to know that a post you made in another thread gave me courage to ask my H to do the EN questionnaire. <P>It was in the "why do people have affairs" thread. There was talk about clueless spouses. The betrayers seem to think "how could you be so surprised?" and the betrayed are in utter shock, disbelief and pain. You described yourself as one of the clueless (a gross exaggeration I'm sure!). Anyway, I'm still faithful to my H, but my level of commitment to the marriage is waning. After reading your post, I wondered, "would my H be shocked and surprised if I did that? How could he not see it coming?" I felt like I shouldn't allow him to remain clueless. I just wanted to say thanks for that post.<P>So...what about Popeye? I'm going to pull some words from that thread and post them here (since *I* don't have any words of wisdom )<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We don't need a man/woman to make us happy. All single people aren't unhappy. Happiness is an intrisic thing. Good stuff is worth working on. Good stuff is worth sacrificing for. Guess you just have to decide which "good stuff" is really good.<P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sound familiar? These are your words, Popeye. From what I can tell from your recent posts, the good stuff in your marriage is YOU! I hope this makes you smile.

Popeye:<P>It's so typical. It is such a shame that the only time they "snap out of it" is when you're gone, detached, moving on etc. They seem to really pick up on it pretty fast once your mind set has turned the corner. <P>A reverse example of that is that I just wrote this heartfelt mushy tribute to my spouse only to have him turn on me the next day like a rabid dog. <BR>OK. I guess I won't do THAT again.<P>So, I'm embarrassed and you're questioning whether or not you're giving up too soon.<P>I am probably the wrong one to give any advice as I'm the "go the distance" type. I like to fight until the last dog is hung. <P>You sound happy and relieved the marriage is coming to an end. And, you're indifferent. Indifference is the opposite of love. <BR>Right now I hate my spouse, so that means I still love him-that fine line thing. <P>But, you not only question your spouse's integrity, you absolutely believe you cannot trust this man under any circumstances. You think he is a pathological liar. You have given him every chance to redeem himself, and not much has happened. Til now.<P>What alarms me is that this is happening so fast. It's as if neither one of you have really realized the impact this will have on you later. You come to this forum, and you know the principles here, so there must be some small part of you that wants to restore the marriage. <BR>The forum can serve as your therapy to get you through the tough months ahead.<P>You are by all intents and purposes, in Plan B, although it is probably not a deliberate effort. But, like you say, it is producing results. Results you were looking for before now. It is almost as if you have your spouse on a timer only allowing his metamorphysis to complete within X number of days to become the husband he should be.<P>It fine to put in a time frame as long as your spouse knows in advance this is how it is and he has ample time to redeem himself. If he misses the 'deadline', then he deals with the consequences.<P>The problem with that is that for the few months after discovery, the WS's actions are riddled with inconsistencies, bad behavior and disingenousness. It takes an effective Plan B to startle them into remorse and honesty and actually become aware of their actions. <BR>They often display outstanding behavior at first, and if they are truly remorseful and grateful that they were able to salvage the marraige, he may continue to be honest and remorseful and eventually restore and rebuild a trust level. <BR>He CAN change. But, it takes a lot of work and a lot more time than what you have available until the divorce is final. It takes a commitment from both of you, and I don't know where you're really at with that.<P>I just wish you would give it a little more time so you don't do anything hasty you may regret later. However, I must admit, I admire your strength and envy your apparent sense of self and your reluctance to allow anyone or anything prevent you from living a life that is free from turmoil and heartache...I like how you expect and demand from your spouse the respect you're entitled to.<P>Regardless of your decision, I know you'll be doing a grand. I wish I could be of help to you, but, I really have no sound advice as I don't know your husband's assets, only his liabilites.<P>And I don't want you to leave the forum.<P>Catnip =^^=<P>I want to thank you for your kind words to me on another thread from a few days ago. Hearing that from someone I admire and respect was meaningful to me. Thanks<P>

Catnip and Lonesome Heart<P>Thank-you for your kind and supportive words. I suppose there are no concrete answers to such questions. I have to say that you've given me something to think about.<P>I definitely don't rely on this man for my self esteem. I'd be destroyed if I did! It's shown to me over and over again that trying that one more time is the harder choice. But at some point, you have to cut your losses to retain some of your original investment. <P>It surprises me that it has happened so fast too. That is the only thing that gives me pause, but this wasn't quick for him. He was living this other life with other women for a long time. He's had a long time to think about what he was doing.<P>I am here because I believe in lifelong love and thought we had what it took to have that. I am here because I draw from your strength and experience. It helps me to be a person I can be proud of. I am glad for this exchange and that growth, but it doesn't make a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, just lets me know one exists.<P>I suppose I haven't been fair and haven't praised my H for the wonderful things he's brought to my life. It's just so hard to see them right now. He's a stranger right now. he's been pouring his heart out to other women and leaving me in the dark. This is the guy I thought that if he ever cheated, it would be one-night stands because he couldn't be intimate with anyone but me. he could not betray that bond.<P>Anyway, i guess this is something I have to do alone and no one can make the decision for me, but I appreciate your hand holding.<P>I am going to sit on the divorce papers for a week or two after they arrive. Maybe you all would consider that not much time, but he's known for 5 weeks that they would be here any day. It hasn't provoked a change. I feel like once it's done, it's done and there is no turning back. I am not one to look back, so I will give it that extra week or so. <P>Thank-you for your support. It's so sad when it comes to this.<BR>[/B][/QUOTE]

Time--I was in Plan A for 18 months...H left me the 7th time in Jan...and I was DONE. Started a new relationship (stupid of me, I know), served divorce papers...my H decided he wanted me, wanted our marriage and family. <P>Fast forward to now: we just had a session with our counselor. He says, this is the first time in 6 months (and implied maybe the first time EVER) that he has seen us both on the same page, wanting the marriage. I've held back because I've been hurt so many times by his affair & separations. H has held back because of my OM. We BOTH have to take a chance. We're gonna do it.<P>My advice to you? Take a week, take a month...what are you in a hurry for? You've been hurt, you need to heal--THAT is an absolute, you won't be particularly good in another relationship until that happens. Stick with Plan B for awhile longer, see what your H does, his behavior may make up your mind. Right now, you're probably feeling the relaxing of the stress and tension, enjoy it, it doesn't mean that you don't care. Emotions aren't a very good measure of reality. We can feel fine, sit in front of our computers, read someone else's story and get mad as hoptoads at our own spouses--and the spouse had no new input!<P>My divorce papers have languished for almost 2 months, and I am GLAD I didn't pursue it (still wonder some if I should have).<P>Time, popeye.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Absolutely,<P>Be friendly, but cautious. Read up on <BR>what REAL reconciliation means. Evidently, <BR>it was not found in your prior attempts.<P>best of luck!<P>thl

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lor (Lor):<BR><B>My advice to you? Take a week, take a month...what are you in a hurry for? You've been hurt, you need to heal--THAT is an absolute, you won't be particularly good in another relationship until that happens... Right now, you're probably feeling the relaxing of the stress and tension, enjoy it, it doesn't mean that you don't care. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You're right. I guess there is some need in me for or public acknowledgement from me that this is intolerable. Other than that, there is no rush for the divorce. HE certainly isn't pursuing it, although he IS taking advantage of being technically separated. <P>As for other men, I am in no rush. I can't even conceive of being with someone else. I don't really have anything to offer anyone else. I can hardly deal with myself! It took 6 YEARS after my first divorce to have a serious relationship. No worries there.<P>Yes, I am enjoying the release from constant tension! <P>AND as Whenifindthe time points out, we haven't really made any REAL attempts at reconciliation. I saw that yesterday when I asked him what his view was of why we were getting divorced and he gave me a list of things which blamed me. How can there be any reconciliation attempts when we are still living in two different realities? ha!<P>Well, I don't know what time will change, but it sure isn't going to make things worse (did I just jinx myself?) Thanks all of you! You're wonderful!