Well, it's Friday afternoon. The other church secretaries and I are fixing to leave. (What a place for a divorced woman with the a serious case of lust!!!)<P>Tonight I'm gonna see the man who has cranked up my hormones. I'm a bit freaked out by this. For 5 years - since x left - I've been basically ok with no sex. There was no one around, how could I have sex? Not now. I guess I'm gonna have to pray a lot over this tonight. Neither of us think we're ready for that but then ....<P>Got a date with someone else in the morning. I don't know if I can handle this. I only dated one person at a time - in the appropriate way - you guys know what I mean. What if I have to choose? YIKES!!<P>I lived for years with a man who had become basically sexually anorexic so I really feel like I got cheated out of a lot. All those years when I should have gotten a lot more, uh, affection - yeah, affection. Now, with my middle-aged body I get guilt for wanting to do what I know, logically, I will regret.<P>I hate to get too religious - because I'm not the type to preach - I think I'm dealing with my sin nature and my God nature and they are fighting each other. I'm really struggling with this. But it's ok because he has been talking about the struggle he's facing with it. And that's really nice. <P>We've talked about my date rape and where my boundaries are but it's still really tough. And this time it's a matter of choosing when to give up my virginity. (I like the idea of becoming - under the right circumstances a 'born again' virgin) Maybe I should get into the big discussion of STDs. That might work like a cold shower. <P>Ah - I don't suppose any of life's big decisions are easy.<P> - Cinderella<BR> <BR>jane_elisem@altavista.com<P>---------<BR>Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they shall never cease to be amused. <BR>(Not too pertinent to the discussion, but thought I would throw it in.)

Hey Cinderella,<P>Just wanted to wish you luck tonight,and tomorrow,Egads Brain ......hey,well ya got it,ya got it!!LOL<P>I will be thinking of ya........<P>Just go and have fun! <P>Hang in there!<P>Gina <P><P>------------------<BR>"If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----

Well, Cinderella, I wish you luck.<P>I think the next step does complicate things. <P>Let me know what happens with you.<P>HBill: Are things still going well with you?<P><p>[This message has been edited by 711 (edited August 17, 2000).]

Hey you guys...can I jump in....<P>I am going to go to a parents without partner meeting tomorrow....I do not know what to expect...but who knows I could get ask out...but maybe not...<P>I have not dated in 20 years...<P>But I do have another ? for you. I have been making jokes about these 2 single divorce guys I know from school (where I substitute at) My H had emergency eye surgery and I went to go see him at the hospital and take him some stuff and he was on the cell phone with O/W. It realy hurt that he calls me when he has an emergency but not the respect to at least not talk to O/W in front of me. I left upset and told my SIL who was with me that it was time for me to trade for a new H.<BR>We walk out to the car and start to drive away and there was one of the single divorced guys I have been making jokes about wanting to date there pushing his dad around in his wheel chair. It was like all the people in the world to be there and he was there.<P>Then....my H goes to lawyer this week and talks about money ect...I am depressed and decide to take the kids to the pool where we have a membership....low and behold there is the other guy (single and divorced) and he talks to me for almost 2 hours while the kids swim...I have the sun burn to prove it...<P>So it is like I am getting a sign or something that there is other guys out there...<P>The guy at the pool was very nice and we had a great time talking...but where do I go from here....I don't want to scare him away...but I would love to go the movie or dinner or something...<P>And the big ? is does sex complicate things...somebody mentioned that...but I can tell you I am a religous person...but my hormones are going and I am not even dateing someone....<P>I am so out of experience....would like some opinions...<BR>Thanks

Please join in. We have quite the discussion going. <P><p>[This message has been edited by 711 (edited August 17, 2000).]

Hey gals,<P>Sounds like we have some actions here. Hey girls Im happy for you that you are out there hanging with men that can meet some of the needs you have not had met in awhile.<P>711,<P>I swear you are me. It had been 17 years for me when I jumped in my relationship with my boyfriend with both feet. I needed to be validated in that area because my marriage supposedly ended because of our poor sex life. Frankly my h just didn't do it for me. I had very litte attraction for him and as the years went by and the crueler he was to me the less i wanted that or him. <P>I have dated my boyfriend for 10 months. We are monogomous and we have developed a relationship that feels right. We communicate and share our lives. We travel and explore each others worlds. It is scary to start over at 38, but I am personally and emotionally capable at this point. I have been alone for 2 years now, and appreciate and love the companionship. I don't know where this is all going to end, but that is ok at this point. If my h would just accept the divorce papers I will be free and feel like I can make more choices in my life.<P>Hope you all have fun on your dates. I love having someone call me everyday and send sweet emails and take me to ball games all the time. I am having fun and as long as I am ill be here<P>G

Limerick:<P>Yes, I have noticed that we have so much in common. You are not 5'5' with golden brown hair and blue eyes are you? <P>I also get such sweet emails from my new friend. In fact, I keep copies of them in a notebook and it is getting very thick. He thinks that is really neat. I go back and read them sometimes and it is fun to see how they have changed overtime.<P>I too hope everyone keeps having fun on their dates. I think we all know are chances of success in these early relationships is pretty slim so if we keep it in perspective I think we can all enjoy what we have at this point.<P>Take care everyone.<P>

ddd

711,<P>Thanks for asking.<P>I saw your comment on "I wonder how HE thought it went." You have all these feelings, and the only way to deal with them is to enter "the zone." Then after you enter, you have a bunch of other feelings like the one you described. Plus the feeling giddy and all that stuff. I don't know about you, but the experience puts me in a completely different frame of mind. Before "the experience" I felt like it was the bottom of the ninth, and I was 20 runs behind. In other words, no hope. After "the experience," I feel like I'm one run ahead. It's still not completely comfortable, and I think we are both aware that there are lots of hazards ahead. But I also think we are determined to enjoy the ride.<P>My friend and I spent some time together this week, and it was great. We also have been communicating through e-mail. It has helped us figure out where each of us "is at."<P>I agree, we all need to keep things in perspective. But don't beat yourself up for enjoying life. We deserve to ENJOY!

HBill:<P>You sound so much like the guy I am with, it is kind of scary. I'm not freaking out anymore, now I'm just enjoying what we have at the moment. He toasted to the future tonight. I toasted to the here and now.<P>Glad to hear you are enjoying life. I think the best motto is to just take things one day at a time and not to get too caught up in where the relationship is going. <P>We also send each other lots of emails and have been seeing each other as much as possible. <P>Take care.<BR>

Well, date with guy number 1 went ok - he had business appt. at 6:30 and didn't get to my house until 9ish and, yes I believe him. Had an early appt. the next morning so he had to leave fairly early. We ate dinner and saw second half of Lakers-Pacers game. Ah, but we were virtuous. We're both struggling with that. <P>The idea of celibacy is both wonderfully thrilling and such a bummer. I don't want to jump into a physical relationship but, on the other hand, I'm ready for some action. I do suppose the wise thing is to wait till we (whoever the other person is) both know we should do this. What a pain! What confusion?<P>Date with guy number 2 was a bummer. You know, he seems like a nice guy and I think he can afford me a lot more comfortably than guy number 1 but...... We'd talked on the phone and on the internet but he didn't do a thing for me when we met. It wasn't just physical, I don't think. Who am I kidding? His attitude did seem different in person but it was mostly the package. (You know what is inside a gift is the most important but the packaging does matter.) Don't know what to do about this. He's new to town and just learning his way around. <P>*******New request for HELP!!!!*********<BR>I really haven't dated for the last 22 years. How do I let number 2 know that he's a very distant number 2. Like-not even in the race? Or should I see him one or two more times to be sure. I'd hate to turn down a great gift because I didn't like the gift wrap but - in person, this guy left me totally flat.<P>Maybe this dating stuff isn't all it's cracked up to be. I'm so confused, now. Especially when I'm around guy number 1 but most of that is hormonal.<P>Blast those hormones!!!<P>Seriously, how do you get out of seeing someone you don't think you ever want to see again - and do it diplomatically? Haven't done this in years!

So, no one's interested in that dilemna!<P>I have a new wrinkle since last night. I spent some time on the phone with an old boyfriend - sophomore year in high school. He says you never get over your first love. I hadn't heard from him in years - until a week or two ago. Long story which you don't need. He's on wife number 3 and I know he's not what I'd need even if he were available and in this part of the country.<P>So, anyway, we were talking and, being an open and transparent person, I told him lots more than he'd figured he'd find out, I suppose. When I told him about x's lack of interest in sex and the serious hormone rush from my current interest, his response was, "Go for it. You probably need to experience casual sex at least once."<P>Considering the state of my hormones, it sounds like good advice but this is a man without significant interest in God - whish is at the polar opposite of where current interest and I stand. Other than the God issue, the problem with casual sex is that you can die from it. <P>Friday night I did find a topic new guy didn't bite at. I jokingly said I could ask him about his STD history. He didn't take the ball and run with it.<P>So I need answers to the following questions:<BR> 1) How do I politely get out of seeing unexciting man without hurting his feelings?<BR> 2) Since STDs are an important thing to fnow about, how do you bring up the subject effectively?<P>Enlighten me, Please<P> - Cinderella<P> jane_elisem@altavista.com<p>[This message has been edited by cinderella (edited June 19, 2000).]

Cinderella:<P>As to your 1st ?: I didn't answer yesterday, because I really don't know. I haven't had to tell anyone that I didn't want to date them since I was back in my 1st year of college. Well, I have told a few men recently that I coulnd't date because I was just out of a divorce and that was pretty easy for them to accept. Of course that didn't stop me from dating the guy I with now, and the whole reason I started this post 170 replys ago. I'm hoping that some others will respond to your question. I would try to be honest but diplomatic. <P>As to STDS: Per my counselor, you shouldn't have sex until you really know the man and can trust him completely and that takes time. If you decide you don't want to wait for a committed relationship, and your not sure if you trust him, you could ask for test results. That would be the smartest thing to do but I do think it is hard to do. If he balks at that, you need to wonder why. <P>As to highschool boyfriend, I still think about my highschool sweetheart from time to time and wonder if "he was the one". But, I usually end up thinking it is just a fantasy and wouldn't work out. I have a high school reunion next year and have thought if it was meant to be, it will happen then. Still probably a fantasy too but I hear people get married to their highschool sweethearts all the time after their reunions. Unfortunately, three of the people I know about, who ended up with their highschool sweethearts, were married at the time and left their spouses. So, wI wonder how long those relationships will last.<P>I see you are struggling with the same problems I had with sex and religion. I know there is grace, but I also believe that if we go against what we believe is God's direction for us, although he still loves us, there will be consequences for those actions. I am now trying to decide if I should end this relationship because it is getting pretty serious but I can't bring myself to do it. I really enjoy being with him and hate to lose what we have even though I know it's probably just the result of two betrayed people needing each other. Oh, it never ends.<P>You may want to read back over some of the previous posts before deciding what to do. There is a lot of advice here. But, bottomline, you need to do what is best for you.<P>Good luck. <p>[This message has been edited by 711 (edited August 17, 2000).]

711-<P>Thanks for the advice.<P>The old boyfriend wouldn't be a good choice even if her were around. Sounds like he has tons of money but he's on wife # 3 and, despite being 6 ft. tall, he weighs in between 300-350#.<P>I still don't know what to do about Guy #2. Haven't had a call or email since Saturday. I don't want to lead him on. Maybe it was the situation. Maybe it's the guy but it wasn't what I had anticipated. As much as I want someone who can, on many levels, afford to be in a relationship with me, he just didn't "crank my tractor." <BR> <BR>Last night we (guy # 1 and I) had the STD talk on the phone. It was sort of a bummer but, as I told him, I'm the daughter of a medical social worker, I survived a date rape only to marry the perp (not the best choice I ever made), one of my best friends lost her husband to AIDS which he got through risky behavior, and I'm not a 23-y-o bimbette who thinks she will live forever. The conversation was pretty honest. It left us both feeling yucky. <P>It led to him asking what a woman does for 5 years if she is not having sex. My answer was, "Call a girlfriend and complain." <P>The discussion moved on to other related topics.<P>I truly find myself in a quandry. I feel so much physical attraction to this guy - on the lust caliber. I don't think he's the most handsome man I ever met. I don't think I'll end up with him permanently. And I don't even think he's been divorced long enough to be dating. But who am I to say that for him. <P>While I feel this incredible desire to succomb to my fleshly desires, I know that I can't do it without guilt. Based on my experiences and my religious beliefs, this is something I hate to do without what amounts to, on many different levels, a spiritual committment. Part of me really, really wants to do this (it's embarasing to be more specific) and part of me truly feels that the thing to do is to maintain my, mmm, is that spiriual virginity or celibacy. Which term do I prefer?<P>Ah, the conflict!!<P>I think this guy generally cares for me. It doesn't seem like it would be a one night fling but I'm afraid I'm a sitting duck. There's the "What would you think of me in the morning?" question. I don't know that it's the morally correct thing to do but I truly want to. God does honor our struggles and, if asked penitently, He forgives. But if it were as this was as good as it has the potential for being, it would be hard to quit once I got started. And I think that would be involved - at least from my standpoint. But I'm no authority on God's mercy. Just a frequent recipient.<P>Such a sweet agony! Is there really a bad choice? To wait and postpone the ecstasy or to go ahead and share the passion?<P>

I wish I could offer you sound advice in all of this sex stuff. I do not know what I would do either.<P>I have been talking to a recently D man that is a close neighbor of mine. I am attracted to him and we have had a couple of great talks at the pool.<P>We have not had a date, but I wonder when I will be ready to share my body with someone besides my H. I will be divorce next month and we have been separated for over 8.<P>I wonder if I am easy......because I am lonely and would like to go to dinner or movies with someone. I have been staying busy with kids and family...but that feeling of that somebody else is interested in you is really nice.<P>I guess I would ask myself these ?'s<P>Would the feeling of having sex be ruined by your guilt. Would it make it a better relationship? Would you feel used afterwards? Would you feel like you used him afterwards? <P>I guess I could go on.....but when I look back over what I wrote it takes the romance out of a wonderful thing. But this wonderful think, I believe needs to be shared with someone we truly are committed too.<P>I have probably totally messed you up now....I did not mean too.<P>Keep us posted.<BR>

my3kids - no you're not necessrily easy. I guess you could be but, probably, you aren't.<P>We've, most of us, have been hurt and we have found someone who makes us feel good about ourselves. The person we, hopefully, trusted and respected and from whom we should have received our greatest affirmations has chewed us up and spat us out. Frankly, this leaves us feeling like we've been pulverized. And this other person has shown us some affirmation and respect and we feel like we aren't slime. It's natural.<P>The only other thing I've sturggled with this was the divorce. The choices were more clear. Fight as long as I could. Then, get out with my sanity.<P>You raised some good questions. I'll have to think about them. I'm a bit scared. It really seems like we're heading that direction and I just feel paralyzed on two fronts - yes and no.<P>Still don't know what I want. Well, yes I do but I want two different things which are in total opposition to each other. This is much more fun than lots of inner struggles.

Being single again brings a whole new perspective to our lives. Heres the way I look at it....<BR>1. I am not a teenager anymore, I do not worry about my "reputation" so to speak. I am comfortable with myself now in a way I never was even in my 20s. <BR>2. I am not a religious person,I am more spiritual, but do have certain beliefs. I do not have the notion that in order to enjoy the sexual part of my being I need to be in a marriage, but do feel that I would want to be monogamous with a person in order to have a sexual experience with them . It is still an expression of caring to me, not just a purely sexual thing. <BR>3. I have crossed over into this as I have found a person I feel comfortable with on both a personal, emotional, and sexual level. He has been privy to my life for 12 years, has known all the BS I went through the past 2, and has been patient and caring with me. We didn't date until the divorce was final, and after 2 months of sexual frustration, I asked him if he would make love to me. For me, it was scary, but a wonderful experience. <BR>4. I am glad I did it. It was right for me. I can't say if it is right for everyone, but I truly missed the sexual aspect of my life, and had for several years. I was glad I could reconnect in such a loving way to that part of me again. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

Cinderella,<P>Well, I just can't keep quiet about this...I think you know you are on the wrong thread if you want encouragement to stick to your values. <P>I get the impression that you are not interested in finding someone to just fill the void, like so many people seem to be doing here. Sorry. That is my honest opinion.<P>Instead of worrying about what the guy will think about you afterwards, maybe you might ask yourself what you would think about him. Personally, I don't want to get involved with someone who has sex without commitment. Because if they could have sex with me without commitment, then they could have sex with anyone else who comes along and strikes their fancy.<P>There is a big difference between someone who likes you and is attracted to you and someone who truly cares about you. A person who truly cares about you would not pressure you or put you in a situation where you would compromise your values. If someone said to me in a moment of weakness "here's my gun, shoot me with it" or "Hi, I'm standing on the edge of this cliff. Could you push me over?" I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't use someone for sex even if they gave me permission, and I would have no respect for someone who could use me during a time of weakness. Right now, you are not strong. Nobody is after a divorce, if they really cared about their marriage, IMO. Unfortunately, the world is full of people who will use you if you let them. <P>It is unfortunate that sex is even an issue so early in a relationship these days. Before I was married, it was the "three date rule". Basically, if you went out on three dates, and you liked the guy, then you had sex. Nowadays, people are just accustomed to assuming that sex will happen pretty quick after dating a little while. Another reason I'm not dating. I'm perfectly aware why most men ask me out for dates. And it ain't so they can find a life-time partner, most of the time. <P>

Cinderella,<BR>I think if you just let things die, guy#1/2(i forget) will get the message. I tried dating a woman back in MArch I found interesting and we had a good time I though on the first date. However when I tried calling her, she put me off, she was too tired, her favorite show was on, or she wasn't home(for a single woman with 2 small childdren she sure got around a lot!)so the last time I left a message for her to call me. Thats been about 3-4 weeks ago so I think I got my answer.<P>AS for the sex, I am screwed up in the head about this issue.<BR> <BR>My minister friend told me that once sex starts, the conversation ends. Basically he is telling me to wait, that if I get involved in a physical realtionship right away, the conversations where we get to know each other end.<P>Thats kind of what happened with my x and I. We met at a wedding, had sex that night and then started a long distance relationship(200 miles). Our once a month grew into every other if not every weekend within a year and we were married within 2. Our weekends together involved alcohol and sex.<P>During our final counseling session, my x told me, and the counselor, that after a few drinks she could have sex with anyone. <P>Now couple that with the situation of my first true love in college who at the time claimed to be a Christian,dumped me after I couldn't perform( the religious messages she was giving me didn't mix with the situation at hand)and the fact that my x claimed to be a borne again Christian has me kind of wondering. <P>Is sex this special thing that should be saved for a special relationship like I was brought up to believe or is it just recreation that can be enjoyed by both parties.<P>As for the STD issue, I was tested twice after my x's affair. The only thing that showed up was that I was exposed to hepatits somewhere along the line. The Dr kept saying it might have been from a vacinnation or something like that. I think it may have been from one of the very few one night stands I had 20+ yrs ago.<P>As for the question of will I have sex, right now I would have to say yes. That might change at a later date.<P>Where the HELL is Murph and MEDIC now that the hard questions come out???????????

This sex thing also has me bugged. Morally and religously I do not think I would be able to without a ring on my finger (at least engagement)but then again....who knows. When you are used to having sex routinely for years....when you talk about it, it seems easy to do...<P>But I think when it really comes down to it, it will be a long time for me with some one else. I do like that saying Bob, when the sex starts the conversation ends.....and I am a big talker.<P>I have been tested for STD and I do not have anything, thank goodness! I am glad that I did it for my own sake, though it was hard emotionally going to go have the test done.<P>Ok....where are other opions out there? I would like to here from more Men and how they feel about this?