Ok,I'll put in my two-bits.<BR> This is a tough issue for me,too.I've been alone,now,for over a year,getting divorced soon.I don't really feel"married"anymore.I liked being married,never having to worry about AIDS,dating again,or being alone.<BR> <BR> Now,here I am,thrown out there with all the other single people(and it scares the H*ll out of me!).Right now,I don't have much of a desire to date again.Guess I'm still going through the"feeling burned"emotions.I suppose that'll change with time.<P> I was raised a strict Catholic,and"Don't have sex until you're married"was hammered into me.Not a Catholic anymore,but the values are still there.I'm just not sure what to believe now that I'm thrust into this situation.I told my folks that I may never get married again,but I didn't want to become a monk.Bad move.I actually saw my mother bite her lower lip.That's all I need,another guilt trip,on top of feeling like I failed in my marriage.<P> So what's a person to do if they feel they won't get married again?Become celibate for life? Or give up your old values,so you can enjoy life?Thanks,STBX,I could throttle you!<P> What with the high divorce rate,and a lot of my friends,and relatives divorced,I'm not even sure how I define a marriage anymore.It's seems to be just a legal document that states if one of you walks,you can take half of the other person's money(at least here in WA).I had always thought of it as a binding spiritual union,but divorce seems to be so common-place today.Perhaps sex is just a natural human act,and we tend to write too much spiritual connection into it?But unfortunately,recreational sex can kill you,too.<P> Lots of questions,but no easy answers.Perhaps time will clarify them for me.<P> --Murph

Murphy and RWD,<P>I come from the other end of the spectrum. I was raised to believe that there was nothing intrinsically wrong with sex before marriage, but that it was much,much better when between two loving, committed people. I never suffered any guilt for the experimentation I did in my early years. All of my previous relationships prior to my second H were monogamous (by me at least). However, I believe that this view of sex is partially responsible for my infidelity. I did "care" for the OM, but had sex with him even though I knew I could never have a commitment with him. I put myself in a position that made this kind of thinking possible. My second H also claimed to be Mr. Virtuous, but went out and cheated on me within two weeks of my confession because he "needed a friend". Some friend. Just like the OM was not my friend, and I was not his. Cause friends don't wreck each other's lives or take advantage during times of weakness. Anyway, old news.<P>I've come to my conclusions through the school of hard knocks. Alot of times, religious teachings have a really smart, pragmatic reason behind them. Unfortunately, the logic behind it sometimes gets lost with the "just say no" kind of religious upbringing so many people have to suffer through. <P>I had sex with both my first and second H's early in our relationship. Looking back, they both displayed characteristics that would have been much clearer or easier to step away from if sex had not been involved early on. I'm sure my second H would say the same about me. Not only that, sex tends to give the impression of intimacy that is not really there. Especially if it is good sex. <P>Top that off with the very real dangers of STD's and it just doesn't make sense to have sex without commitment. Now, I'm in the same boat as Murphy. What is commitment? It sure doesn't exist on a piece of paper. However, consider the relatively rare presence of people on this forum (either the divorced or infidelity forum) who were virgins when they married. I can think of perhaps two or three, and I've been coming here for about two years. Maybe there is something to that "waiting till marriage" stuff after all.<P>Now don't get me wrong. I went from enjoying sex almost every night for years, to absolutely nothing in the past year. This is not something that has been easy or fun. All I have to do is think about the alternative though, and it makes it alot easier. Since my divorce, I've been very physically attracted to a couple of men. However, after they find out that sex is out of the question, I have discovered lots of interesting things. I'm convinced I would not have learned these things about them until much, much later if sex had been involved. Also, it has been easier for me to just be myself. There are no games, no worrying about who's-doing-who, etc. I have more peace of mind than I thought possible, once the withdrawal period was over.

I think the sexual aspect of a person can be supressed during certain stage of our lives or can be enjoyed depending on the circumstances. I believe Student had made a choice that she feels strongly about for her, and it is working. I know many others who have done this as well. <BR>I think that if I had not met someone who I feel comfortable with I would have also waited. But I would have waited simply because it wasn't right for me then. I have always enjoyed sex, enjoyed the foreplay and afterwards even more. Women more so than men are taught to wait until the right one comes along. So we bring a little more baggage to the mix. <BR>Do I worry this person does not respect me?? No, and I don't disrespect him for sleeping with me either. If we go our separate ways, I will look on this as a wonderful learning experience, my first venture out and I survived it. I will not feel cheap or lessened by it. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

What I do feel strongly about is when people who are having sex without commitment try to convince me (or anyone else) that what they are doing is magical and special. Basically, all they are doing is "getting their freak on" till something better comes along. <P>I'm assuming most people want a committed relationship at some point. Now, if someone has no problems swapping partners every few months or every few years, then go ahead. Just don't try and tell me that those experiences are loving and caring. On the other hand, if someone's goal is to have a committed relationship, then having sex before said commitment in most cases does not lead to a life-time relationship. <P>Statistics are pretty clear...Those who choose to wait until a commitment (engagement or marriage) generally have marriages that last alot longer than those who do not wait. <P>For me, love does not exist without commitment. The rest is just passing time. I just don't choose to spend my life jumping from man-to-man anymore and calling it "experience" and certainly not "love". It would be very easy for me to run on down to the local bar and pick someone up. It would be easy for me to have sex with any of my guy friends for awhile. I like sex. I like it alot. If that is what I chose to do, I wouldn't feel used either, cause I was using them too. I have no double standard in that respect. However, my goal is to have love in my life. Real love. And real love is not found in someone's bed. Like I said, real love, for me, does not exist without commitment. Since I don't have any religious objections to having sex before marriage, or even any guilt feelings about it either, I have no need to make sex for the sake of sex into something it is not. I have no need to talk myself into believing that non-committed sex is anything except an exercise in learning how to be ok with using someone else or letting them use me. Getting into bed with someone doesn't teach anyone anything they can't learn outside of the bedroom. Well, there are a few things that are learned:<P>Guy A likes women on top.<BR>Guy B likes sex with the lights on and lingerie.<BR>Guy C likes light bondage sometimes, food products, and talking dirty<BR>Guy D likes it "rough"<BR>Guy E is good at oral sex<P>Big deal.

Ok, guys/gals....I'll get into the fray. <BR>I'm not divorced, but sepearted 2 full years....have strict values. BUT....have 'dated' (whatever that is) two professional, intelligent, both high powered university employees. So.....what the trouble? I won't do 'immediate' sex, I don't want 'everafter', am not smothereing, am finally Ok with 'me', but after not having 'dated' for 25 years.....please GENTLEMEN, tell me why it is that in my (limited) experience you cannot be honest about 'dating' other women. Both men tell me they like me because I am 'quality'...and I am....but both lie and 'hide' other dates.<BR>I could be Ok with 'dating' others....I am. <BR>I am not 'asking' for exclusive....nor offering it. But I DO want 'honesty'.....<BR>So, men, explain to me PLEASE, why you are unable to be honest about dating others. No, I don't want the gory details, just to know 'where things stand' so I can make my own choices for myself. Is this a 'guy' thing of control, manipulation....that is you keep your 'women' in sepearate little comparments, you can control all better? <BR>It's been 25 years.....clue me in. Thanks.<P>------------------<BR>Peace is the ability to wait patiently inspite of the panic brought on by uncertainty. Peace....Sky

Whoa....I'm new here. My friend sent me.<BR>Just finished reading stuff by 'The Student'.<P>DITTO AND DITTO.....except for the sex every night....although I miss someone in my bed.<P>TO WAIT....AND SEE WHAT YOU LEARN ABOUT THE 'PERSON' BECAUSE OF THAT.....DITTO AND DITTO....couldn't have said it better 'student'. You've 'got' it. <P>SEX is NOT a 'relationship'.....never has been, never will be, not even great sex. I had that for 20 years in a 'marriage'!!!<BR>And sex too soon will do NOTHING but cloud an confuse what the 'relationship' is.<P>So.....decide what you're really looking for, what you really want.....and then choos the appropriate course of actions. No double if I had been in bed with my two Univ. guys, I'd have seen them longer, taken more places, more $$ spent on me....then dumped, like the other longer term women in their lives. Why do they keep coming back for a date with me from time to time....can't wait to read your answer on that one student. I have my 'ideas' but will look forward to your. <P>------------------<BR>Peace is the ability to wait patiently inspite of the panic brought on by uncertainty. Peace....Sky

STUDENT,<P>Got to jump in here. Your views are admirable and articulate. Here comes the "but."<P>You seem to suggest that the "experience" has no value. That it is just swapping spit. No love, no caring, no special feeling, no nothing. I am just getting my freak on until the next "thing" comes along. Well, I wasn't looking for the first "thing" never mind looking for the next "thing."<P>I understand your point of view, and I suspect the stats support it, as you say. I have been through a lot, as many others here on MB have. The "experience" is very meaningful to me. Regardless of where it goes, I wouln't change it. "It" certainly feels like something, not nothing.

Ok, I'll take Guy E.......<P>All kidding aside(actually, I will take Guy E),I did the free and single thing in the 70s. I was a young professional woman living in the big city and enjoying all that had to offer. That included several one night stands. <BR>Now I am 45, single after 17 yrs, and trying to decide what is right for me. It is purely an individual choice. What I do with another person is between us, and however we define that is up to us. For me, I wanted to enjoy the sexual aspect of myself again. And when I met someone I was comfortable with, I did.<P> Am I in love?? No, but in lust right now, yes. Do I feel connected?? Not sure about that. But if the bottom fell out of it tomorrow, I would not feel quilty, ashamed, used, or anything else. I would look at it as another life experience. One I am glad I had. <P>------------------<BR>Susan<p>[This message has been edited by sue (edited June 22, 2000).]

Guy E here, really, its my favorite activity.<P>My question to Sue is, why did you ask? are you more liberated now? just want to overcome the frustration? did your friend not want to push you?<P>I have a colleague at work, and I would state that we both like each other alot, and the rest of the office likes us together also.<BR>Although she is not the right one forever, I guess I wondering about how you decided to ask him? and what was his intentions?<P>Was it weird in your own home?<P>Right now from a STBXH, going to be living in my own new house in two weeks, with a higher than average sex drive male, I would like to sleep with someone relatively soon. Its not for the right reasons, but then its not permanent either.<P>since we work together, I would not unless I knew that one of us was leaving shortly. Actually, she should be leaving shortly. she was actually worried that I thought she was a floozie for being interested in me, because she is still seeing someone who is not right for her, and I know we are more compatible that they are, and her XH.<P>The hormones are quite active after our first mediation session, where I know there is no hope, even if she changes her mind. <P>I guess I am more wondering if I should wait to be asked, or ask, if I think the time is right? Right now I am planning on waiting, but for how long?<P>thl<BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited June 22, 2000).]

Ok, since you asked.....<BR>This is someone whom I have known over 10 yrs. He was married, and so was I when we met. He took aerobics classes from me for several yrs. I always thought he was a nice guy, nothing else....<BR>Forward 8 yrs....a girlfriend of mine is going through a divorce...she is going to a support group...tells me she has met someone nice through the group, and I know him...guess who??? They date for about a year, have dinner with my X and I .....<BR>Forward another 2 yrs..he and her have broken up, he hears about my story from her...he calls me, lets me know he understands my situation, lends an ear (his xwife also had an affair)he is encourging me to save my marriage...<BR>forward another 6 months....my X and I have separated...he knows and calls me...we have several conversations on the phone about the situation...that is all.....<BR>Forward to the divorce......it is over, my marriage is over. I do not love my x anymore, I am now ready to go on with my life.I called him and asked him out for a drink...for 2 months we see each other...it feels comfortable as we have known each other so long.......<BR>2 months later...I have asked him all kinds of questions about his first experience after divorce..he is open and candid with me...I ask him if he has ever thought of me in a sexual way....he says yes, and I admit I have too. I express my concerns over Aids, etc. He and I both agree to be tested. The results come in...more discussion about what this means to either of us...where I am in my life, and he in his....<BR>One evening, the kids are gone, he is over for dinner..I know if I am ready , he is too. I plan a romantic dinner, candles, wine, etc. I admit, I wanted it and made sure he knew it. We had kissed, a little petting, but until this night, nothing else.<BR>It felt good, it felt right..all he asked was that I see only him in this way, and if I felt the need to be with someone else, he wanted to know, because he wanted to be monogamous. So far, I have not been interested in anyone else. <P><P>------------------<BR>Susan

OK, so I get the answer, I wait for the romantic dinner, candle light and wine at her place. I can do this, if there are no kids around. I will wait until she can't stand it any longer.<P>Sounds good to me, I can wait (I hope, damn testosterone!)<P>thanks<P>thl

whenifindthetime,<P>"with a higher than average sex drive male, I would like to sleep with someone relatively soon."<P>Wow, with that one statement, you definately confirm my current beliefs. Does this woman know that she is just "someone". An orifice, really? I too have a higher than average female sex drive (although you may not believe me) but refuse to be just another hole to get plugged. You could hire a prostitute and save yourself the work-place dilemma. But, I guess it is more attractive to find a sex partner who is less risky (you hope). An expensive prostitute is at least educated about STD's. You could just tell this woman at the office the truth. Something like "I know we could never have a future together, but I haven't had sex in awhile and I wondered if you could help me out." Bet that wouldn't go over too well. <P>Imagine the bragging rights you'd get from "doing" the office chick, too. You'd be the stud, and she'd just be the office slut after it was all said and done. Actually, she kind of does sound like a floozie, but it sounds like almost any 'ol hole will do for you and your "higher than average sex drive". Sometimes coming here is better than any cold shower. <P>Sue,<BR>You have a right to pursue your life in any way you choose. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. I'm glad you can admit that it is about just sex, mainly. Your guy seems to have a thing for recently divorced women though. Are you so sure that it was his wife who had the affair? I've considered saying the same thing to people who ask me about my divorce, even though it would be a lie. Noone could prove it. So, let me get this straight. He heard you were separated and called you, then he encouraged you to save your marriage? What a line. "Hi, I'm Sensitive Guy." If he really wanted you to save your marriage all that much, he wouldn't have been calling you. What's he gonna say. Dump your husband and date me? No, just putting out the good vibes in hopes of getting the payback later. <P>chocchip,<BR>Sure, it feels like something. That is the problem. It "feels" like something when it is exactly nothing. Having sex without commitment with someone you like gives the impression of intimacy and caring that is not there. When they (or you) are "done" with that person, then you (or they) get unceremoniously dumped for the next person that happens to trip their trigger. That is why "it" is nothing. <P>Skylar,<BR>You bring up some really good points. I wish men would be more honest about dating other women too. I dated a guy briefly a few months after my divorce. He'd drop little "hints" about dating others, but left it up to me to fill in the blanks. Even when I'd confront him point blank, he would obfuscate. Even though sex was not involved, I didn't like being lied to. I broke up with him pretty quick, and won't even be friends with him anymore. It just seemed like this big game to him, like "if you won't sleep with me, I'll find someone who will". Ok, go ahead. It is not like I can't just pick up any 'ol ho at the bar myself if I wanted to do that.<P>I happen to agree with you that people lie to gain control. Men lie about sex and dating because they are used to maintaining the image of exclusivity to have any hope of getting a piece of *ss. This is another reason why sex without commitment is out of the question for me. <P>Why do they ask you out on dates from time to time? Either they like the challenge of trying to get you to have sex with them, or they actually like your company. As long as you stick to your principles, you don't have to worry about the former. One of my favorite songs right now is "Ex-girlfriend" by No Doubt. It goes something like:<P>I kinda always knew I'd end up your ex-girlfriend.<BR>I hope I hold a special place with the rest of them. <BR>Just another ex-girlfriend on your list, but I guess I should have thought of that before we kissed...<P>You know, I don't want to be just another ex-girlfriend either. This guy I "dated" probably stayed in my life longer than he would have if we had just had sex,though. For men who are not looking for a commitment, it is probably pretty frustrating to spend alot of time with a woman they are sexually attracted to and not have sex. HBill mentioned something like "a relationship either moves toward something or they drift apart". For most men, that "something" is sex. The whole wining and dining thing isn't because they are looking for a life-time partner most of the time. It is because they want sex. I agree that some of them might stick around longer if you were having sex (cause they are having their "needs" met). Also, more willing to spend money and take you places because, from their point of view, they are getting "something" out of the relationship. These aren't the kind of men I would ever consider making a commitment to anymore, in any circumstance. When I met my second H, he was just looking for someone to have fun with (his words). I suppose I was too. That set a bad precedent, IMO, because as soon as our relationship was not "fun" anymore, our marriage went down the toilet. That is what I mean about commitment. Commitment is what people do when they aren't having "fun". Waiting to have sex until a commitment is not exactly "fun". <P>You could say I'm a pretty die-hard feminist. I don't like the idea that women seem to shoulder the burden for responsible sex. That is why I would insist on being with a man who had the same values. If they are having recreational sex, then, by definition, *I* am the one who would be forced to be the "strong one", and that sucks.<P>I'm not looking for a life-time commitment, so I choose not to be around men I'm very sexually attracted to. I don't want to deal with the frustration either. Guys I hang out with are those I have no attraction to. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited June 22, 2000).]

Student,<BR> OK,I couldn't resist!<BR> You said"Guys I hang out with are those I have no attraction to." You said it,not me!<BR>Well,here I am,still waiting to take you out for that Mocha! <BR> All right,enough of that.It's nice to still see you around.You said your second H was looking for someone to have fun with.Are you referring to mostly sex when you say"fun"?Do you mean when the sex isn't so hot anymore,the marriage isn't either?<BR> Do you think men will wine and dine you,or take you nice places only to get you into the sack?Have you ever had any men take you places because they want to"be with you",not just showing you a good time so you'll hopefully return the favor?<BR> I just wondered if you have a mindset that any man who treats you nice,does so just to get sex?I could see how a woman could feel that way after a while.If you do feel that way,does that make you a little bitter towards all men? <BR>I know a few women at work that have gotten burned,and are pretty much man-haters.You can't even say hello to them,without getting the evil-eye,or having them make you feel you're harrassing them.<BR> I'm really not trying to give you the third-degree,just still trying to understand what makes women tick!I guess one of the reasons I married my stbx was not the sex so much,but because I wanted to"be with her".I enjoyed being with her,and we did have fun(not just sex).Perhaps that why our marriage lasted a long time,because it wasn't based on just good sex,but because we really liked being with each other.Make sense? Take care.<P> --Murph

Hey Murph,<P>Glad that you added your 2 cents in! <P>I haven't been on this thread but have read all of it.I would like to throw my cents into the ring!<P>Murph,First lets just think for a moment that you are not married anymore and your doing great!.....ok,so your out w/your buddies and you see what you find a very attractive woman!......<P>First and foremost Men will aproach a woman bc of her "looks"(Good God,Harley has one of the EN's as "Attractive SP")Men are very visual people.Well,when you have an attraction what does that go to........DUH!<BR>It is automatic that is goes towards sexual feelings for that person!<P>Sudent,that is who men are........now,Murph I am not dogging ya,really I am not.Just stating the facts!Men will find a woman attractive talk w/her,ask her out and than things will go from there!<P>That is when you have "Gentalmen" and "Pigs",it is trying to find out which is which.I believe that a gentalmen will still feel the same way (he is a male!)but yet I think that he can be the one that you can have a wonderful life time of commitment!<P>The "Pigs" on the other hand will use you and abuse you and toss you aside!<P>This is really hard for me........only bc I do see from where Student is coming from and I do agree w/her.I also see from the Murph's and yes even Thl.<P>I have to be completly and totally honest here and say that I am a very sexual person,always have been and probably always will be!........(Good God it has only been 2 months and I am going out of my mind!) <P>I went out w/my stbx for a year,yes,I did say a year before we made love!We were friends first.Did I know that he wanted more than just a friendship w/me?....of course I did,he made it pretty clear that he liked me more than just a "friend".<P>It is funny actually bc at the time I wasn't even really attracted to him,and really wasn't interested.We went out in a group w/people from work........and than I fell in love w/him....I really didn't even realize it for quite a while.<P>When we did finally have sex,it was the most wonderful passionate love ever!.,.....<P>I actually hate to admit this,but bc I am very sexual and love it........he was great,that is one of the reason's that I married him.He was and still is a great lover.All of this mess now,I still wouldn't trade in the last 15 years!<P>It still comes down to what ever you are comfortable w/.Everybody has the right to choose how they are to live their lives!<P>Student...........You go girl!!!!!!<BR>(Honestly I don't know how you do it)<BR>(can you give me your secret?)<P>Take it easy!<P>Gina <P><P>------------------<BR>"If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----

Murphy,<P>"Do you think men will wine and dine you,or take you nice places only to get you into the<BR>sack?" Most of the time, yes, I believe that.<P>"Have you ever had any men take you places because they want to"be with you",not just<BR>showing you a good time so you'll hopefully return the favor?" Yes. I went to Zesto's with a guy friend the other night that I know for a fact is not attracted to me. <P>I'm very nice to almost any guy I meet. Alot of times guys think I'm interested in them if *I* am nice. If I were in Seattle, I would look you up. If you were in Atlanta, I'd tell you to look me up. I have lots of guy friends, but am just really cynical about their "dark" side. I have a ton of respect for a couple of my guy friends who clearly are not surfing the bars, going to strip joints, or changing girlfriends every few years. Problem is, I'm divorced twice and about 8-10 years older than them. They deserve to be with someone their own age who they can experience first time marriage with (and probably life-time marriage in their case). <P>"You said your second H was looking for someone to have fun with.Are you referring to mostly sex when you say"fun"?Do you mean when the sex isn't so hot anymore,the marriage isn't either?" I think it wasn't just about sex. I know he truly enjoyed my company. However, I still think that people stay in non-committed relationships they should not stay in because the sex is good. Early on, I could see my ex had a temper, was possessive, and controlling among other things. He took me places and bought me things. No one had ever done that for me before, and I thought that he loved me. In retrospect, it was just convenient for him to get married at the time. He didn't really care about my dreams or goals or experiences. I was fun. Alot of fun. When things got hard, he punished me in big ways and small for not being "fun" and convenient. <P>Gina,<BR>How do I do it? I do my best not to put myself in a situation where I would be tempted. That means that I don't hang out with guys I'm attracted to. That might change if I ever decided I wanted to be married again someday. People seem to think that just because I am celibate that I don't like sex. I DO. I DID. I miss it alot sometimes. I just don't like being treated like a used Kleenex. My ex and I had a great sex life too. He told me that is one of the things he will miss the most. <P>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited June 23, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited June 23, 2000).]

Student, <BR>I answer to your post, let me clarify a few things....<BR>the man I am talking about is 51, was married for 27 years. He was faithful the whole time, and I believe him. <BR>He went to a divorce support group and met my friend. I truly believe he was doing this to better himself, and perhaps to meet women to date. Whe you are over 35, most people your own age who are single are divorced or widowed. I don't think he has a "thing" for divorced women, I just think the pickings for single people after a certain age leave mostly the divorced or widowed. <BR>I believe he truly was interested in me as a friend only, and I pursued him on a more intimate level. I believe his calls to me were sincere, he had been there, similar to other male friends I have that also gave me advice. <BR>Had I not called him after the divorce was final, I am not sure he would have ever asked me out. Maybe he was interested, but did not pursue me.<BR>What you leave out of the equation, Student, is that while some men do seem to want sex early on, and sometimes without any commitment, many are looking for a committed relationship as well, especially after beiing married and living with one person for a time. I think they miss that closeness that a commited relationship had as much as women do. They do "grow up" from their twenties. <BR>I do not believe that men have any more tendency to lie to get what they want from a woman than women do.<P>------------------<BR>Susan

Well, I've decided what the problem is with guy # 2 - he, externally, reminds me too much of xh. Nice clothes but doesn't do them justice. Bad haircut. Too much pooch in front. I don't think there's much chemistry. Trying to decide if I should give him a second chance. Maybe it was wrong day - but, when I first saw him, after telephoning and e-mail, my first thought was "Please, don't let that be him." It was. I had a pretty nice time but don't think it will go anywhere. How much does he need to know? Guys, help me out.<P>As for what to do with guy # 1, I think I know. Thanks for the thought provoking discussion. We can keep this up. I think I need to keep my clothes on - though it's awful hard. I don't know him well enough, don't want to have to live with too much regret. Yes, sex would be nice and I think it would be wonderful. On the other hand, it's pretty nice to feel all hot and bothered and for it to be caused by someone not just be desire for someone to make you feel that way. However, .........

oops - double posted that thing. Sorry!<p>[This message has been edited by cinderella (edited June 23, 2000).]

Hi Sue,<P>Just thought I'd pass on a "happy ending" story for you. The divorce group I stayed with (it was the third one) was a mix of men and women, all were the betrayed ones, but really nice people. Well, a social group evolved out of it, and last year, went to the wedding of two of the members. It was really nice, it wasn't a rebound (which I think is a legitimate fear for most of us) for either one of them, the teenage to adult children of each of them were thrilled with their parent's choice - it was great. <BR>

Student,<P>I am telling you what,thank god that I don't work w/any men!........I am not out and about to all the bars either!(I do go out w/my girlfriends but it is to a resturant,their house or the movies.)<P>I do agree w/you!I can totaly see from where you are coming from!<P>I too have had the problem w/just being friendly or nice and they do take it as me wanting more.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My ex and I had a great sex life too. He told me that is one of the things he will miss the most.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I did tell a friend that the only thing that was really good in our marriage was "that" and that I was sure that he wouldn't be the only one to fullfill that need!<P>I am definatly not staying in this marriage bc of that.I can't.I need more than just "sex".He has not show me one bit of affection.........a hug or a kiss when he would come home from work,in about 4-5 years.(so there for a while I really did feel like just a piece of meat.)<P>I really do admire your beliefs and principle......It must be pretty difficult!<BR>I can only hope that when the time comes and I am single.(UGH!)that I will have the will power and strentgh,that you have!<P>You go girl!..........<P>Gina <P><P>------------------<BR>"If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----