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#660736 06/23/00 10:39 AM
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Yes, I have heard of other who have met in a divorce care group that have gotten together and married...<BR>I do have to say that my friend had been divorced for three years now, and has been very open with me in that he wants another marriage someday.He is in a different place than I. He feels ready to commit again. But I have been very candid in where I am with my situation as well. I will commit to monogamous dating, but not to any lifelong thing. <BR>He knows that for me, it is way too soon for anything other than monogamous dating. But I have no real desire to go out with anyone else, and neither does he, so it works. <BR>If he told me tomorrow that he doesn't want to date, I have to say I would feel sad, I enjoy him, but I would survive. <BR>I guess the thing I am trying to say, is that, while you are going through all this s***, you wonder if life will ever be normmal, will I ever have others in my life again, etc. <BR>Life does go on. I have chosen not to let it pass me by. I want to experience all it has to offer. A male-female relationship is, for me,part of life. It fits, it feels right for me. I want it. I want to share my life with another someday. Believe me, I am just as scared of going through any more pain as any of the rest of you. But life is full of chances.I am willing to take them.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Susan

#660737 06/23/00 10:40 AM
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oops double post<p>[This message has been edited by sue (edited June 23, 2000).]

#660738 06/23/00 11:01 AM
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Over the past weeks I have been keeping up with the various threads here...maybe it should be changed to Having Sex Again instead of dating again. Just dating is a pretty simple thing. Having sex is all together different and most of the time it's never simple. What is right for one person is not necessarily right for someone else. If you make a choice to be celibate...good for you. If you don't, then good for you too. <P>I think most people in this forum know about the dangers of STD's, they know the complications that can erupt out of no where from doing too much too soon; we are all old enough to know better. People make choices sometimes based on their past experiences, so naturally, your ideas on sex before marriage, or without a committment, or whatever will most likely reflect the results of your own personal actions. All of us at one time had a committment and look where we are? My thoughts on committment are fragmented at best. <P>I quess the heart of this debate is whether to have sex or not with or without a committment. It is a choice that each individual has to make for themselves. If you choose to have sex then you should also be prepared to deal with the consequences. If you can't then don't play. We are all vulnerable right now...but I believe you know when its right even when logically it seems like an insane thing to do. It is your choice.<BR>.[<BR>

#660739 06/24/00 12:01 AM
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Hello everyone,<P>This is an interesting thread. I agree w/lonelysoul. It is really not about dating but about having sex again. I am in a monogomous relationship with a great guy that I met through mutual friends. I was propbably more interested in the sexual side of this relationship than him. Do I regret it not a bit. I did what I did for me. I had to backtrack a bit, because intimacy does not just happen. It is about sharing your thoughts and feelings and your partner sharing also.<P>I had misgiving, I was raised a nice Catholic girl. I attended parochial schools. The education there is that casual sex is bad. I am still spiritual and still attend church. I guess what changes my attitude is that I don't want to be in another relationship were sex was always being used as a weapon or witheld as punshiment. My ex played major headgames w/me and I was a confused gal. <P>I am having a great time w/my boyfriend. We go to baseball games, museums, the zoo. We both love movies and we go alot. We travel great together and I have had some of the most memorable experiences w/him. Is it love? Is it forever? I can't say. I am taking one day at a time. I don't want to exit one marriage and jump into another too quickly. If it happens it will happen. If he walked tommorrow I would be sad, but I would survive. I would be thankful for all that I have learned in this relationship.<P>Student,<P>I know that there are men out there who want more than just sex. I think men are as confused if not more confused as us women about relationships. I hope that one day, a nice guy will bring you around again. It is sad to let infidelity jade you so badly.<P>Take care all<P>Gerri

#660740 06/24/00 12:04 AM
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Sue, <P>I agree that most people our age are divorced. However, I also believe that most divorces are completely unnecessary. I wouldn't date a man who initiated a divorce except under very rare circumstances. I don't want someone who thinks divorce or finding someone new is the answer to their relationship problems.<P>I don't believe men lie more than women (in general), I just happen to believe more men lie when it comes to sex than women do. It is still true that the majority of infidelity is committed by men, for instance.<P>You said that men miss the closeness of a committed relationship as much as women. I totally agree. If that is the case, then they should recommit, not just hop in bed with the first willing woman who comes along (and vice versa). Sex does not equal closeness. It is only the illusion of closeness. I suppose you and I disagree there, and that is fine. I should just let this drop.<P>You also make it sound like having a man-woman thing is the only way to "live life" and perhaps imply that people who aren't out having sex are too afraid to live life. Hmmm. Well, I guess we're really getting nowhere with this conversation. You sound pretty happy with your choices, so there it is. <P>oh, there are tons of Guy E's out there. You could probably fit their brains in a thimble, but it sounds like your goals don't necessarily include the head on their shoulders. Far be it from me to spoil your fun. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Limerick,<BR>I know that there are plenty of men out there who want more than just sex. I work with lots of them. My problem is that, the only men who are "ok" with a woman who has had two divorces are ones who either:<P>a) tend to take marriage lightly and who don't think two divorces are a big deal. This was the case with the guy I dated briefly a few months ago. His mom had two divorces. Instead of believing that divorce was "wrong" and something to be avoided at almost all cost (which I believe), he tended to think "oh well. It just didn't work out." He probably falls into the type that believes that finding someone new is the solution to his problems. Been there, done that.<P>b) those who aren't looking for a committed relationship anytime soon and have no problems having a fling with me till they get bored. This is probably true of many men who ask me out and know my background.<P>So, it will be a long,long time before I hook up with anyone. They would probably have to be widowed or prove to me that they pretty much dragged their naked body over broken glass to save their marriage, like I did with both of mine, and that their spouse was the one who initiated. Pretty high standards, you could say.<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited June 23, 2000).]

#660741 06/23/00 04:36 PM
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Just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth to this thread.<P>I've been separated since January (wife's idea, she had EA, & now PA). I wasn't even thinking about dating when I met this wonderful woman a month ago. We got to talking, we dated a few times, and I fell head over heels for her. Added bonus, I stopped caring about my wife and what she was up to. Instant pain relief!<P>Well, just this week my new girlfriend called it off. She dumped me in a very gentle, kind way, but wow did it hurt! All that pain I had buried came roaring back double. I guess I got a lesson on the meaning of the term "rebound". 4 months is way to early to start dating, after 15 years of marriage. I realy got my fingers burned.<P>Anyone else have similar experiences?

#660742 06/23/00 04:42 PM
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Just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth to this thread.<P>I've been separated since January (wife's idea, she had EA, & now PA). I wasn't even thinking about dating when I met this wonderful woman a month ago. We got to talking, we dated a few times, and I fell head over heels for her. Added bonus, I stopped caring about my wife and what she was up to. Instant pain relief!<P>Well, just this week my new girlfriend called it off. She dumped me in a very gentle, kind way, but wow did it hurt! All that pain I had buried came roaring back double. I guess I got a lesson on the meaning of the term "rebound". 4 months is way to early to start dating, after 15 years of marriage. I realy got my fingers burned.<P>Anyone else have similar experiences?

#660743 06/23/00 05:58 PM
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I need to know what EA and PA mean.<BR>Extramarital affair? Premarital affair/Postmarital affair? stbx, ow, om. Some of the other abreviations I've figured out. These are new.

#660744 06/23/00 06:08 PM
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TS<P>I think you have a negative outlook, and I also post a little too descriptive, or energetic. The chick in the office and I get along well, but we both agree that neither of us should marry until the kids are out of the house, or pretty close to it. Even then, is it worth marrying?<P>I actually am looking more for a companion than a spouse. Someone to go places with me, share some time together. The office chick actually has a BF, her affairee partner, and she is NOT the one. She actually turned the group down tonight, at the last minute, so no one went out.<P>It is a tricky question, but as sue said, a personal one. Your beliefs are what you have to live by, not everyone elses. It is a personal choice.<P>And I do think the office chick doesn't like being alone, so she is afraid to give up one relationship that is not going to go any where, to be totally free for the next. That is not good either. Her BF treats her just like she wants, but he himself isn't what she wants. But she is also lost in the world, not knowing what she wants out of life except her job and her kids.<P>TS, your past and your values are what is showing, and they are slightly negative towards relationship risk. There is always risk out there, and not being able to be hurt is not being able to give.<P>Sue appears to be very self confident, <BR>not harboring anger for being herself.<BR>whereas you appear to be lacking self confidence or are angry at yourself or others. You need to really think about this and try to overcome it, if you want a satisfying relationship, sexual or not, with someone. <P>That's my opinion. worth about 1/2 cent.<P>thl

#660745 06/23/00 06:11 PM
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cinderella,<BR> An EA means an Emotional Affair(no sex),and a PA is a Physical Affair(all the way).I know,we need an abbr.guide on this board. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P> --Murph

#660746 06/23/00 06:14 PM
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Cinderella,<P>EA = emotional affair, lacking the sexual part, but potentially more dangerous, as one can deny that anything is wrong without the sexual act.<BR>PA = Physical affair, usually subsequent to the EA part.<P>OM = Other man<BR>OW = other woman<BR>OP = other person (although not certain why we have this when we have the other two.)<P>ROTFLMAO = rolling on the floor laughing my [censored] off.<P>D = Divorce<BR>W = wife<BR>H = husband<BR>S = spouse<P>any more?<P>thl<P>

#660747 06/23/00 06:15 PM
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Cinderella, <BR>EA is an emotional affair, PA is a physical affair....<BR>Student, <BR>Please don't misunderstand me. It is just what is right for you may not be right for me. Many people live without a man-woman relatonship in thier lives and they are happy, emotionally healthy, etc...<BR>I am speaking only for myself, that I enjoy that one on one relationship, and the intimacy that goes with it. In my mind, if that is a persons choice, they are not missing anything because they are living their life as they choose. <P>And Guy E, yes I want him to have a brain, too! Hell, as long as I am fantasizing, make him handsome, rich, a one woman man, and has eyes only for me!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>Susan

#660748 06/23/00 08:12 PM
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Whenifindthetime,<P>hmmm. Angry at myself or others? It is pretty disappointing to see people who made a commitment for life to someone be so enthusiastic about moving on to someone new. The people who are NOT enthusiastic about their divorces don't come to this thread. I know of one man (Chris123) who has waited for nearly THREE years for his wife to return and hasn't divorced. NOW THAT IS A MAN. K, another long-timer, has raised his wife's child with the OM as his own, and last time I heard had not had sex with his wife in about two years but still loves his wife. THESE ARE THE MEN I LOOK UP TO HERE. These are the kind of men who have figuratively "dragged their naked bodies across broken glass" to save their marriages and will forever have my respect.<P>There are a couple of people who came here who actually seem to give a damn about themselves. The advice given them was basically "go for it" cause it feels good. Having casual sex is not a sign of confidence. It is a sign of selfishness. <P>There are plenty of people who "confidently" pursue their choices in life, oh, like some of the men and women who left their spouses for the OW/OM. Whether you like it or not, it IS the reason why so many people (what, a conservative 1000 posts per day?) come to the infidelity and divorce forums. <P>And what about Sue's boyfriend? Now that I've heard the story...He wants a commitment but she doesn't. She has the hots for him, and has been honest, to her credit. I guess he is free to make his own choices, however, if she has no plans for a commitment and admits to just being "in lust", then the THOUGHTFUL thing to do is let him find someone who IS ready for a commitment instead of wasting his time. He is 51 years old. It is not like he's got forever to wait, ya know. Like I said, far be it from me to spoil anyone's fun. <P>Now you and the office chick. You admit that she is a confused person. You don't feel bad adding to her confusion? Maybe she would be better served by someone who could be her FRIEND and not try to get in her pants just once. <P>"I am not an angry girl, but I think I've got some people fooled. When I say something they find hard to hear, they chalk it up to my anger and never to their own fear..."<P>

#660749 06/23/00 10:51 PM
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TS,,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Now you and the office chick. You admit that she is a confused person. You don't feel bad adding to her confusion? Maybe she would be better served by someone who could be her FRIEND and not try to get in her pants just once. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I sat and had a great 2 hour discussion with her about life, what she wants out of life, and what she wants as her next relationship.<BR>We didn't go out. My socialization with her is NOT to just plug a holen or is it to confuse her. Although I have dreamed about her in a naked sort of way, she is actually helping me through this D as well as I with life. I ask her the tough questions about what she is looking for.<P>As I sat and talked with her tonight, I felt NO sexual feelings for her at all. Even when we were discussing whom and what she wanted.<P>Actually, she was trying toget me to sleep with someone else just for me to satisfy my curiousity, even though I don't ever want to see this other person ever. I never did anything with this OP, but the op is sort of slutty anyway.<P>We are good friends, and she knows we are friends, and that's it right now. I'm sorry that I got excited in my post. I was starting to think about my possible next sexual encounter, and what form it may take.<P>That was the real point of my discussion.<BR>However, you can use the anger defense if you want, I have seen it before, but only you can look at yourself. I can oly suggest and observe and interpret. but remember, there are millions of individuals who decide for themselves, just like you can decide for yourself. And it won't make a damn bit of difference whether thye agree with you or not.<P>although I got good thoughts and opinions about my next sexual encounter, and what I should do, and how I should approach it.<P>take care.<P>thl<P><BR>

#660750 06/24/00 06:07 AM
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OK Guys,<P>Saw the Guy E comments. Hey, I used to be down there writing a letter to Santa, and I wanted a lot of things, and she didn't like it. Never got that before. Guess she was into the affair at that time. XGF's never complained. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] Big nose and ...tongue.<P>That and I do have a brain. I can send you a picture if you like. I usually keep it in a glass jar next to my bed.<P>I'm like Murph [Hey Buddy!] Not mentally ready to jump into the dating scene right now. I have some issues I have to resolve. Do I want to join the Columbia House CD club? Why can't anything be easy in this life?<P>In my job I get to see many people in a day. I am quite the social butterfly. I like to talk and goof around with the folks. Doesn't help that I am partial to white and what do nurses wear.. what? It seems that everyone likes me except my present W. Go figure.<P>I forget where I was going with this other than something about a man in a boat.<P>I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.<BR><P>------------------<BR>"It's not over till we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!" Blutto...Animal House 1984<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic

#660751 06/24/00 07:07 AM
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I can't help but voice my opinion...again on some of the threads here. There are some folks out there who are highly judgemental about others decisions to date or have sex or divorce. It is easy to sit back and judge others behavior when you don't have a clue to what that person has been through. Not everything is black and white; especially when you are dealing with humans. We are all not perfect; people make mistakes. <P>I feel compelled to share that I work very closely with folks who are going through divorce. It is always painful. The circumstances usually are heart breaking. I have learned that sometimes it is just the way things are. How can someone say, I would never have anything to do with a man who inititated a divorce...I found that comment incredibly judgemental. I also respect that person's views, but don't chastise someone else who doesn't agree with you. If you want to wait one month or 10 years before you embark on dating again...that is your business. I don't believe the man who waits six months is less of a good person opposed to one who waits three years. Some people may view the person waiting forever as pathetic. I am not saying that person is...it's just people view things differently. Do we all have to be martyrs? I know plenty of people who fell in love again and are very happy...there are plenty who aren't too...but that is the point, each of us has to make that choice. I think it is shallow and arrogant to judge another person because they don't share the same view as you.

#660752 06/24/00 09:57 AM
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Well Well Well. I leave for a few days and this post has changed quite a bit. Over 200 replies now. That was my goal. Are we going to hit 300 now??<P>Just wanted to thank everyone for making this post so thought-provoking.<P>I started this post when I was confused about dating again. For those who have followed it, I then moved to whether one should have sex. I think The Student may have been referring to me when she said some people have come to this post for some good advice on what to do and have been told to "go for it", etc. I did receive that advice as well as plenty that said "not to". But, I don't think that either advice should be labeled "good" or "bad".<P>I have found that I tend to follow the reasoning of Susan, Lonely Soul and Limerick. I want to do what is smart but I also believe that life is full of difficult choices and one must decide what is best for them at the time. I don't think anyone has the right answers and I feel that everyone should respect each others decisions.<P>I really wanted to hear what others were doing, how it worked out for them, what to worry about and avoid, and then, decide on my own what I should do.<P>I plan on being monogomous as well as the guy I am seeing. I do wonder if he is being honest. I think that is the problem of having sex too soon. You haven't known the person long enough to really know if they are being honest or are committed or just want sex. I don't even know what I truly want because it has been only a short time since my divorce. This is a confusing time for me and I think the smartest thing for me would have been to not get involved with someone. But, I did. I am not intentionally trying to hurt anyone or even myself. I pray each day and hope I make the right choice. I know I will make mistakes and what I am doing right now is probably a mistake. But, I just can't go forward in my life, never taking risks because of the potential (or probable) hurt, pain, etc.<P>I like Gina's closing quote. <P>Thanks again everyone. I hope everyone's life turns out the way they want it to. We all deserve it.<P><p>[This message has been edited by 711 (edited August 17, 2000).]

#660753 06/24/00 10:15 AM
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711, <P>I believe you are right on the money here. While I made my decision to date after my divorce was final, I didn't know at the time I would have the feelings I had with my friend. It happened, what happened after was with a lot of thought and concern. <BR>My friend is free to move on if he wants. He is not being held captive by me. He is also an adult, free to make his own choices. I have been very direct on where I am in my life, he has seen first hand some of the struggles, and he has been through many of them himself. <BR>The issue of dating after divorce is a tough and complicated one. Many are still working through issues within themselves and are not ready,many have chosen to live life without the opposite sex, many are just looking for someone to do things with, others are looking for "the one", etc. We are all human, with emotions and feelings. We must all find what works for us and be comfortable with that. <BR>I do agree with Student about divorce..often people jump from one relationship to another without putting the effort into trying to save their marriages...<BR>But I do feel that most of us here have come to this board because we despirately wanted to save our marriages. We have realized the issues standing in the way of having the kind of marriage we want, and are trying to improve ourselves. <BR>It is a two way street. Often, our spouses have already given up, and despite our efforts, they choose to go on. Do I feel sometimes like a failure?? Sure, especially when I look at my two wonderful children. <BR>But, my life has to go on. I spent over two years, thousands of dollars in counseling, and much time working on myself and trying to save my marriage. I guess that in my mind, this experience has made me grow, and if/when I choose to have another marriage, I will be able to give it the attention it deserves. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

#660754 06/24/00 04:30 PM
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Susan and whenifindthetime,<P>my humble apologies. I do feel strongly about this, but should have refrained from casting my judgement(s) on you. As for me, any more "rejection" at this point in my life would certainly push me off the deep end. I have suffered too much to ever go through it again. If you can muster the courage to take those risks again, you are much, much stronger than me. Best wishes...

#660755 06/24/00 06:51 PM
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TS -<P>OUCH! It can really hurt to have someone say that the one who initiates divorce does not care about the marriage. Well, I know this thread is about sex (and dating) but well, that hurt. I am sorry for Chris and K -- sorry K I didn't know where things were with you! But I am initiating divorce, because I cannot take being a doormat anymore. Plan A did not work. Plan B brought him back... just long enough to learn the jargon so he could manipulate me. Sex was FANTASTIC, esp since the physical affair. But when the emotional affairs kicked back up again... I am OUT. I am not going to be used by someone -- even if I have a piece of paper saying I am bound to him for LIFE! I was a virgin when I married him -- he was not. So I am an aberrant -- or whatever. I am very much committed to marriage and I did my best to save the one I had. But being used is too much.<P>And TS -- I don't hold it against you that you feel this way, but there is more to a marriage than sticking it out. I have to save myself and my kids. It is my last resort.<P>OK... enough said.

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