To All who are/heve been in the legal system:<P>I have a Gulf War imposed deadline. therefore I have to choose a plan of action<BR>betwen two alternatives:<BR>W is moving to another employer provided house. she says I can't come with her. So,<BR>do I<P>1) Plan A to the last minute, and hope she will change, BUT loose in the eyes of the court for abandonment if she won't let me move in.<P>OR<P>2) Plan A, ask her with 3 weeks to go, and if she still says no, go through mediation, and file for divorce so as to retain good father standing in the court system for future legal gains, that is better shared custody arrangement.<P>From those who have been there, what say you?<BR>And why?<P>thl<BR>(BTW, this $uck$)

{{{{{{{{{{thl}}}}}}}}},<P>You are in a most unenviable position...<P>You say "...loose in the eyes of the court for abandonment if she won't let me move in."...<BR>...I would seek legal counsel on this....<BR>...if she keeps you from seeing your own children... how can this be abandonment?... If anything... she could be brought up on charges!? NO?<P>I'm not sure how legal services are provided through military benefits... but if you are free to go to any attorney... and you need to <B>protect</B> yourself... I usually make the recommendation of finding a <B>good</B> attorney by starting off is at the <A HREF="http://lawyers.martindale.com/marhub/form/by.html" TARGET=_blank>Martindale-Hubbell Lawyer Search</A> site. Do a search within your county... look for only "family law" specialists(>80% in divorce/custody/etc.)... make sure they do a lot of "family law committee work"... if they know the judges all the better... You can normally find a few that will give initial counseling free of charge.<BR><A HREF="http://www.uslaw.com" TARGET=_blank>USLaw.com</A> (an alternative search site)<P>"...mediation... to fil(ing) for divorce..."<BR>...usually takes more than 3 weeks...<BR>...again... the advice of an attorney is going to best help you here.<P>In all cases... Plan A!<BR>Even filing for divorce (if needed) is just a necessity!... a necessary LB!<P>In part, for me, it was a moral decision...<BR>Having kids raised by an immoral man...<BR>...marriage buster... family wrecker...<BR>...who helped my why stray (yes she is culpable too)...<BR>...as my W was threatening to take them away from me...<BR>...made my decision easy!<BR>I was going to do everything to raise my kids... myself if I had to!<P>This may, or may not, be an option for you!<BR>How much is custody important to you?...<BR>...a very hard question!<P>You have much to consider...<P>Pray on this... <P> <P>Jim

Thats a tuff one, my x just wanted out so she left and there was no question as to who would raise the kids.<P>I know you are Plan Aing but, and this would be huge LBer, but ask the employer why they are supporting the breakup of your marriage by allowing her to move without you. Maybe threaten them with alienation of affection by them supplying her with a new house.<P>I don't know if this would work or not, I guess I'm grasping at straws. If she moves without you, your marriage is likely done, but this would probably make her hate you even more if you screwed with her employment.<P>I had considered this with my x. She worked second shift and there must have been no supervision at all as she told me they used to just sit and talk at night. Then when she came home she would call him at work. Must be tuff work on that second and third shift.

1) its NOT the military, it is boarding school education.<P>I supported the move in March because the kids have rooms in the current house that can only fit a bed and a dresser. I also thought she would come around in Plan A. I thought she would, but having an addictive type of personality, she could not give him up on his own.<P>2) The OM has gone (I think) to Kosovo for at least 1 month. I thought I was seeing signs of Plan A working, however, tonight did not look that way. Can't tell if it is withdrawal or W is more determined now that there is no evidence of OM (in other words, can make me look bad without having OM make her look bad) She does not talk to me while at home, even if I try to engage her in normal conversation.<P>3) I did talk today to legal counsel. The money is no problem. There is no assets other that tons of cash. As far as custody, that is where I want to look good, because unless she agrees to shared custody in mediation, she gets sole custody, unless she voluntarily gives it up. She wants custody.<P>So my current view is I will discuss, if her view is still negative, unable to work on the marriage, then I go straight to mediation, and can be divorced by the end of July, 3 weeks with an uncontested Plan.<P>That will either get her off the fence, or really understand the effects of what she wants to do.<P>Any other helpful suggestions? Any other viewoints?<P>BTW, the couple who had lived in this house before us had kids just like us, only 10 years older, W working at school, H working in Corporate world, also did not make it the same way. Is it the house or the jobs?<P>thl

thl,<P>Immediately get some of that "tons" of cash into a Trust for the kids!!!<P>TODAY!<P>In the divorce it will be split...<BR>...and (your W) sounding like mine...<BR>...she will not contribute!<P> <P>Jim

When I.... (your name is so long) ,<P>I wish I could offer some advice but I can't. SO instead I am just here to say good luck and sending a prayer your way. Jim is great with advice as with the others who have replied. <P>Dana<BR>

actually,<P>the cash is both of ours. I don't care about the money. I can make tons more where that came from. I will split it 50/50 and then she can't complain about being poor (she likes to do that) after the D, I will put<BR>insurances, etc into trusts, so she can't get<BR>anything else from me. I also had my parents put their millions into trusts so that if they were to pass before this is final, I would not loose that. Also, the company I work for is just about sold, so I will get a 6 figure payout pretax, which she said I can keep (we'll see if that holds true, but if not, no big deal!) I also get a year salary if laid off, so that will be my first real vacation into three years.<P>Anyway, I told her this morning, I had no choice in the eyes of the court, but to do this before the month was out. so we split the cash, calculator 5 seconds. Split the hard assets (each has own car, 5 seconds)<BR>and negotiate for time with the kids, holidays, and support (3 hours max)<P>file, uncontested, 31 days later done.<P>It could be done so fast that she won't know what hit her! And I warned her about this earlier.<P>BUT she said she was unwilling to try, she couldn't, she is empty inside, it was too late for me to try. she agreed she had been unhappy for a long time, but could never tell me. She said she tried by complaining, and she exagerates when she complains. (but the BPD got in the way.)<P>Anyway, this board has been great, I love you all, revenge will be living a better life, and don't feel sorry for me, feel sorry for the kids. <P>BTW, she denies she has anything to hide, but moved the OM calling card from in plain view to hidden in her purse when I got suspicious about the phone calls. See my section in<BR>50 signs of an affair.<P>thl

How does one do this without LB'ing? that is hard. I tried to get her see that she hadn't given us a fair chance, I want a fair chance, and she couldn't do it. She said the time is here, we just didn't make it, and I said it was hard to try when one person kept running away every weekend.<P>I have told her several times, and she agrees that we know what are problems are, but she refuses to give it a chance, for fear of failure. I encouraged her to go to a counselor because she was upset and crying all the time. She said she did it to satisfy me, so now she has done it, and now she wants her freedom, and the kids.<P>She also said the kids wouldn't be screwed up at all. Hah! just to give up without trying, to do incur parental separation and then move to a new house! and then to add baby sitters on top of that for her job!<P>Yikes, she has some learning to do. She was also pissed that I would tell the kids MY side of the story of why we broke up.

thl,<BR>It sounds like the affair is still going on to me. She may be hedging her bet since om is out of the country (maybe a tank will fall on him ) and is afraid he won't be back for a while so she is keeping you on the back burner.<P>My x never actually tried either to save the marriage either. First her and om gave the respective spouse 3 months to work on the marriages. Meanwhile they did nothing to help the situation like stay away from each other.<P><BR>Then when x caught om cheating on her with his w (imagine that!) she tried to come back, but he sweet talked her in to coming back within 5 hrs.<P>Then when she brought up joint counsleing again and I asked how we would do that when she was livng with om, she accused me of saying no I didn't want to.<P>When om dumped her, she tried about a week and that was it.<P>She also bought into the "kids won't be hurt." Her lawyer of all people told her that.<P>She also was mad because I told the kids the truth, the clean version as I left out mention of om. She made it sound like she was going on an extended shopping trip.<P>I agree, hide the money now and avoid the problems later. Get her agreements in writing! My x went from wanting nothing to half and more of everything. She finally settled on less than half.<P>She also blames me for her having to work full time, because I want all this money ($400/month). She still doesn't feel she should have to pay child support. Meanwhile I provide everything for the kids. She takes them shopping every weekend but now doesn't even buy them anything.<P><BR>Sorry, got off on my own diatribe there.<P>It sounds like you do have your plans laid out. They sound like sound to me.<P>Good luck!<P>Bob

thl,<P>I'm glad for you money isn't an issue...<P>...for me it is...<BR>...since I (now unemployed) would have to foot the whole education tab for my kids...<BR>...and start my retirement planning almost from scratch. <P>Is custody and issue for you?<BR>...if it is... do check out <A HREF="http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/" TARGET=_blank>Fathers Rights To Custody(FRTC)</A>. (Caution... this is a very <B>anti</B>-marriage site)<P>Otherwise...<BR>...if love is still there for your W...<BR>...go for the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>... as long as you can... and hold back the divorce.<P>As far as "that I would tell the kids MY side of the story of why we broke up."...<BR>...not being vindictive... and telling your kids to keep on loving their mom with all their hearts... <B>is important</B>. Age specific discussions are a must.<P>Good luck... <P>Jim

Plan A is still there, just harder to do.<BR>She won't let me touch her, I touched her foot at dinner last night, and she moved to the other side of the table.<P>I told her and will tell her again, <BR>all I want from her is a serious attempt<BR>at working on the marriage. That's all<BR>I want. If we can't make it then, then we did our best, like TL and EM. At least they tried, maybe not as strongly as some would have liked, but they tried.<P>If she hits rock bottom, then maybe, but we will see. She forgets, I have been where she is myself. I know what she is thinking and it is looks like cotton candy fantasy. I was trying to run away from myself. couldn't do it, noone can.<P>PS. I happened to flip through cable last night and came up with the last scene of top gun, and she came running in, and was in fantasy land. Looking great for her military guy to come home to.<P>BTW, this board is addictive, because there is so much great conversation and knowledge. You guys have contributed alot, and everyone else benefits from it.<P>I have told them that I love their mom, I tell it to her when they are in the room. I do, I just don't give up. I am not being vindictive, just letting my W know that it won't get to be the version she wants them to here after she edits my version.<P>and from her actions and what she says, it what she wants. I am just helping it along but make certain I have my rights.<P>thl<BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited June 02, 2000).]

For what it is worth:<P>Everyone that I have talked to says not to leave the kids. I would do everything in my power to stay with them. The person that leaves (or is forced to) loses custody in most cases. She is not looking after their best interests. You have to.<P>How about a pre-emptive strike? YOU take the kids and move out. At least where I am, you have as much right to the children until their is a filed custody plan as the mother. <P>Desperate times call for drastic measures

Kidnapping is not my style.<P>I will negotiate a realistic, settlement to the best of my abilities. My MIL did minor kidnapping to get husband's attention. she never learned to discuss, just act out. My wife did not learn to negotiate adult to adult, but can only relate to kids. I continue to see it still this morning.<P>thl

WIFTT,<P>Just wanted to say that I think that you are doing some a wonderful thing,in spite of your situation.Keep telling your children that you love their Mother,that is the best thing that a H can do for their kids.<P>This is not what you want,but you are in a tough situation and to a degree your hands are tide. <P>Still to this day I could never understand how one sp can leave the other and their children,not see them barely talk w/them and this is supose to be "Working on the Marriage".........what a crock of bologna.<BR>I see it as running and there is not a thing that I can do about it.(oh,sorry,just a little venting.)<P>I do understand how hard it is to try and try to reason and get the other person to see that "they" are not "Given it a fair chance" and not "working" on the problems.<P>I believe that actually if I were to do nothing......... he would be quite happy w/living the way we have been for the rest of our lives.I will not do this.<BR>(I really think that bc he knows that I do love him,and that he is not thinking future of "him" being involved w/another person that that makes me automaticaly feel the same way.)<P>I want another relationship,I want another marriage,a best friend,companion, partner,lover and everything that goes w/all of that.I cant' do this still married.<P>Oh well,just my ramblings.........Take it easy.<P>Hang in there. <P>Gina<BR>

W<BR>I've certainly been there done that. Yup, been divorced, huge custody battle. $20,000 worth of debt, and yes I pay child support. I have to warn you that if one of the partners is going to get nasty, you will lose everything if you try to play nice. I was naive enough to tell the truth during the divorce, and I got rear ended by a jerk who lied through his teeth about everything. Be very careful!! Visitation with your children will set a precedent for how much custody visitation you will get later in the final decree, and it is imperative that you get a preliminary visitation agreement drawn up ASAP. Ask for a lot. Evening dinner visits or after school - offer to watch them if your shifts are different. I don't understand how she would automatically get custody - don't they have father's rights where you live. My x got custody and he has a federal criminal record. (I did not do anything wrong - he just fought longer and dirtier) Anyway get the mediator to help you get lots of hours of visitation - they're your children, too.<P>Hang in there!<P>Harlequin