I know, I know, I know it is for the best, but how it hurts! <p>[This message has been edited by popeye (edited June 11, 2000).]

Oh, Popeye...<P>I can't believe this. I was hoping it would have the opposite effect on him like it did on Lor's Guard. I am so sorry, so sorry.<P>This back and forth push-pull is so typical. He's angry right now. When he gets over being angry you will probably have moved on by then...? He's making a huge mistake he will undoubtedly regret. They often do.<P>Again, I just don't know what to say....<P>Catnip =^^=<BR>

Popeye, he's not Plan B-ing you, he'd have to do Plan A first, and it is pretty obvious that never happened.<P>He did get slammed pretty hard on the boards, even before he announced you are his wife, since his attitude was so selfish. Then when he said you were his wife, and the rest of the details he was leaving out were known...cripes.<P>I can't advise you to do what I did. I just wanted out when Guard left me again and I think part of me wanted to burn both his & my bridges. I had done a really good Plan A for some long months, couldn't get the hang of Plan B, with the kids. The fact that our marriage is near reconciliation is just a miracle of God's grace and Guard truly turning around, not anything good I did the last couple months. <P>If there is advice here from me, let poorme go wallow in his misery--and pray for him everyday.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Lor,<P>I was just being sarcastic about the "plan B". Just meant that he didn't want to see me now.<P>I must let him go. It's cool. I love him and will always want the best for him, but doing the best for me means not feeding into this destruction and not allowing it to bring me down. The depression and negativity is too much for me to bear. I don't want to lose what joy I still have in life. Maybe I am selfish too and just want to bail, but if he showed just one ounce of REAL regret, I'd give everything for that man.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{popeye}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>It's no secret I was mad as hoptoads when I had given up on the marriage and suddenly Guard wanted me back. It took him 3 months to convince me--during which I served him divorce papers, and it's been another month--and counting--working out the details. <P>There was a time he sounded much like poorme, although he never came to MB at that time. I guess that is why I identify with you, and know what a terrible place it is that you are in. Although, I have to say, you sound good.<P>Take care of you.

Popeye,<P>Sorry to hear the latest development between you and <I>poorme</I>. I was going to respond in your previous thread (about last minute doubts), that manybe you should put the divorce on a back-burner and trying a last ditch attempt of reconcilliation with <I>poorme</I>, not solely for his benefit but for you to be 100% sure which way you want to go, and remove future guilt feelings and <I>what if's</I>?<BR>A reconcilliation attempt could still be made, but only on fair terms, which means that both of you have to agree to and define the ground rules.<P>Though I think that the latest development, it is now up to him to do the next move! Does he want your marriage or not? My suggestion would be to let him make that decission, put the divorce on hold from your end and give him some space to figure out what he wants. It will be up to him whether to pursue the divorce road or the reconcilliation road, however, to take the reconcilliation road he must agree to end his EMA's and whatever other ground rules you would set as minimum requirements for trying and vice versa.<P>Best of hopes to you and your family.

(((((Popeye)))) - My heart goes out to you - even though you know you have done the best you could - I understand the decision you made and your wanting to move on. Like your H, mine never showed any regret or remorse either. He tried to come back once, when he was afraid OW gave him AIDS, since her 2nd H was a drug abuser. His coldness and cruelty to me and his utter lack of regret or feeling for the pain I endured were worse than the affair. To realize that the person you love with all your heart is not who you thought he was is a pain that is undescribable. I know you understand what that means. I felt relief when I finally came to the realization that there was no way I could ever take him back, after everything he had done and said. But that didn't make it any less painful. Giving up on someone I had spent half my life with is the hardest thing I have ever done. I still have bad days when I long to see him again - but I know that he is not the same person he was when we met and married. He is a stranger to me now. It's as if the man I loved has died and there is now someone else inhabiting his body.<P>You are doing what you know is right for you. Knowing this doesn't make it any easier. My prayers are with you - you are one strong lady, and will overcome this setback and start a new, happier chapter of your life. God Bless you!!!<p>[This message has been edited by Lady M (edited June 06, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lor (Lor):<BR>[B]It's no secret I was mad as hoptoads when I had given up on the marriage and suddenly Guard wanted me back. It took him 3 months to convince me--during which I served him divorce papers, and it's been another month--and counting--working out the details. <P>There was a time he sounded much like poorme...[B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Lor,<P>How is it that you turned your attitude around and decided to work things out? Is Guard really changing that self-centered attitude? I think of my H and see his selfishness in everything he says. I don't see any hope for him at all. It gives me hope that people like this can turn around though.<P>Just saw H and now I understand where the money fixation is coming from. The OC's mom is going after him for child support. He said she was financially stable and didn't want anything from him. He said she just wanted to have a baby because it was her "last chance." ha!<P>This whole situation is not something I want to deal with for years to come. <P>I think my H sees that I am not the bad guy. He knows his life could be hell. What wife would be as accomodating knowing what I know about what he's been doing? I think he feels so much guilt that he can't fathom that I'd even want him back. I think he sees the hard work ahead and doesn't think he can do this. He can't even see me cry! (cant blame him. I feel the same).<P>I know that it is the right decision for me to move on. Love be damned! I can hold that love in my heart easier without him.

((((Popeye))))<P>I just went back and read the posts from Poorme. I am so sorry! Honestly, I think perhaps you are better off without him. He is obviously not ready to deal with his own problems at this point, much less the problems between the two of you. On another post, you intimated to me that you held back from your H and you think this is why you are now getting divorced. I think you are wrong. He is obviously not really ready for a mature relationship with any woman...even you. Someone who truly had your best interests at heart would have understood your reservations about having another baby, placing your trust in someone else's hands, everything. Please, try not to beat yourself up. It seems your H has already done that. I hope I don't seem too harsh, but his attitude really upset me.<P><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

{{{Popeye}}}<BR>I can truly understand your pain and indecision. My stbx has remained my friend throughout, but I see that it is because I was giving more to keep it at that level. He is alot like Poorme. And when the "mean" words were said by him they cut me like a knife because it wasn't the man I had known for the last 12yrs. I eventually realized that our relationship was not that of married partners, it was me being the Authority Figure and him being the Young Son. I hated being put in that role, plus it meant that I didn't trust him most of the time. <BR>Sorry I'm rambling about me. I just felt like I should tell you that I can empathize with your feelings. <P>You sound strong, keep up that attitude.

Popeye,<BR>You asked: <<How is it that you turned your attitude around and decided to work things out? Is Guard really changing that self-centered attitude?>><P>My long-winded answer:<BR>I worked hard for the marriage from 6/98-10-99. I always "knew" the committment, the love, the marriage, the family were the right thing. Guard just kept coming home & leaving. He said everything all the other betrayers say. The last time he left in Jan, he said he'd be divorcing me. I said that was it. I'd never turned my back on him like that during the previous year +. I didn't want his middle of the night calls or visits--felt that there was no reason for me to comfort him or be his friend with the way he had treated me, if I couldn't be his wife, I sure didn't want to be his "friend" or "lover". I also developed a relationship with someone new (don't bring in someone else to a terrible situation--ouch). I don't know exactly how that all turned him around, except that he had some very dark nights, he reached out for help from our Christian counselor, he made his peace with God and stopped behaving so very badly. The problem was that in Nov, he had told me he had made his peace with God and I let him move home. It wasn't good for either of us, and I simply did not believe that another reconciliation would be any different.<P>Fast forward to March, I'd served the divorce papers, but felt unsure. Guard was still treating me immensely better, lovingly, the OW seemed to be out of the picture at long last, but my EA was creating a toll on both of us. I began no contact with OM, OM has continued it.<P>Guard now has about 5 months of good behavior under his belt. We've continued to be in touch nearly everyday--for kids or something. My trust is coming back, my love probably was always there, but my lovebank had taken a bad drain and I couldn't feel it, I no longer wanted to love him, I'd seen him walk out the door so many times, it felt like cruelty. Add in my 12 & 14 year old daughters watching & learning...I wanted to model commitment, not victimhood. I've seen very little of that side of him in the past 5 months--he's doing well breaking those patterns. It's just a time thing.<P>Because of my actions during this last separation, he has concerns about me. He kept going back to the OW, he thinks I may backslide as well, & I have with some phone calls, but not for a couple weeks.<P>If poorme did turn around, as you say, it would be different, you'd give him a chance. I gave Guard so many chances...and it seems like, until I gave up and he found what life was without me loving him, those chances were wasted...except I don't believe that loving someone is ever waste. <P>And I have to say, my red flag warning system is hair-trigger sensitive, he changes his schedule, isn't where he told me he'd be and I'm ready to give up again. This morning he said something that led me to jump to the conclusion he might be seeing his co-worker OW today, possible spending time in a car driving together, and my heart leadened. But I just asked, he answered no and kissed me and told me he loves me. It is by no means easy...and we still have 2 households and other issues to settle.<P>I'm not saying you are making the wrong decision, Popeye. If he doesn't change and you can't stand him this way, there isn't much hope. I guess what I am saying is that I am glad that I gave the marriage the time that I did in Plan A. When it came time when I felt "done", I knew I had tried everything to save my marriage. It was a good feeling. Guard turning around at the time he did was a surprise to me, I even felt that it was a trick to make me be the one to end the marriage, so he could say he tried--you are very familiar with the switch-around-blame game, I think, with poorme. If that was Guard's intent, it no longer is, that I feel sure of.<P>I do know you can't make it work by yourself, but you can keep the possibility open all by yourself, you are the only one who knows if you are at your limit. Most of my friends, family say that they never could do what I have done. I doubt I would have done it either--if I had known the length of time and pain. Will my marriage be worth it? Life just doesn't come with any guarantees...I'm willing to take the chance. And that's all there really is.