What gets me is that it seems like in most of these posts - it is ONE person ALWAYS trying to work it out. I am that person. For 6 years it is ME who communicates (with no one communicating back) ME, resolving the conflicts (or letting them go since he won't talk) - ME working on the intimacy thing (or adjusting to the fact he doesn't care for it) - ME working hard to keep this family with 3 children together and it seems so darn hard to convince yourself that its the "right thing to do" when you don't have the other partner working with you, but ignoring you and your needs. And its ME who doesn't dare to divorce because I know the pain and heartache it causes onesself and children. Sometimes its too overwhelming to search for those answers that will never come. What do you do when your at a dead end? And you want your KIDS happy? and your LIFE normal? but it NEVER will be.

Cndy ... I responded to your post in the other topic ... my answer there applies to this message, too.<p>According to every relationship book I've read 90% of the time it *is* only one spouse who recognizes that there is a problem and that one spouse is the only one willing to work on the relationship. You need to decide if you are willing to do it, and you need to decide how hard you want to work at it and how long you are willing to do that work without seeing any results or only small results. Read the books and try the strategies. Other people have found that they work. I am hoping they will work for me.<p>I especially think that "The Five Love Languages" and "His Needs, Her Needs" could be helpful to you.<p>terri

thanks again - I will buy the books this evening. You know; its such a tough decision - becuase for me; I want my family to ALWAYS be a family - and how long is too long? Is it more damaging long term for the kids to stay in unhappy/unhealthy relationships? Do we really know? Essentially - we have been (maybe all this is just me) having problems for about 5 years. I have been VERY patient because two of my kids (my 15 and 11 yr old) are his stepkids and I know it takes time adjusting to that. BUT HOW LONG "IS" too long? I guess what really bugs me is that sometimes I feel like he CAUSES more problems; that the house is much more happy and smooth going WITHOUT him there (when he's at work, etc) and everyone seems unstressed and happy till he walks in the door and we're all on eggshells again. Some mornings I ask myself WHY I let him let OUR lives be that way. I think he is either not totally happy with himself or something (I think he has some past ghosts or something) because he has had a chip on his shoulder for about 5 years and I'm about to chop it off! I guess questioning MYSELF as being a good parent (by staying?) is better than being a good wife?

Cndy,<p>Yea, you're right. It's always one person. Today is our 20th anniversary. I came home with a card for my wife. She was on the computer and never even spoke when I came home. So I left for a while to avoid saying something wrong.<br>When I cam back she was on the phone and stayed on it for a couple of hours. Finally I couldn't take it and by the way I looked she could tell I wanted her to get off. We talked. I asked why she had treated me so well a few days ago and now this again. That old answer, "Because I still feel a certain way." I tell you it makes you want to go stark, raving crazy.<br>Then she says I need to move out as I agreed I would. She says I won't be able to live with her in her present state without getting upset and that she needs to be able to think clearly. She said she is not going with me and the boys on Thanksgiving to see my folks, and that the anniversary actually sparked negative feelings in her. I can't seem to win.<br>I feel like such an idiot. I thought she had reached some coping point a few days ago, at least gotten to where some things could be handled. But here we are again. It's like spending all you strength to climb a hill only to slide back to the bottom.<br>I cannot tell you how drained out I feel. Yes, she speaks in positive terms about the separation. Not separation for divorce but separation for breathing space. But it kills me about this "I feel a certain way" stuff. She feels a certain way but never does anything to cause herself to feel different.<br>I'm spent tonight. Better not say much else right now. I can't think clearly.

Bruce, keep your faith - it sounds like she "really" is confused about things. Whether its something or someone sparking those negative feelings inside her - she does sound confused. At least your getting some positive responses from her at times - don't you think that shows she still cares in the relationship and is totally AFRAID to let it go. Thats positive too. I know how you feel though - sometimes Ifeel sorry for my husband because he seems like it saddens him and bothers him if I close him out (which I do to avoid screaming about my feelings to him) becuase the next day or so when I am over it and treat him just as nicely as ever - it makes him happy. I ALWAYS though do tell him that no matter what the problems are that I still love him and always will want to keep that on top so he KNOWS that just because your angry or hurt, it doesn't mean the love is gone. Its hard Bruce, very hard and when your being hurt by someone you love so much and are TRYING so hard - they can just kill you with their little comments as if they just don't give a darn. (from people I know, they do tell me that separation in lots of cases DOES help though, because it makes the person realize HOW to miss you and what you had) although, I am afraid to try that because I don't want to lose my husband. I know how you feel and I pray that she turns around for you!@

Cndy,<p>I've heard that separation helps, also. My own sister told me that if her husband had separated when she asked him to (to get a breather from the rampages he went on) she thinks they might be together now.<br>My wife said she thinks it best for me to be the one to go. She said if she does it she doesn't know how long it would take her, but that if I do it she thinks she'll be able to see quicker what she wants to do. She also said that she can't respond the way I would like consistently, so my presence in the house bothers her because I remind her of what I need but she can't always give.<p>Unlike you with your husband she does not tell me she loves me at any time. She said that 20 years is a long time and that she finds it very difficult to come to terms with what she describes as having "been burnt" over that time.<br>It just bothers me so much that she just seems to grasp that and not let it go. She said I don't even have to convince her that I want to make things different and better. She says she can see that I do, and she can see that I'm trying very hard to be a better husband. But that just because I've changed that doesn't erase those years.<br>I said that I know it doesn't erase them. I would not even insult her by acting as if I could erase them. But we have two boys and she has a husband that is willing to do whatever it takes to avoid mistakes of the past. How anyonce can seriously consider tossing that without making an effort at resolution escapes me.<br>Of course to her perhaps separation is an effort at resolution. She has told me that if she really wanted to go she would have been gone by now. I don't know. It all gets so confusing it makes it hard to put a positive spin on things. Especially when only a few days ago you felt like things were working out.<br>Anyway, Cndy, I wanted to tell you about a quote in the book, "Divorce Busting" that reminded me of something you said. On page 100 a subheading says, "Why do I always have to be the one to put effort into the marriage"?<br>It's a pretty good book. You might want to check it out. The author is Michele Weiner-Davis.

Bruce, thanks for the response. There is one thing I want to say and this is ONLY my opinion (I have no idea if its right or wrong) - but in the shoes you are in right now; I would NOT (I repeat) would NOT leave my home. That is your home. Your wife, your kids, and your home. She can say whatever she wants now - but 2 - 3 weeks down the road you'll be hearing "YOU are the one that left your kids" - I wouldn't do it. I did recommend this to a friend of mine who is a male (he and I went to school together and he was discussing with me some problems him and his wife are having and she is rejecting him, etc - he felt like she wanted him to walk). I told him NOT to leave his home and his kids that if SHE wanted out and wanted to be the one apart; let her leave. You don't want to leave your home, you don't want to leave your wife, and you don't want to leave your kids - so I wouldn't. In his case, he didn't. They got in a fight and she asked him to leave. He said just what I told him, that he was not the one who wanted out and he was NOT leaving his family. He said it shocked her (felt he would go) and that ever since that day, she has completely turned around and started getting along with him MUCH better. Who knows why or if she just thought he REALLY must care a lot more than I felt if he won't leave.<br>Not only that but if you look at it another way. Say you leave. You miss your home. You miss your kids, your wife, your bathroom, your kitchen, your yard. If you do NOT leave and you tell her to go if someone is going - SHE now has to be the one faced with the loss of kids, loss of her home, her yard, you, and all those senses of security around her. She will MISS THE HECK out of them soon. Believe me. If she is allowed to keep the house and you walk - she has all her security (except you) and could easily just move along. Theres one loss to get used to versus many. Women love their homes - and you don't realize how much until you don't have it. Just some advice - but I would not leave.<br>When me and my first husband divorced I was forced to sell my home due to lack of finances and it was the biggest MISTAKE I made. I missed that life so badly - and I swear I will never leave my home again. If something happened with me and my husband and he left - I believe in my heart I could move on - I'd still have everything (and my kids) that are so precious to me. It would be EASIER. If I had to give it all up - I'd darn sure think longer and harder about it. I know its a long shot - but think about it. <p>I dont know how much about you and her I really know - but do you think she could be seeing someone or someone is "helping" her along with her decision? Don't let anyone run you away from what YOU want. If she doesn't want it - let her give it all up. It might give her a change of heart. <br>Dont get mad at me. I just want to help.

Cndy,<p>I'm not mad. And the answer to your question about my wife seeing someone is no. Of course I can't be 100% certain but I don't believe she is having any sort of affair. we've talked about that. She has told me she is seeing no one. Also my wife has always been serious about God. She says that having sex is more than having sex. It's a bond between the people having it and she has no interest in creating any bonds she doesn't intend to nurture.<br>When she came home last night she seemed to be sympathetic and wanted to explain to me why she thought I should be the one to go for a while. I understood but said I just have one question: Is there anything in you that leans toward wanting to work out our problems? She said yes, but that she can't do it while she feels pressure from me. That was in reference to last night when she was spending her usual time on the computer and she asked if I was expecting any sex. I said it would be nice, but she had to throw in that she didn't really feel like it. This ticked me off and I could barely contain myself from arguing. She said this is a reason why I should get away from her for a while because while she is in this frame of mind she says she will be making me angry all the time and that she really, despite how it appears to me, does not want to do that.<br>I have decided that I am going to leave and go to a nearby hotel. I will still be looking out for things and seeing my boys. She will have the space she needs to think without my presence to pressure her.<br>I think she will find out some things. It will not be easy to take care of the boys and their needs, cleaning and more because she works. It's a formidable job with both of us there. Also I know she will be getting some effects from the boys about my absence that will not be positive. She loves them very much and I know it will trouble her to see it.<br>Believe me I'm not making this decision lightly. I can't communicate everything about my situation via posts, just suffice it to say that I think this is the best thing I can do right now. I'll be playing it by ear.<br>My wife told me last night that she has some resentments in her that have become deeply ingrained and are very hard to release. She asked me to think of her like a sick person who needs some recooperation. She said she knows that people can and have been helped with problems and overcome them through counseling and other avenues. But she said that she is not yet ready to do those things and just wants to feel unpressured for a while. So I am going to give her this.<br>Now the only pressure she'll have to deal with is that from what the circumstances speak to her without me and what God speaks to her. And I ask Him to do that daily.

Cndy,<p>I'm not mad. And the answer to your question about my wife seeing someone is no. Of course I can't be 100% certain but I don't believe she is having any sort of affair. we've talked about that. She has told me she is seeing no one. Also my wife has always been serious about God. She says that having sex is more than having sex. It's a bond between the people having it and she has no interest in creating any bonds she doesn't intend to nurture.<br>When she came home last night she seemed to be sympathetic and wanted to explain to me why she thought I should be the one to go for a while. I understood but said I just have one question: Is there anything in you that leans toward wanting to work out our problems? She said yes, but that she can't do it while she feels pressure from me. That was in reference to last night when she was spending her usual time on the computer and she asked if I was expecting any sex. I said it would be nice, but she had to throw in that she didn't really feel like it. This ticked me off and I could barely contain myself from arguing. She said this is a reason why I should get away from her for a while because while she is in this frame of mind she says she will be making me angry all the time and that she really, despite how it appears to me, does not want to do that.<br>I have decided that I am going to leave and go to a nearby hotel. I will still be looking out for things and seeing my boys. She will have the space she needs to think without my presence to pressure her.<br>I think she will find out some things. It will not be easy to take care of the boys and their needs, cleaning and more because she works. It's a formidable job with both of us there. Also I know she will be getting some effects from the boys about my absence that will not be positive. She loves them very much and I know it will trouble her to see it.<br>Believe me I'm not making this decision lightly. I can't communicate everything about my situation via posts, just suffice it to say that I think this is the best thing I can do right now. I'll be playing it by ear.<br>My wife told me last night that she has some resentments in her that have become deeply ingrained and are very hard to release. She asked me to think of her like a sick person who needs some recooperation. She said she knows that people can and have been helped with problems and overcome them through counseling and other avenues. But she said that she is not yet ready to do those things and just wants to feel unpressured for a while. So I am going to give her this.<br>Now the only pressure she'll have to deal with is that from what the circumstances speak to her without me and what God speaks to her. And I ask Him to do that daily.

I think you are doing the right thing - and its what YOU think you have to do. You know the situation MUCH better than the rest of us. I do agree one one BIG issue ; I feel she will see a lot of things will change without you there. Like you said the house cleaning, the yardwork, the daily things the kids came to YOU for. And you are right - they will start getting some serious feedback from the children. That will truly get to her. I think you are on the road to doing the right thing for yourself and I pray for you too!

Cndy and Bruce,<br> Just started browsing the forum for issues similar to mine (I always suspected I wasn't alone in this situation!) Mind if I join in for a few comments?<br> I went through the same decision about staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids. Are they better off? Everything I've heard indicates that the scars of divorce are so deep, that only really abusive situations warrant that kind of separation. That's pretty frightening, so I decided to stick it out.<br> My kids are now 17 and 14, they show signs of wear and tear from our "dysfunctional" situation, but I'm hoping they'll be understanding about it later, maybe even learn from the situation (although, I obviously didn't.) They seem to see my husband much the way I do (a self-centered "taker".) My husband says I've made them that way. He can't see that his lack of giving has created the same relationship with them that it did with me. <br> My oldest is off to college, soon, and I'm re-evaluating the relationship. I waiver between staying in this unloving marriage or suffering through the hurt (and other "costs") of divorce to be free from the demands of an unhappy relationship.<br> Cndy's comments about refusing to leave, hit me like a brick. If my husband said those things I might reconsider as well. But the fact is, he would say those things in order to avoid the expenses and responsibilites of moving out! So that doesn't help me. If he moved out like Bruce did, at least I would finally think he was putting some credence into my needs.<br> How goes it with you two? Any suggestions for my new period of re-evaluation?

Bruce, Jade here. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME! I agree with Cindy! How convenient it would be for YOU to go, jthat way she doesn't have to DO anything, take any responsibility in moving out, look for a new place, relocate, heck of course it would be easier for YOU to go. NOT......and if she has any secret plans down the road, who's gonna get the shaft?<br>Who is pressuring her, you? Sounds like you are being the attentive, giving husband, the pressure comes from within your wife (my husband said I was pressuring him, it was his behavior and lying that was pressuring him). Stop hanging on to every word she says....our spouses have all said things to hurt and manipulate our feelings, she wasn't trying to be sweet/rational about you moving out, she was trying to manipulate you into doing what SHE wants. ARE you SURE she isn't in a secret affair, Bruce? I know I sound harsh with my 2 cents, but I feel it would be very bad for you, now, and in the long run if you let her have her way to try to soothe things, do the right thing, respect her feelings, I think there is a time we need to say hey, I am NOT going to take this from you, and you don't have to do it in a mean or angry manner, I just was firm, yet soft, in my conversations with my husband...when making boundries to PROTECT myself & reclaim my rights as a human being, a wife; and to walk with dignity because I was tired of being treated less then dirt. Bruce, you sound like a good husband, stand up for yourself, she's walking all over you.<br>I hope I haven't hurt you Bruce, that truly wasn't my intent, but walking in on this and seeing this situation differently, this is what I see, it's not like I haven't been there myself, you know.Cyberhug, hang in there, get tough and give her some tough love! JADE

Hi Cndy<br>how's things going? I hope you're moving in the right direction!<br>take care<br>chance

Doing MUCH better - we have talked a lot and he is "really" trying to be more sensitive to all the issues. He wants this marriage to work and I think that is the main goal here. If we both want that, it will!