I would not ever tell my kids anything that implied that the separation was in any way a mutual decision, because it was not. Perhaps my values are different from my H's - certainly from his current ones. I believe that real love is unconditional and unending. I believe that marriage is forever; that divorce is wrong except in cases of abuse. I believe that family is the more important than anything else. These are values I hope to impart to our children.<P>I think it is wrong to perpetuate the myth that people divorce because they can't get along. I wish I had known long ago that it was just a myth. Up until my H left, I really believed that people did divorce because they couldn't get along, although I thought it was wrong. I had NO IDEA that infidelity was involved in almost all divorces in long term marriages. I had no idea that infidelity was so very common among ordinary people. I thought that divorcing couples knew they had marital problems. I thought that having one person announce out of the blue that they wanted a divorce was extremely rare. I have heard people say that they always said that they would dump their spouse if he or she were unfaithful - I never even thought what I would do, because it never occurred to me that that he would be unfaithful. I was never jealous; I never minded if he had female friends at work - and perhaps I had no reason to mind, since he apparently met the OW on the Internet, not at work. I love him; he claimed that he loved me. I thought we got along reasonably well. I was completely unprepared. <P> I had NO IDEA that devoted fathers could lose interest in maintaining more than a superficial, occasional relationship with their children, would not want to support his children to the best of his ability, even if it meant denying himself. I had NO IDEA that people's personalities could change. <P>I have never, to my knowledge, met an OW. I know only a handful of people with children who have been divorced. Almost everyone I know, all my friends, almost all my children's friends growing up, almost all the co-workers I have ever had, are in long-term, apparently happy marriages. Among all my co-workers, acquaintances, and friends, I know only 2 who have divorced within the last ten years. <P>Apparently I led a sheltered life, but I don't understand why. I live in a politically liberal state (but with a low divorce rate). We used to attend a very liberal church.

Nellie,<P>I can completely identify. Since this happened to me, I am surprised and shocked at the statistics for affairs and divorce. Like you, I NEVER thought it would happen to me. H & I had never had jealousy problems. I was supportive of all his friends, females included. Now I feel like such a dumba$$. Like you, I thought we had an exceptionally good marriage. I thought we would be together rubbing Ben-Gay on one another. I figured he would lose his hair and my boobs and butt would sag but we would still love each other forever. It didn't work out that way. I don't know if you read my post, but H is ducking out of Father's Day with the kids. Unbelievable. But he says now he is a better father. I just wonder in what universe? While I do know people who are divorced, most of the ones I know are married and seem to be happy. Of the only OW I ever knew, I told her she was an idiot 10 years ago. She used to be a good friend of mine. When I found out I was really upset with her. I thought this stuff was rare too. I thought only real [censored]e$ left their wives and children to run off with someone else. Someone without any moral character...a complete loser. NEVER in a million years did I supsect my H would ever do this. I cannot stress this enough...like you, I didn't see it coming. My H has been invaded by aliens I think.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

I think part of it is the company you keep...married/committed people often tend to "hang" with others similar to them.<P>While I certainly knew these things happened, our circle of friends has always been very pro-family, mostly pretty "grounded" people. I do know a couple of kids with divorced parents, but very few. We have 1 set of friends who may be headed towards divorce (mental stability issues, no affairs yet, tho could see it happening). The rest are all still married. <P>Howver, if you look at my family & his, there are several divorces, 1 of which did involve an OP...whole 'nuther story. <P>Hang in there--<P>Kathi<P>

I too never thought this would happen to me either. I knew we were not as close but he was out of town working all the time.<BR>I was the volunteer mom, and he was the dad with good job. He did scouts and even coached one year of softball. <BR>All my friends are happily married, and have been for years. So what do I do, make new friends? Sometimes I feel like a third wheel with my friends, although they do not mean to make me feel that way.<P>I am jealous too...I want to be happily married, make plans for the future with someone. <P>I hate the thought that I will be divorced and single. But I have to think that maybe this is my chance to start over. I am trying to look at the positives, but it is hard.<P>Just wanted to you to know that I know how you feel too.

I think it is very important to hang out with the people that have the same values. If not, one with values that are easily swayed can be found to lose them.<P>This is what is happening to my W. She is in with a crowd that is very helpful to others when called upon, (fire, ambulance, police) but very selfish in their personal relationships. Present oriented, not future oriented, people who are impulsive, and have very little motivation to go very far beyond the current day to day living.<P>Be mindful of the company you keep.<P>thl<BR>

Nellie,<BR>You areso right......but sometimes one has to save the rest of the family from the emotional wreckage of a parent's "acting out" and this is what I chose to do after a while. <P>With certain behaviour and choices there is no longer a marriage....so why perpetuate the dishonesty and entitlement of all this.<P>I would/ could never have made the choices H made.....and I agree that the wole family is better than the sum of its parts, but sometimes one just has to save oneself from drowning....and that is why I filed first.<P>The reality is that I do not love the man my H has become...no part of him is in anyway attractive and his continual assault (IMHO) of the kids is further damaging to my view of him as the man who I shared so much with. This man no longer exists...so how can I love the exterior of a shell when the innards are alien. All he suffers from is self love, not depression, entitlement not giving, and pomposity not parenting...so who is he now to love????<P>Our friends were couples...and none divorced, so this has been quite difficult but I have reworked my relationships with them all and gained new friendships with single women as well....but this has not been easy, but has been fulfilling. I no longer have to"screen" my friendships as to whether H will approve (social status very important to him!!!!)<P>In response to when i find the time:<BR>I did tell my H in the year before I knew what was going on, but things were different,<BR>"when you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas" and so it has come to pass....only I think he has woken with blood suckers who will take from him materially and leave him dry...that is after I am done getting back what is mine!

Keridwen,<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I thought only real<BR> [censored]e$ left their wives and children to run off with someone else.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I thought so too. I have only met two people whose H's left them for an OW, and one of those H's was always a real jacka$$. Both my H and I were shocked when we heard that the other had left for an OW, and I thought he was an aberration, or perhaps we really hadn't known him very well. But my H was a good man. I was sure of it. <P>kam,<P>All of our friends were pro-family. There are few divorces in our immediate families. One of the reasons I have little interest in joining divorce support groups is that I am afraid they will be full of people who think divorce is acceptable. <P>my3kids,<P>I also feel like a third wheel - but I like my friends, I like their values - I have made several new friends in the last year, and guess what - they are all in happy, long-term marriages also. <P>thl,<P>I don't know quite why anyone would want to hang out with people with different values. Certainly my H's values have seemed to completely changed - not just morality, but his view of the importance of family vs individual interests has shifted to be in line with the values of the OW's family. <P>willbok,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>With certain behaviour and choices there is no longer a marriage<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I guess I do not agree with this (unless the behavior is physical abuse). One of two things must be true: either my H has always been a heartless jerk, but just hid it really well, or he is suffering from depression/BPD or whatever and is sick. I find it really hard to believe the former is possible, and if the latter, the marriage vows included "in sickness or in health". I believe my H does still exist - somewhere deep inside.

Nellie:<P>Thinking back to before the 'fling', I remember my husband going on and on about Clinton and what a piece of work he was. He said that he didn't trust the Prez because if he cheats on his wife, he has no integrity and if he lies to her, he'll lie to us. He found Clinton disgusting and saw him as weak and smarmy.<P>About eight months before my husband's fling, our daughter found out her brand new husband of a year was having a telephone relationship with an old girlfriend. Our daughter dumped him like a bad habit and never looked back. My husband thought his former son-in-law was the lowest bottom feeder he had ever met. He talked about his lack of character, lack of self-esteem, that he was generally disingenuous and deceitful.<P>It's so sad, but, today I look at my husband and remember his words not so very long ago about our Prez and our son-in-law and wonder what all that lip service was all about.<P>Never in a bazillion years did I ever think for one moment that my husband could betray me, reject me or dismiss me. I beleived he was as nuts about me as I was about him. I never thought there was an imbalance in our love for each other. <BR>I believed that if the chips were down, he would have laid down his life for me. I beleived that if it looked as if we were in trouble, he would fight to the death to keep us together because the horror of not having 'us' anymore would just be too painful. I really beleived he loved me that much.<P>Where the hell did I get all that from? I must be completely delusional. <P>All I know is that I met my husband's needs on every level and there was never any excuse for what he did. He simply got tired of me and wanted something new or perhaps, I had served my purpose and he had used me all up and I had no real value to him anymore. I don't know. He didn't tell me. He just surprised me.<P>Maybe it really is the alcohol and bipolar...but, I will never really know for sure. He's so mercurial...one minute absolutely, completely in love with me, wanting to hold me all the time, wanting to just be near me, OR, he becomes distant and 'cool' and seems to be avoiding me. Little things one would not notice...I never paid much attention to it before. <BR>It's all so very confusing and frightening. Behavior I used to pass off as just a 'mood' now send off immediate sirens blaring and red flags screaming and shreiking "DANGER!" at me making me feel instantly off balance, lonely, lacking confidence, but most of all, NOT SAFE. I don't feel safe anymore, I don't feel joy anymore. And I don't believe him anymore when he says he loves me.<P>So, Nellie, even when and if they come back, after all the damage has been done, when any little behavior is remotely like it was when we were in the most pain from the betrayal, you will fear he either wishes he wouldn't have come back or regrets he is with you. And you wait for him to leave again.<P>This is what my 'recovery' is like today. I shouldn't even be posting this because this has just been another lousy couple days and I don't want to discourage anyone. Next week I could be in love and feeling great about where we are heading. <BR>My frame of mind is in direct correlation to what my husband's bahavior is.<P>Catnip =^^=

catnip,<P>I would guess that it is the alcohol and bipolar - describing his moods as mercurial seems like it fits. <P>My H seemed appalled when a friend of our left his wife for an OW many years ago. <P>It seems to me that in cases like our H's, either they were extremely good liars for many, many years - not just lying about what they were doing, but going out of their way to lie about their values - or they are sick. I just don't think my H is that good at lying, especially since I can often tell even now when he is lying.

And, Nellie, don't forget how many years their behavior was fairly consistent. <BR>No one can keep up pretenses and lie for that many years. No one is THAT good of an actor or a liar. It is an illness. <BR>I am convinced your husband is as sick as they come, sick as a dog. He REALLY needs major therapy and medication.<P>Catnip =^^=

Hi--Am new here and I just read your post. I felt like I had wrote it---it describes my circumstances exactly (only we have been married 25 years). Please know that you are in my thoughts and prayers. Will try to write more another time.

Nellie,<BR>I wanted to reply to your post. I filed for divorce in my marriage, it was not an easy decision. We had a very large stock asset that was only in his name and he could have sold it and left me with nothing. It was 90% of our total worth. We had sold our business and that was how the company that bought us out had mostly paid for our company. <BR>From a moral or emotional viewpoint I am still married and having a very difficult time with this whole mess. My parents are still married after almost 48 years. I was raised to believe the vows we shared actually meant what we said.<BR>My H has been down in Florida since June 2nd with OW. He will be back on the 17th. This has been VERY hard to deal with. He told me the day before he left that to give him this 2 weeks to end it and he wanted to see then if we could work on getting back together. His attorney even told him he should be placing his efforts on reconciliation and not on divorce! He said we just dont seem to have a problem with each other. Thats very sad when a divorce lawyer tells you that. I thought I could handle his being with her for the 2 weeks. But, I am having a hard time believing that it takes that long to wrap things up, plus who would want to spend 2 weeks with someone they plan on leaving? It is supposedly because they are down there seeing her dying Mother. He says she needs her support going thru this. How about her H?<BR>It isnt alien invasion. It is lack of morality and a lack of God in his life. All of their lives. Every person commiting adultery on their spouses is just plain selfish and sinful.<BR>Catnip's H and mine are two of a kind. All I heard last summmer was what a scum Clinton was and how he should be impeached. Hypocrites!!!<BR>As for everyone being happily married, dont bet on it. They just dont tell everyone the truth until someone leaves. Some people are happy, but, you can be sure some of them are not as blissful as they claim. So, dont think that you are some failure because your marriage took this course. <BR>I agree with you, I dont let my S believe Mommy and Daddy stopped loving each other. Hogwash. Daddy got selfish and weak and walked out on his family and responsibilities. I dont sugar-coat it. He knows what his Dad did. He knows it is wrong. His Dad called him a few times last week from Florida. My S wouldnt pick up. When his Dad called last Saturday I answered. I felt it was time to deal with him. My S talked to him. He asked why he didnt call him back and S told him that he didnt want to talk to him when he was with her. When he asked why, son told him because what you are doing is wrong, and you shouldnt be spending 2 weeks with her. Period. H hung up fast and hasnt called him since. The truth is my 9 almost 10 yr old knows right from wrong and just calmly stated so. I was so proud of him!! He gets it. Marriage is more than 2 people claiming love for each other and then some time deciding that it just doesnt work anymore. Or that somehow you arent as good as some new person. We cant cure their problems. If they are out of whack in their lives they have to do the work and see what is not working. It may be something totally unrelated to their spouse and may be lack of friendship, spirituallity, whatever. It is just easier to blame you or me instead of searching themselves and seeing where they can make their life better in other areas. If they did maybe they would see that the marriage was fine it was something else. But, that takes work and being honest with ones self. Some people just cant or wont do that work. They look for other people for happiness. When you cant fill the bill for them then they look elsewhere. It is hard and it sucks, but, I think thats the sum of it. <BR>Through this ordeal I have found my way to the Lord and he is what is healing my heart. I know one day I will find a loving, centered man who I will be able to share a loving life with. Someone spiritually centered. I pray that that can be my H. That he would turn away from everything he has been doing. But, if it not to be than I must, we all must go on confident that life without someone this selfish will get better. I dont think they changed. They just got lazy and took the evil, easy way out (they think).<BR>Im sorry I vented so long. I guess what you all were talking about just got me going.<BR>I wish you well. I will pray for you and your family. <BR>God bless,<BR>Lisa

spiritclicker,<P>Thanks for your support. <P>tryingtoletgo,<P>I don't think it is just a matter of lack of morality or selfishness, when it is so out of character with the way they were before.<P>Our daughter wanted to get her father something for Father's Day, and found something she liked except it said "World's Best Father". She decided that she didn't want anything that said that, and she couldn't find anything that simply said, "I love you". She had a heck of a time finding a card that didn't say something like, "You are never too busy for me.."