I am at a loss ......don't know what to do.....mind is saying that he needs to go and calm down.....to settle things out in his own mind and calm down before he moves back home......lots of anger.....on both of our parts......I know this is not good for the kids......<P>and yet the thought of him actually being gone.....doesn't really bother me for my sake.....but for my kids sake....how will they deal with it??? boy 12 soon to be 13 and daughter 10 soon to be 11....they love their daddy....I have tried so hard to always lift him up in their eyes.....and it has worked they think the world of him.....how can I take him away from them???<P>and yet I know the arguing and fighting.....the crying.....they see and hear all this.....they know there is problems.....<P>what is best for them??? any suggestions.....I could care less about myself.....I just worry about them......

Hey stilldreamin,<P>take a deep breath - as someone once told me to do. It helps.<P>I was in your situation last July/Aug. I finally left Sept 2.<BR>My story in a nutshell is that H started a new job, and got a new woman. He had just been sacked from his previous job in another state, and was emotionally and physically exhausted. I am not surprised that he had the affair at all. She made him feel worthwhile, wonderful, attractive etc etc etc. A week after moving interstate to be with him (as a wife does!!) I knew something was very wrong. We had only been apart for 6 weeks while I sold our house interstate. By the time I got to be with him, my marriage was basically over. I tried so hard to make it work, we went to counselling but he lied through his teeth, I begged him to get another job and give us a go, but he chose her. So I left. My family lived 2 states away some 2000 kms. It was the best thing I could have done.<BR>My children are younger than yours, I have 2 girls aged nearly 5 and just turned 2. Like you, I have never bagged their Daddy, have only ever said good things about him, and reinforced that he loves them with all his heart which is the truth.<BR>We never really got to the stage where we were arguing and shouting in front of the children, but the children did see me cry far to much for what is good for them. I can only imagine how 13 and 11 yo feel. But I can imagine.<BR>Nobody can tell you what to do, but for me, separation was the best thing that I could have done for myself. It removed me from the situation, it removed me from him and her, it moved me back to my family who gave me so much love and support. Love and support that I would never have got from his family or my friends. Yes, I do think I 'ran away' from the situation, but I had just had 2 years of bad situations, one after the other and the affair was really the last straw. I personally couldn;t take any more. <BR>By separating, I got my sanity back, I got my strength back, and I got myself back.<BR>The funny thing is, he has now moved here. His relationship with OW was over in Jan. I think, and he moved here about 6 weeks ago.<BR>My point (I think) here is that separating was the best thing I could have done, both for me and my children. I never at any stage stopped him from ringing them, or visiting them. He took them back to his state for 2 weeks after Christmas (a killer) and visited about 3 other times for long weekends. He called them almost every night. By doing that, and by me never saying anything bad about him, our separation has not really affected the children. But like I said, mine are younger, and probably don't really understand what has happened. However, they do know that they don't have to choose betwen Mummy and Daddy, and that it's ok to love us both. I worked so hard for that. By doing that, although don't get me wrong, I had moments where revenge where his children were concerned was thought about (I'm only human after all!!!!!!!) he was able to step straight back into their lives when he moved here. They go to his house happily, he sometimes comes here for dinner and puts them to bed and reads them stories. They know that Daddy is still in their lives because he loves them and wants to be in their lives.<P>Well, that's my story. <P>I firmly believe that if you put ;the children first, the decisions that you make will all work out. Even if separation is the way to go for you, by putting the children first, they will know that they can go to Daddy's without feeling disloyal to you, and vice versa. They will know that it is ok to love both of you. They will also see their Mummy and Daddy going through a hard time, and a sad time, but dealing with it with dignity and love, kindness and respect. What a valuable lesson to teach them.<BR>With all my heart, I believe that.<BR>I hope everything works out for you, in a way that gives you peace of mind for you and the children.<BR>I'll follow your story, and be your friend.<BR>love and hugs to you<BR>Jo

Still Dreamin,<P>I believe that the children should always come first. I have been posting for a while here, until recently under Lonelymom. <P>I can certainly say that 6 years ago, I was where you are now. I took my H back for the kids. I thought they needed a daddy. I felt I could sacrifice my life and happiness until the kids were older, or until they were 18. At 21 years old, with a 3 year old and an 18 month old, I know now, that was a heck of a commitment to make. I tried my hardest. Never gave up. Never cheated. Kept hanging on . <P>Ultimately, he had an affair, and ultimately I also began resenting him before the affair. I didn't know about emotional needs. I didn't know about lovebusters . All I knew was that I wasn't happy and I started resenting him for it. <P>I would suggest counseling and seperation really is always a good thing. You can take time apart to see how you really feel. I truly believe what is meant to be is meant to be. It sounds bad to say, but if there is a lot of fighting, and the two of you are truly happier apart, that also, is healthy for the kids. Divorce is hard on kids, and unfortunately a way of life, but the kids will survive. Mine have been in counseling, have straight A's and are living with it.<P>I have gone on to become wiser and happier in the process. It was a long hard road. It took me 6 years of trying to get kicked hard with his affair. In the end, I truly resent him for giving up the last 6 years of my life to wind up like this (and we were together 5 before that). <P>Thats not really advice, just my opinion and personal situation. I do think seperation can make you or break you though. Time apart, will let you think clearly.<P>Dana<BR>

thanks DanaB.....<P>I am really struggling with this one...<P>son is really showing signs of anger and depression....discussed with him possibility of going to a counselor...he does not like the idea....but he will not really talk to either of us.....which I can understand....doesn't want to talk to me about his dad and vice-versa......<P>but I so worry that he will act out on this anger if his dad is out of the house.....take it out on his little sister.....himself....me.....<P>wish that God would just send a neon sign explaining what I should do.......

I've been separated 7 times in the past 2 years...yeah, the "I need space/time to think". All that meant in our case was he wanted some time to see the OW and live the single life.<P>My daughters are now 12 & nearly 15. They've both heard us fight. The 15 year old's room is next to ours, last summer one of the times he moved home, she began sleeping in the Tv room. I couldn't blame her. She has said things to her father that break both of our hearts. She is ANGRY! But yet, now that he's been home 6 weeks, I see their relationship healing. If he would leave again, I think she will never forgive him.<P>The kids will survive a separation, a divorce, but as my counselor discussed with me yesterday, a majority of the people he sees have a broken parental relationship in their past. Too sad, really.<P>All I can say is separation for the purpose of "getting his head together" is unlikely to work to get your marriage back together. As Bonnet & Dana are saying, there is a point at which the marriage is gone and you save yourself.<P>You can't make him stay if he is determined to leave. But I know I am glad at this juncture that I never made him move out--each time was his choice.<P>I'm sorry for your situation, stilldreamin', I know how grindingly difficult it is. And separation, as I am proving...over and over ... is not necessarily the end of the marriage. You can still Plan A, you can still, if he's willing, have a type of family life.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

today is our 16th anniversary......I am not sure how I feel...or should feel.....I am so numb.....so at a loss for words....<P>I do appreciate your advice and willingness to listen and respond...it means a lot....<P>unfortunately in my case I was the one who had an affair.....big mistake......wrong...and I do so see the wrongness in it and never want to repeat that mistake.....husband brings it up at every occassion he can.....we are discussing son and he brings up that 2 years ago he was being a good dad and teaching them.....what was I teaching them?? he questions....I sink.....not just because I know that what I did was so horribly wrong but that he is carrying this bitterness inside and not allowing a healing to take place.....<P>he brings up dates.....I only saw this other man 3 times.....husband knows the dates because he ***needed*** to know ***everything*** to move on.....he knows everything and uses it to remind me how horrible I am.....<P>[censored]'s post has helped to get me to start distinguishing the *who* I am from the *do*, the bad choices I have made.....<P>I just don't know what to do.....this sunday is another one of those dates.....the big one....I know husband will freak out on me....he has gotten more uncontrollable lately and physical......<P>my mind says I'm crazy to let this go on...heart says he's hurting.....I don't know how to help him let go without totally destroying myself.......

Still dreamin',<BR>I was a betrayer 10 years ago. Your husband is punishing you. If you are Christians the best thing you could do is go to a Christian counselor and focus on forgiveness. In some ways, with my H's affair dates, I've been acting like your H. I haven't been able to get past many days, and all along I have though I was forgiving, just as my H thought he forgave me 10 years ago, but his wound just festered until he began his own affair and everything just has escalated from there.<P>Can you just keep reiterrating that you were wrong, you are sorry, you love him? I know I had to say it a lot, still do, now that I'm aware that wound didn't heal. And I want to hear it from my H now.<P>I wish I had better advice, but love & forgiveness is the key and that is up to your H.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Hi,<P>My conselor told me that separation is good, only if these conditions are met:<P>1. Both attend a marriage counselor, seperate and together.<P>2. Not a time to see anybody else, date etc.<P>Seperation should be done only because you are going to start with a clean slate. You main goal is to get back together. They recommend a 6 month seperation. If things are not resolved, if one or the other isn't a willing participant. The marriage will die. <P>I see a christian counselor, but it is very difficult for me to think that I may need to take that step. I'm scared. I'm going to feel like a failure if it doesn't work. My counselor said that my life needs to be right with God when I do this step. I do not know what your religious background is but, it's a hard decision to make.<P>I'll be praying for you.

Stilldreamin<P>[QUOTE]Originally posted by stilldreamin:<BR>[B]thanks DanaB.....<P>I am really struggling with this one...<P>son is really showing signs of anger and depression....discussed with him possibility of going to a counselor...he does not like the idea....but he will not really talk to either of us.....which I can understand....doesn't want to talk to me about his dad and vice-versa......<P>A co-worker who I share a work space with expressed on Friday a very similar problem with her son, about 11yo. He developed the inability to perform skills he had done before (sports, recreation) due to the anger from the divorce. Anger management counceling had been instituted by the school. Also, his father, who plans to marry the OW is till very much in his life.<P>RRunRR<BR><P>------------------<BR>Almost anything can be undone or forgiven.