x is passive/agresssive and thinks that I am the Queen-She-Devil, to be polite. Obviously he owns no mirror into which he can look to see his imperfections.<P>To say that we can't communicate is a gross understatement. I have been so hurt by his betrayal (primarily emotional) and he has been hurt by my inability to measure up to his standards. I think the big thing that went wrong was that he is emotionally unwell. <P>We can talk between ourselves about the fact that we don't wish to see or talk to each other. Sadly, my s has told his therapist that he doesn't like the way his daddy treats me (verbally/emotionally) and that it angers him but he can't talk to his daddy about it.<P>To make a long story short, last night x and I had fight over visitation. We have a nonstandard arrangement and we didn't have matching calendars so both of us had plans involving other people. X wasn't smart enough to realize that he could have had the children and hired a babysitter or take children to a drop-in child care place. Now he wants us to submit any variation, or request for a specific Friday or Saturday "off", in writing to the other person. Frankly, I don't have to be that formal. He won't give me an email address for himself so I would only have 2 ocaissions per week to hand him a request unless I wished to mail it and who needs to wait for that?Don't know how to fax him and that would be to his office where I couldn't expect privacy. And what if something came up on Wednesday for Friday or Saturday? Do you get the picture? <P>This wasn't so much a request as a demand. Frankly, I need the man's money (what little I get) and know that I need to be on decent terms with him.<P>I don't want to go to the standart every other weekend visitation because that messes up regular church attendance. We don't want children torn between two churches and I don't think he and I shold alternate where we worship to accomodate that or each other. <P>In truth, I know that I am dealing with a man not blessed with good emotional and, probably, mental health. He has never really worked with any professional on what is going on in his own brain. <P>Maybe I should start praying now for the woman he is marrying this fall. Hopefully, she'll be rational and can become a calming force. I'd be happy to be her friend if he doesn't poison her mind concerning me.<P>Can these people be finessed, for lack of a better term, into being allies instead of enemies? <P>------------------<BR>JMJ

You mentioned feeling that neither one of you should have to switch churchs to accomodiate the other. Frankly, it doesn't matter what the two of you should or should not do for the other, it only matters what makes it easier for the child. Your children already have their life changed and it's up to you to make their life as easy as possible. If that means bending over backward for your ex then you need to swallow your pride and do it. Believe me, I know what your going through. My ex is so emotionally abusive that even his own parents and siblings don't talk to him. I am the one that has a relationship with them. He has went out of his way to put his children in the middle hoping to hurt me by hurting them. I'm sorry but I'll take the abuse and the stomach problems dealing with him if it spares my children. Right now, even though he lives 2 miles away he only see's his kids 4-5 times at best per year. What he does is calls at the last minute and DEMANDS that I drive the kids to his home so he can spend a few hours with him. I certainly do not have to do this. But, a pissing match really affects the kids. Your son is being torn apart with the two of you bickering. If a formal request for weekends off makes it easier for your son, I suggest you do it even if it is a pain in the butt for you. Another hint....once you don't let your ex get under your skin so much he'll lighten up because it won't be fun anymore.

You know what's weird, this man goes ballistic when we talk on most topics. It doesn't matter if I go there or if I stay calm. I can tell him he's being inappropriate and that I don't have to listen to his abuse. He then gets upset if I hang up on him. I simply feel as if I can't win. It doesn't matter what I do, he's either abusively aggressive or passive/aggressive. I seem to be in a situation where I can't win.<P>------------------<BR>JMJ

Like I said before, I totally understand what your going through. I have and still do have an extremely tough time with the ex. However, it has gotten better with time. Eventually they have better things to do with their lives other then bothering you. Just PLEASE try to keep the bickering down around your child. That ripes at their soul.

I do pretty well around the children. He doesn't do as well. <P>We are far worse when they aren't around. I suggested e-mail transmissions between us. That way we could read and measure our words before they are sent. It was my idea so, Of course, he disagreed. I can give him the written requests. You know, I've only had one job where they expected that of me.<P>What is with these people? He's still mad at me for making his life so miserable. I swear I don't know this man.<P>How do you deal with a person who is truly both Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde? I believe that, in his estimation, I couldn't even die right.<P>Why can't he see that we're on the same team?<BR>We don't have to be enemies. I'd love to be cooperative but how can you cooperate with those who hate you?<BR>I guess I need to do more prayer on this, for starters. I know I'm not the only one facing this sort of terrorization. Are there any more good ideas?<P><P>------------------<BR>JMJ

Oh boy I wish I knew the answers to your questions because it would help me too! I did laugh though when you said he didn't like the e-mail thing because it was YOUR idea. My ex did/does the exact same thing!! If I asked for something or suggested something he'd do just the complete opposite. He feels that if he does what I ask or suggest that I am controlling him! It took 3 years for my ex to lay off. But, he didn't lay off because he was getting better, he has laid off because his girlfriend doesn't want him to have a life before her. That means no kids, no parents, no siblings and no friends. So, I don't have the problems dealing with him anymore because he just doesn't come around. Great dad huh?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cinderella:<BR><B>I believe that, in his estimation, I couldn't even die right.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>ROTHFLMAO <P>I have one of those spouses, but agrees with me later usually. Any suggestion I make feels controlling, and that is one of her elusive reasons on why she wants out.<P>IMHO, best approach is firm, no emotions, and hang up if he starts going off, leave if he starts in front of the kids. Just continue non acceptance of his temper tantrums.<P><B> That shows your kids what they should not put up with, even if it is family. I think it is called respect, and learning that lesson will be the best lesson you can give the kids, better than letting them see and imitate an emotionally abusive man. </B><P>Which choice is better: <P>a) spending time with dad learning this is how he gets his way? treats women?<BR>b) to learn self respect, with what to put up with and not to put up with?<P>And remember, which choice has the best long term consequence?<P>thl<P>sheesh, men just for the electrical stuff? just turn off the main board before touching any wires, and remember, black is hot because that is what your hand would look like if you touched it live!<P><BR>

In the last week I've had the chance to talk to two men who work with x and who are total strangers to me. I guess God sent them to me at this time because I needed them. In both cases something was said about x's employer and I commented that he worked there. They got strange looks on their face (kind of like "You poor thing") and said that they heard that he'd changed in the last few years and that he seems, from their personal and gleened observations, to be a very unhappy man. That's fine with me. He doesn't want to do the work to get better. I can live with that.<P>I'm just so tired of being the target of all his anger. Has anyone found a way to defuse these ballistic jerks?<P>Is there a way to get them to see that you are not the enemy? That, sometimes, you have something to say that might be good?<P>(Please note - I wouldn't want him back if he came crawling back dragging a steamer trunk full of thousand dollar bills. I just want to be treated with civility and respect.)

Cinderella,<P>OMG! Are you sure you aren't talking about my H??? <P>My H even got mad at me because the law master did a wage attachment for my child support! Like I had something to do with putting that law into effect! LOL LOL<P>Plus he's mad at me because he can't afford a car! Well, I'm sorry but when he lived here, he had a car. He gave that up for the OW! <P>I just blow it off. I don't talk to him if he starts trying to argue with me. I tell him I'll talk to him later when he's in a better mood. If he wants to talk he calms down, if not I politely HANG UP THE PHONE! Don't put up with it!<P>Mitzi

cinderella,<P>are you asking him to change? HE WON'T!<P>What you need to do is to put limits/ boundaries on his interaction with you. PERIOD.<P>If he is that unhappy, I am sure YOU CAN'T fix that, you are a CAUSE in his mind. Forget about fixing him, he is the only one.<P>Just don't deal with him in that way.<P>It is really hard, it $ucks for the kids, but you will be better without it, and so will the kids.<P>thl

Mitzi - maybe I am talking about your x. After all, I don't know this man.<P>Is yours short, fat, ugly, bad haircut, worse attitude?<P>Is he from a family of real sickos. If 1/3 of all Americans are mentally ill I know where you can find a high concentration. Just hope I can raise well children. I guess that's why they go to the therapist.<P>Seems like you and I have had this conversation about parallelism in our lives. Isn't it a small world?<P>Why is it that it doesn't matter if you calm down or flare up, these sick people rant on and on. And you know that if you hang up on them, even after explaining that you are not deserving of this behavior and that you're going to allow them to calm down or talk to dead air, they are going to write this on their list of your transgressions and one of these days you'll have to tell the attorney why you keep hanging up on them.<P>Walking out or hanging up just makes him worse. I can't win either way. I know what the logical responses are. Has anyone tried anything else that might work?<P>These get me out of the situation but I sure wish someone had a new idea.

Cinderella,<P>My H is tall, nicely built and good-looking. But with a horrible temperament and bad personality now.<P>I just let my H rant and rave all he wants. On the rare occasion that I talk to him, I talk to him almost as if I'm talking to a child! LOL Kill him with kindness. But it's not even for my benefit. The only time I talk to him is when he wants to see the boys (rarely) or when he wants to talk about legal stuff (not often). So I guess I'm pretty lucky in that aspect. <P>Good luck,<BR>Mitzi

Cinderella,<P>How about putting the phone down for 2-3 minutes, so you can hear when he finishes, and then start up again?<P>thl<BR>

If I knew the answer to that one I could sell books on the topic and probably be a millionaire by now. There are so many sickos out there that all share the same unreasonable, irrational characteristics.<BR>My X (we are not yet divorced) is totally crazy. Nothing I have tried in dealing with him comes close to working. Nothing. I have prayed till I am losing hope.<BR>I will get back to you on this later.

Folks - I do put the phone down and leave it. For as much as 5 minutes. He can talk to the air for that long and never figure out that no one is listening. Obviously, he doesn't need feedback. He just needs to spew his evil nastiness on anything and any one within range.<P>And I've even tried praying for him. Seems you can't even pray some people into wellness. I guess the next person to pray for in this relationship is myself. That I will have the ability to handle it better. Man I am dating had a good comment: "Someone has to be the adult in this relationship and it's not going to be him." <P>Are there ANY new strategies for dealing with these overgrown babies? I stay calm, I hang up, I yell, I put the phone down and check on him periodically, I do all the usual things. Even the ones recommended by the "experts" and this man can't be dealt with.<P>Does the second wife ever make the situation better? I'm hoping she and I can be allies - not friends - and that we can have the common goal of my children's best welfare.<P>(Strange thing has happened in the last week. On two occaisions I have encountered people from "What's his name"'s employer. When I commented x works there, they asked his name. Upon hearing it, they got a strange look on their face and said they had heard that - he had changed - or -that he is an unhappy man and that he had been in some trouble at work for being confrontational and having to have things his way -!!)<BR>