My Stbx wants to take the kids next weekend along with OW on a whitewater rafting trip. Since they have NEVER met her and only found out about her in the last few days, I told him I didn't think it would be a good idea. He asked me when I would ever feel it was right for the kids to be around OW and I (honestly) said never. That I would always think it was a bad idea since she is the reason we are divorcing. He got angry and started threatening to take the kids away from me. He called back later to apologize but now he wants to have a "long" talk. I don't know why. My opinion about this woman will not change. I will always consider her trash that I don't want my children around. He will never get my "agreement" on this. Why does he even bother? He's NOT going to talk me into playing nice-nice with the OW. I hope my kids despise her! Why in the world would I want there relationship to be a smooth one? I hope they make her life (and his) a living he!!. He's going ahead with his sorry little life with her anyway, why does he need MY permission? As if that even matters. I guess he thinks I should be happy for him and wish him the best in his life, but I just don't right now. As long as he is with this particular woman, I will long for their complete misery. Yes, I am very bitter. I'm tired of this whole dam# thing being shoved down my throat, and then when I'm not all conciliatory, I am called a b!tch! I am threatened with lawsuits! What is wrong with this man? I will NEVER be supportive of his relationship with this woman. He should have thought of this kind of stuff before he unzipped his pants! God, I am just SO ANGRY!!!!! He gets to be Disneyland Dad and I get to be boring old mom who makes the kids clean their rooms and brush their teeth. This is incredibly unfair! I know, I know, life is seldom fair. But I am sick of this mess! I didn't have a choice in it but it's being shoved down my throat! I don't want to do this anymore!!!!!!!! ARGHHH@!!!!!!!!!!! <P>Sorry for the rant.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

Keridwen,<BR> I know that feeling.So does everyone else here who's been reduced to second-hand goods.<BR>Let me see if I can sum it up so our stbx spouses have something to tell people:<BR> <BR>"Hi everyone,I'm(insert stbx name),and this is(insert your name).We used to be married,until(insert OW/OM name)came along,and I fell in love with her/him.But my ex-W/H that I cheated on,is my best friend now.She/He is a really good sport.She/He and(insert OW/OM name)and the kids and I all get along like one big happy family.I've never been happier in my life,and(insert your name)is happy for me.Isn't life great!"<P> They just don't get it,do they???<BR> After my stbx told me she'd been sleeping with a co-worker,she had the balls to say he was a real nice guy,that I'd like him,and someday after our divorce,we could all have BBQ's together.<BR> I told her she needed professional help.<P> This all seems like a real bad nightmare,doesn't it? <BR> <BR>All you can do is try to stay strong,maintain your self-respect,and don't let him make you feel guilty for his gross mis-deeds.Hang in there!<P> ~~Murph/Goodsport-NOT

Keridwen:<BR>Life stinks at times.<BR>Murph expressed this so well.<BR>They just DO NOT UNDERSTAND,or choose not to.<BR>I was expected to be friends with H, ow etc as I had had her in my home etc prior to this mess as I felt sorry for her (secretary/bimbo a generation younger that H and myself!)<P>H will not communicate with me in any way as I did not enable his fantasy financially, parentally, or socially to materialize. What has happened is not the way it was scripted in his head!<P>I have been strong (to outside world and cried so much alone), but at this point and forever I will not have anything to do with ow, will not see her, be at any social engagement where she is (she is never invited!) and no, she is not a good person for my kids to be around....and while H is with her, living brazenly , I will have nothing to do with him.<BR>This friends thing is such a fantasy when they behave in such a hurtful way and expect us to just accept that this is the way it should be.<P>IT IS ALL A FANTASY....and those who thwart these ideas (you, me etc.) are horrible creatures who are not making them happy!!!!!<P>Just my opinion....and take care of yourself. yes... Uncle dads and Disney dads are what they have become...more fool them.

Keridwen,<P>you poor poor thing. I know exactly what you are going through.<BR>My H wanted to introduce the children to OW last Christmas, what joy for me !!!!!!! <BR>Luckily, I found an article here under 'articles' that said that children should not be introduced to any new partner for at least 12 months. I 'discussed' this with H, gritting my teeth at the time, because he had all the balls in his court. He was taking the children away from me, 2000 kms away, to visit his parents. I wouldn't even be there to supervise, or just plain be there for them. I had NO control over the situation. I just had to hope that he would put the children first. He said that he wouldn't be able to promise 'anything', that he couldn't say for sure that he wouldn't introduce her to the children. But he didn't. He later told me that that had caused so much trouble between him and OW, like, where's the box of bloody tissues!!!!!! He had me confused with someone who cared. As if I would care.<P>BUT, and I hope you don't hate me for saying this, this situation is exactly what we are all faced with now. It is going to happen, unless Flora, Fauna and Merryweather come along and wave their wands over me and you!!<P>We need to put ourselves second, yep, again, and put the CHILDREN first. Somehow, we need to let them see their Daddy, let them know it's ok to love and be with their Daddy, but also let them know that there will be someone else there. A **woman** and I use that term under advisement.!!!!!!!<BR>I can't remember your full story, and I don't know how old your children are, but I firmly believe, if you put the children first, it does all work out. Yep, we're going to have to keep taking those bitter pills, but we might as well get used to them. Those are the facts right now, from where we sit.<P>Can I tell you a story that happened to a friend of mine just last weekend?.<BR>Her H did what all our H's have done, had an affair and got a new woman. My friend is 4 years down the track now, divorced, and has an OK relationship with her x. He is still with the OW he left my friend for, and she has a child of her own. It was the X's access visit last weekend, but he was working on Sat. He sent OW to pick up my friend's son who is 5 1/2. My friend had to hand her son over to the woman who had effectively destroyed her marriage. But she did it. The reason why she did it is because OW has always treated her son ok, and the son is quite happy to visit his Dad and her. She put her son first. He was ok with going off with OW, so my friend felt she should be ok with it too.<BR>Where she got the strength from to be able to do that I will never know. It makes my blood boil just thinking about it.<P>Can I share another story???<BR>My d who is 4 1/2 was being naughty, so I told her there was no icecream after dinner. She went to bed upset, and then told me she wanted to move to Daddy's house. I thought OH-uh, this is not good. I panicked inside, and thought how the heck do I deal with this one. I ended up with "ok, Baby, you can go to Daddy's house if that is really what you want, but we'll pack your bags tomorrow. It's too late now. You need to get a good nights sleep if you're going to be moving."<BR>She came back with this (still brings tears to my eyes) "Well, I don't really want to Mummy, but you're being so horrible to me.. I think I need to go and live at Daddy's just for a little while. But I don't really want to......."<BR>It was almost as if she was saying "Look Mum, you leave me no alternative....." She obviously didn't go to live at Daddy's, and told me the next day she would never leave me.<P>Our children need to see us dealing with this situation with dignity, kindness, and respect. These are the lessons that we will pass on to our children. They will also see us dealing with conflict, and they will become the problem solvers of the future, not the problem causers.!!<P>My H is a huge conflict avoider, and I will do anything to teach my children how to deal with issues that raise their ugly heads. Even if it means I take those bitter pills for the rest of my life. I want them to tackle whatever comes their way, deal with it, make decisions, and then move on. Wiser and better people. I didn't want their first lessons to happen so early in their lives, or to be so painful, however, that is what I was dealt. And what you have been dealt too. We will rise above it, and in the doing, raise better children. They will become the adults of the future who are well grounded, know love, but know respect and kindness too.<P>Please don't get me wrong, I have wished everything bad for my H and his now X-OW, made phone calls to OW's mother letting her know what her daughter was doing (not too proud of that one!!!) and called OW herself. But I never swore, or called her names. I kept my dignity. But make no mistake, I don't think you have to swear or namecall to get your point across!!!!!!!! She sure knew where I was coming from. Anyway, I digress.<P>You need to show your children what you are made of. You are made of better stuff than anything he can dish out. Yes, our H's get all the fun with the children, and we get all the hard work, however, hard work ALWAYS pays off. We will be the ones that have the relationship with our children. We will be there for them when they are sick, and just need a cuddle and love. We get to have those little priceless moments that can never be recaptured, and we can be selfish about those. We don't have to share those moments, because they are not here to share them with us.<P>I know what you are going through, and the sick sick feeling in the pit of your stomach. I just wanted to curl up and die at the injustice of it all. But we all find our ways through this mess. And I know I said it before, but if you put the children first, it makes any decision making a whole lot easier.<P>I hope you don't think I've taken a hard line or approach. Please don't think that. I know exactly the pain you are feeling, and I feel for you. And you don't have to endorse his relationship with the OW, I don't think anyone would expect you to (except him) but if that is what he has chosen, you do need to accept it. With acceptance comes a certain letting go. It did for me. And with letting go, comes peace.<P>Sorry this is sooooooo long. I didn't mean for it to be.<P>love and hugs to you<P>Jo<P>ps<BR>If you can't find the article and want it, let me know and I'll try and find my copy and mail it to you. Or I'll type it out and email it to you.

Keridwen,<P>At least he told you in advance. My H introduced the kids to the OW before I even knew she existed, six weeks after he left. Within a few weeks after that, he let them know that he was sharing her bed. At least two counselors told him it was way too soon, but it was too late then. <P>It makes no difference. The non-custodial parent gets to do whatever he or she wants. Can see the kids whenever it is convenient, but only when it is convenient. Can show up late, bring them home early, it doesn't matter. If there is not enough income coming in all together to support the kids, it is the custodial parent who has to go into debt. The law states that he only has to pay a certain percentage of his income, and to H*** with the fact that 100% of my income plus child support is not enough to pay the mortgage and buy food for the family. I am the one who has to keep going further into debt to support the kids. He can change the way he wants the kids raised completely, and then force me to go along with it.<P>It is insane to get married. It is insane to have children with someone else. There is no way of knowing if they are going to wake up one day not only not loving you anymore, but being completely different people, having completely different child-rearing philosophies, completely different values than the day before.<P>All this needs-meeting stuff is a bunch of hogwash. It doesn't matter if you meet all of someones needs or not. Our needs were not all met either, and we didn't go off and have an affair. There is nothing anyone can do to keep their spouse from succumbing to depression or other mental illness, and as long as they are still semi-functional, the court system and society will allow them to destroy everyone else's life.

Murph...it's amazing how many of us have to deal with this crap, isn't it? There are days I want someone else's life - and then I realize, as widespread as this is it's only a matter of time till it happens again.<P>Willbok...When OW was introduced to me, I thought she was H's friend who had "unfortunately" fallen in love with my H because she had such a crappy marriage. Unbeknownst to me, they had already been having sex. I was completely duped. I was so nice to her. I feel like such an idiot now. I felt sorry for her too. I wonder if this is a common scenario.<P>Bonnet...you weren't too hard on me. Everything you said was right on. I agree that by putting our kids first we are doing the right thing. Sometimes it's hard to grit our teeth, but we gotta do it. And trust them to see the reality of the situation and accept it as such. My kids are 14, 11 & 9. They know what's going on. And yes, I have become someone with nerves of steel, at least around my kids. I don't want them to see how this has devastated my world.<P>Nellie...I completely agree. WS's get to go off scot-free while we stick around to clean up the mess. And continue to do so with their antics with OP. It is completely amazing to me how they can rationalize what they do. I agree about my needs not being met. I was the maid, the wh0re, the Dr., the cook, you name it. But I was never appreciated or helped. He ran around and did what he wanted and I made sure everything ran smoothly. Then he just up and leaves for someone else. I would never have done that. I think these betrayers are narcissistic to the core and that's the only way they can do this. Those of us with a conscience don't do these sorts of things. But we are the ones left to make everything OK for our kids while it seems the WS does everything to screw them up. I am sick to death of it all. I just want to throw in the towel. I don't want to be the grownup anymore. I'm tired of being the one crapped on all the time. It just isn't right. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

K,<P>My heart goes out to you. My h (now ex) introduced my kids to the ow months before I even knew they were having an affair. Stupid me, I acutally encouraged him to go out with her. She worked at his restaurant and had a niece and nephew the same ages as my kids. Foolishly, I thought my h had found a fun friend to do "kid things" with. <P>During our separation (about 7 months) he lived with her in a 1 bedroom apartment and had visitation rights for the kids. I found out from my oldest that they often all slept in the same room. My attorney said I could get a court order prohibiting my h from visitation if the OW was sleeping over, but it would be near to impossible to enforce AND the divorce hearing was only a few months away. <P>I, too, don't want my kids to like her. In fact there are days when I want them to hate her and him, but I know that wouldn't be best for the kids. I have bit the bullet and dropped the kids off/picked them up at their house when my ex isn't home and have been more than cordial, and often quite pleasant. She really doesn't say much. She's much more vocal/rude via email. <P>I know this isn't the best advice, but I've found that a good old fashioned rant can do wonders. I have a few wonderful friends that I know I can unload on. Sometimes we end up laughing our heads off at the stuff our ex's do. Other times we cry. In the end, I know I'm doing the best I can with the kids. We may not go to Disneyworld, but we do have fun. We call our little family a team and whether we are grocery shopping, driving around town running a zillion errands or reading bed time stories, I know they will remember the times we spent together and know who was always there for them. <P>So, K, rant all you want. You know you're doing a great job with your kids and they know it too. <BR>

I don't get it - in a couple of posts here it was mentioned that the kids were visiting the OW when the H wasn't there. Why would anyone, including the H, want to do that? If he is working, then it is not visitation. I can maybe understand him wanting to run an errand during his scheduled visitation, but if he were going to be gone for an extended period, why wouldn't he want to reschedule or cancel visitation? <BR>

Keri,<BR>I've already been thru this, and it is getting slightly better. I finally decided/learned that me getting upset was not going to change anything, that my x, then w was going to have the kids around the om and there was nothing I could do about it.<P>It was pointed out to me to that once we got divorced there was really nothing we could do, like there is anything I could do before, so I was really driving myslef crazy and allowing the kids to see my reactions qwhich is not good. So I decided to put up with om being around my kids, and as long as there was no physical harm, I could work to prevent the emotional harm. <P>The real scary point is that statistics show that most child murders are by the mothers boyfriend. Mother leaves their kids with boyfriend and he ends up beating or abusing them. Thats a scary thought.<P>As for reasons they are doing that is that so they look like a real family. I think my x is simply trying to slip om into my place and thinks everything will be alright.<P>I too am confused why our x's take the kids when they are working. My x did that and had om's mother watch the kids and she was just visiting from FL ! Sometimes I think my x thinks she is doing me a favor by taking the kids. She doesn't take them to be with them, its to maybe makeup to me by doing a favor. I don't know, it just seems that way sometimes.<P>SO hang then their, do the best you can and vent here. Just keep checking the kids for damage and keep their best interest in mind.<P>Bob