aaa<p>[This message has been edited by Hurting Badly (edited December 12, 2000).]

Leon,<P><B>DON'T MOVE OUT!</B> I don't have a lot of time right now, but I wanted to respond. If it were me, I'd continue to do everything the same (meals & activities), even though you now have separate bedrooms. <P>My advice is not based on the legal issues that could arise if you move out (divorce & custody stuff), but on the fact that it is harder to work on your marriage if you move out. <P>I'm not familiar with your situation, but I'm sure almost everyone, if not everyone here will tell you the same thing. Have you read the Harley material? (His Needs/Her Needs, etc...) Have you tried Plan A and to avoid Love Busters? Use the POJA (policy of joint agreement) on the issues.... even though it's painful, you must talk to your W about this, and about everything.<P>Thoughts & Prayers,<BR>B<P>------------------<BR>There are deep sorrows and killing cares in life, but the encouragement and love of friends were given us to make all difficulties bearable. <BR>-- John Oliver Holmes<P>The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.<BR>-- Elie Wiesel<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Butterfly (edited July 07, 2000).]

I'm sorry to learn of your pain. In short, DO NOT MOVE OUT. Legally, you could be guilty of abandonment even though you and your wife may agree to it. Second, your kids need you, their father, with them 24/7 dispite the dysfunction in your marriage. The kids need their Dad as well as their Mom and the mother does not always get the kids by default. <P>The onus is upon you right now to work the hardest to save the marriage. While this may appear totally unfair, and it is, you are the one with the greatest desire and love to devote the time and energy. <P>Their is a strange fact about the spiritual method of recovery; emotions almost always follow action. If you (or W) do not "feel" loving toward the other, do a loving act first. Chances are the emotion will follow.<P>While you can't force your W to do what she may refuse to do, you can control your part of the marriage and its recovery process. <P>You have a monumental task ahead of you but I'm sure you already know that. My suggestion is to read, research, study and read more. Of course, if you believe, pray like crazy and enlist the prayers of everyone you know and even those you don't know. <P>Good luck and God Bless - John

aaa<p>[This message has been edited by Hurting Badly (edited December 12, 2000).]

Good luck to you. I will say a prayer for you and hope it works out. DONT GO!<P>My wife moved decided last week she wanted to move out with OM. She was wishy washy at first, but I couldn't take the rollercoaster so I said go ahead and go then, go now.<P>Now she says she is in love with the OM and wants a divorce ASAP. She has known him 2 WEEKS!<P>Hang in there!

Hi!<BR>You and I are sharing a bit the same unfortunate situation. My wife of 10yrs moved out almost 2 mos ago with our 2 children (5 and 3). She says she is done but cannot serve me with divorce papers. In the last year she has filed 5 times and not served a one! I consider it to be a good thing - I think she perceives it as a failure. Neither of us has cheated and we both are real strong parents. There hasnt been physical abuse but I feel we both have served more than our fair share of emotional abuse. I still see the "light through the trees" and I continue to try to do the work now. It is getting real hard to keep the energy amidst all the terrible hurt and frustration. I really feel I'm heading for a nervous breakdown. <BR>You are very lucky to still be in the same house. As the others have said, it's easier to work on a marriage while living in the same house. They say by continuing to show love and acts of kindness, love will return. I truly pray your world gets better. Please do the same for me. <BR>I truly hope love prevails.

bailey'sdaddy:<P>yes, how painfully similar our circumstances are! Are you seeing any positive changes at all during your separation? How are your kids (same ages as mine!) reacting? What do you tell them about all this stuff?<P>I'd really like to hear from you!<P>Thanks,<P>Leon

HB - if at all possible, absolutely do not leave!<P>You CAN turn this thing around, even when it seems she doesn't WANT you to. You've gotten good advice here.<P>Four weeks is not a very long time. In just that time, she can SEE the changes, but she can't FEEL them yet, nor can she trust them.<P>Give yourself as much time as you can to show her these changes are real. Give her as much time as possible to be affected by those changes, whether she thinks she wants to or not.<P>Most of us have found that we didn't see "results" from a solid Plan A for MONTHS, but......<P>A lot of us have gotten good results!<P>Hang in there.<P>Lori

Leon,<BR>The kids certainly have been negatively affected. My oldest (my princess) is having the hardest time. She says, "when I'm with you daddy, I miss mommy and when I'm with mommy I miss you". The poor little girl is quite confused. My son is at the stage where he just wants to be with mommy. Unfortunately, I have them only one night(overnight) per week. At my wife's place (i dont think i'll ever get used to saying that), the kids have to sleep in the same room. For awhile there, they both were sleeping in the same bed. At our family home, they both have they're own rooms so when it comes time for my son to go to bed, he has developed a dependence on having his sister in the same room. This makes for a tough bedtime.<BR>They say kids are quite resilient. Based on what I've seen so far, it's true. Albeit, they have and continue to pay a tremendous emotional price. These are mental exercises a 5 and 3 yr old shouldnt have to work through.<BR>My wife has been "mostly" truthful with the kids. My wife has painted a far more altruistic picture of the situation to the kids and everyone in her world. She says we have some problems and we need to live apart. I made it quite clear to the kids that this was NOT daddy's idea and that my desire was to keep the family together while we worked on our problems. I believe honesty is always the best policy even if you are dealing with small children. The truth is, I have had NO say in anything that has gone on recently. As to how my wife's contingent is digesting the situation, I figure based on her story they cant help but think she is right (closer to saintly)! Again, I disagree. <BR>Regarding positive changes, this whole event has been a tremendous awakening for me. I have totally revamped my life. I created part of the railway that took us over the edge. In a way, I am tremendously thankful this whole thing has happened. I AM a better man now than I have ever been. Some people are bit more thick-headed than others and I guess I am very thick-headed. My wife has gained some independence too which is real good. I have been the guy who would take care of everything for her. In a way, I feel I have been totally taken for granted. Most women would kill for the life my wife has led. I know there is nothing I can do to change the past and as I say to my wife, all I can do is affect a positive future. With this horrible experience as a reference point, I cant imagine not doing ANYTHING within my power to ensure a success! My wife and family are (without a doubt) the most important thing in my life. <BR>My wife is real down these days but I do think she is starting to see merit in a reconciliation. We actually are a perfect couple. We are not parallel lines but as they say "parallel lines never cross". I keep stressing the concept of "Synergy" - where the results created by two far outweigh that which would be created individually. Together we can accomplish anything.<BR>Financially, this is a living hell. I make a pretty decent living. My wife only works 12 hrs a week. We've got the house, cars and the debt that goes along with life. Attorneys have been involved and we had to hammer out a temporary support and custody agreement. I'm having to pay $1000 a month to my wife. This burden has left me (literally) with nothing. I do not have money to buy food or anything. I know she is living pretty hard too. Obviously this adds to the pain. Logic hasnt been prevailing. I think the world is based on logic one way or another and at some point it must be considered. While I wait, I will try to keep strong although this is killing me!<BR>It is real nice to see comments like Lori made. They are really helpful. Although I can see the sun through the trees in terms of our love. I cant necessarily say I can see the forest for the trees in terms of my efforts at this time. I guess these things do work out provided everyone makes the right moves. I just have some trouble remaining upright!<BR>Again, I echo what everyone else has told you - DO NOT MOVE OUT!! Whether the state you live in would consider that abandonement or not - it's best for everyone that remain there. As to custody, it is highly unlikely you would get primary custody of the kids. In my case, I was (more than the average) in terms of a hands on dad. My wife worked in the evenings, so I took care of the kids everynight of their lives. Still, my best case scenario is joint custody and I have to discredit the wife pretty hard just to get that. <BR>Work with intention of reconciling your relationship now at all costs. If necessary, work to protect yourself and then work to protect your children. Being "only" the father, inherently we get screwed in situations like this. Divorce is a far more horrible prospect than I ever imagined and I am convinced it is not the answer. I have kept my attorney out of this situation (much at the dismay of all my friends). I've seen the damage her attorney caused so far. Should I let my attorney start attacking, there will be no chance for love anymore. Its a tough line to walk.<BR>Brother, stay strong and keep fighting. When my wife first left, I created two letters. One for my son and one for my daughter. I wanted to accurately capture my thoughts at this time. In my son's letter I said "..do not take the path of convenience; take the path your conscience shows you. You heart will already be there.." I know where my heart is and I certainly am not taking the most convenient path. I pray my simple words of wisdom work for me too.<BR>Brother stay strong and keep in touch.<BR>D<BR>

Hi baileysdaddy!<P>Thanks for your comments; hope things are going well for you (as well as can be expected, given the circumstances of us all being here ).<P>I'll try to keep my chin up in these weird days. If I don't post here, I'll be on the EN forum; I spend more time there. Stop by for a visit sometime...<P>Leon