GBM,<p>Does my wife feel overwhelmed? I'm sure she does at times. She is presently at a crossroads on her job. It can be stressful and she wants to move to another position. So I know that has some effect.<p>Steph,<p>I know your advice to be consistent is good advice, and I strive to attain it. But this confusion factor trips me up sometimes.<br>Yesterday we were supposed to go out to dinner. Then my wife says, "Do we have to do it tonight?" She said this because she'd already told her girlfriends she was going with them. This made me angry. I would rather her have told me in the beginnig she didn't want to break the date with them instead of say she'd go with me and then act like it was a burden. But this is what caused the talk we had, which ended up with a lot of understanding.<br>So we took the kids to a babysitter and went. We were only out about 2 and a half hours. When we got back she sked if I minded if she went to see if her girlfriends were still there. On the inside I didn't like it, but I said go ahead.<br>When she came home she got on the computer and stayed on it all night until she went to bed. When I got up she was on it again. We go to church every Sunday. I came into the kitchen to make some breakfast. She never even said "hi" or "good morning" while I was in there.<br>This is what kills me inside. I feel so good being with her, like I did last night. Then I come home to an almost total blackout of interaction. It was churning me up so bad inside that I just put some jeans on and went out to wash my car. I left her to take the boys to church. I shouldn't have but sometimes I just can't take this.<br>They were gone when I got back, and I fell asleep looking at a football game. They came in and she said nothing to me, and then took my oldest out to take pictures for some school project he had.<br>She had to go to work a 4pm, a rare week end appearance for her. She asked me to go out to but a chicken dinner for us to eat. Inwardly I resented the only time I was talked to was to be asked to do something. But I did it.<br>On her way out the door to work she was staring at me. I asked her why she was doing it. She said she was just thinking about a few things. Not recovered I asked why she couldn't put just 3 seconds of that energy into a hug or kiss on the cheek for Quasimodo.<br>She came over and hugged me, saying she could do it because I was acting normal, not evil like this morning. Now I'm confused again. She doesn't hug me when I am acting normal, which is most of the time. But now she hugs me because I am.<br>She gets off at midnight tonight and will not have to work tomorrow. I will wait up for her because I want to make sure she gets in ok. But I will go to bed as soon as she gets in the door. I cannot bear staying up that late out of concern for her (I'm always in bed before that hour) only to watch her go put on her night gown and head for the computer.<br>I'm to the point now where I want to go for my own peace of mind. Though I in no way like the thought of leaving it would be preferable to be alone and know what the problem is than to be with her every day as she takes as much notice of me as she does her shadow.

Bruce, just a quick thought ... you said your wife recognizes that a lot of the people she meets online "don't have a life" but I am concerned that she is online so much. I have discovered (and mentioned it somewhere here) that being on the computer too much makes me one or all of the following: tired, depressed, not quite in touch with reality. Is it possible that her computer time is *causing* her current behavior patterns?<p>Perhaps you could suggest to her that while you are away she could try limiting her time online with a kitchen timer or something and see if by doing so, she feels better - healthier and more alive.<p>I don't know if this is a valid idea for your situation, but it just struck me as if your wife spends too much time online not just for the health of your relationship, but her personal health as well.<p>terri

oh Bruce,<br> You truly do crack me up.......quasimodo,rofl! Do you know my daughter absolutely ADORES him!!!! And me too actually! When we lived in Orlando l had to go to MGM at least once a week to see my beloved Quasi sing and l miss him so much now!(if any of you are going there someday-DONT miss the hunchback show there!) Anyway,you must be a riot to be around! BTW, l am back from my pairs weekend and l can't wait to tell you all about it,but just needed to comment on this thread about the PC. ln a way l agree with Terri. l know this PC has been a real sore spot between my dh and l,and to be honest when he first got orders to korea for that yr,the sick pc loving side of me was actually smiling thinking yehaw,now l can get on the pc whenever l want without* the look! Unfortunately,my parents and siblings were even worse about complaining about it,so l still had to face the issue of my usage there. l would say l used to be on for about 4-6 hrs spread out throughout the day and evening. But the way l justified it was that everyone else spent all that time in front of the TV so what was the big deal with me being on the pc here and there. l felt at least l was sometimes learning something. But anyway, the thing l am getting at is that because l knew how others felt about it,l automatically would go into the defensive mode whenever l was on it. either by snapping answers at whoever asked me any kind of question(assuming l was being attacked- from my own guilt) Or l would withdraw and just not talk even at times l wasn't on it,again from guilt,thinking they were probably analyzing my pc time or figuring l would only talk when l wasn't on the pc so l would have to prove that wasn't the case and l just wasn't a talker. Needless to say it just turns into such an issue that we bury it,yet it festers,even after we fight about it. Later on the other people may say they dont have a problem with your pc time anymore after they explain their reasoning and you explain yours,but deep inside we never really believe them( again from our own guilt) and are still waiting for the attack.<br>

Bruce,<p>I think Terri and Ali are right. The computer time could really be a big factor in this. But just like with any other problem the person in it doesn't see it for what it is. My H would spend six hours a night online before he got help for his depression. My only option was to show him how it felt to have someone go online all the time. If he got off I got on. I would stay on until he would ask to go back on. After awhile it started to bother him because I was not available when he was off. He started to complain so to really take it to the extreme I made up a log for us to fill out. Whenever you sat down at the computer you had to log in and out. After one month we looked at it and found that he was on more than I was. It really opened his eyes to what he was doing. We set some rules up that we both follow. 1) We only go on for 30 min a night if the other person is home. 2)If the other person asks a question they are not to be ignored. We have to take time to respond to each other. 3) If the other person asks for our attention then the computer is turned off no questions asked. The amazing thing is that we never fight about the computer anymore but arriving to the agreement was not easy. I know you do not feel like you can do this at this time but at some point she needs to realize what her time at the computer is doing. Good Luck.<p>Steph

The other thing about the computer with me, is that I was on it until very late at night or the wee hours of the morning. This caused severe sleep disruptions which I feel contributed to my depression also.<p>About a year ago my H indicated that my time online bothered him. I cut back when he was home. But not when he wasn't - the computer always came first over housework or other "domestic support" issues. And when I was done, I was too tired to do anything else. So I didn't do anything. No wonder he didn't want to live with me anymore, huh?<p>terri

All,<p>Ok, everyone, this will be my final post for a while. The venting for me and the input from all of you has been useful. But I think I'm at that point where I'm clutching for straws and putting myself in a non-productive frame of mind. This is how things stand...<p>Last night I came home to the usual. My wife spoke to me but I want some personal contact so bad that I didn't care much. I went ans lay down for a while. When I came out I decided to go somewhere. As I prepared to leave I watched my wife on the computer and the whole thing just overwhelmed me. <br>By now she knows my reactions so she was looking at me. I told her I just could not continue this way, that I am so lonely it is driving me nuts. Yes, I know the books say don't be needy. But I didn't care. So this precipitated another talk.<br>I won't go into details, but one thing my wife said was that she sees the sincerity of the things I'm doing. But, she said, when you are in the frame of mind she is in then even the hand she knows is offered in love is seen in a different light. SHe said that right now she is up against a wall emotionally and she simply has to be able to back away from it in order to even appreciate what she can see I am doing.<p>After that I went out to the store and stayed out a while. I do not drink but I stopped and bought a beer at a conveinience store and sat in the car and drank it. Obviously I wasn't trying to get drunk (I never have been one for that) but I felt I need something to relax me a little from the inward churning. It did help.<br>I finally went home, took the groceries and and put them up, folded a bunch of clothes and then lay down on the couch. My wife walked by and asked me why I was laying there looking like a sick man. She said why am I torturing myself. <br>I said I am a sick man, and don't ask me about self-torture. "You just told me a while ago that you could not simply switch out of your emotional problem, that it would take time. Well, I can't simply act normal when the woman I love more than anything withholds herself from me."<br>I asked her if she could remember when she was a kid and got a splinter in her hand or foot. You kneit had to come out yet you didn't call your parents because you knew they would dig it out, so you tried to continue with the splinter still in there. I said I felt like I had one that I couldn't get out.<br>She actually said she understood this. A few minutes later I went into the kitchen and she came in, rubbed my shoulders and told me to quit worrying. She told me I needed to learn how to deal with a crisis. Then she put her arms around me and told me she knew how I felt about her. I said, "You mean that I'm mad at you?" She said no. I said, "You mean that you know I love you." She said yes.<br>That made me feel good. The woman was showing me compassion, letting me know that even though she couldn't respond right now the way I would like she did know that I was sincere and really did love her.<br>I felt like I could settle for that. That caged animal feeling left and, for at least one more night, I felt hopeful. <br>My wife really is a great woman. Despite my anger at her during this situation she manages to show me parts of herself that make me feel like things have a chance. We have agreed that next month I'll go somewhere and stay a while. Strangely, I'm not bothered by it that much. I really believe that once I'm gone it won't take a long time for her to come to a decision. Maybe I'm being too optimistic, I don't know. <br>But I know that my boys love me and will miss me. I also know that things I do will be missed. Perhaps these are just a couple of things she needs to feel the pressure of to help her get her mind on track. Here's hoping.<br>I continue to mention the names on this forum in my prayers.

All,<p>Ok, everyone, this will be my final post for a while. The venting for me and the input from all of you has been useful. But I think I'm at that point where I'm clutching for straws and putting myself in a non-productive frame of mind. This is how things stand...<p>Last night I came home to the usual. My wife spoke to me but I want some personal contact so bad that I didn't care much. I went ans lay down for a while. When I came out I decided to go somewhere. As I prepared to leave I watched my wife on the computer and the whole thing just overwhelmed me. <br>By now she knows my reactions so she was looking at me. I told her I just could not continue this way, that I am so lonely it is driving me nuts. Yes, I know the books say don't be needy. But I didn't care. So this precipitated another talk.<br>I won't go into details, but one thing my wife said was that she sees the sincerity of the things I'm doing. But, she said, when you are in the frame of mind she is in then even the hand she knows is offered in love is seen in a different light. SHe said that right now she is up against a wall emotionally and she simply has to be able to back away from it in order to even appreciate what she can see I am doing.<p>After that I went out to the store and stayed out a while. I do not drink but I stopped and bought a beer at a conveinience store and sat in the car and drank it. Obviously I wasn't trying to get drunk (I never have been one for that) but I felt I need something to relax me a little from the inward churning. It did help.<br>I finally went home, took the groceries and and put them up, folded a bunch of clothes and then lay down on the couch. My wife walked by and asked me why I was laying there looking like a sick man. She said why am I torturing myself. <br>I said I am a sick man, and don't ask me about self-torture. "You just told me a while ago that you could not simply switch out of your emotional problem, that it would take time. Well, I can't simply act normal when the woman I love more than anything withholds herself from me."<br>I asked her if she could remember when she was a kid and got a splinter in her hand or foot. You kneit had to come out yet you didn't call your parents because you knew they would dig it out, so you tried to continue with the splinter still in there. I said I felt like I had one that I couldn't get out.<br>She actually said she understood this. A few minutes later I went into the kitchen and she came in, rubbed my shoulders and told me to quit worrying. She told me I needed to learn how to deal with a crisis. Then she put her arms around me and told me she knew how I felt about her. I said, "You mean that I'm mad at you?" She said no. I said, "You mean that you know I love you." She said yes.<br>That made me feel good. The woman was showing me compassion, letting me know that even though she couldn't respond right now the way I would like she did know that I was sincere and really did love her.<br>I felt like I could settle for that. That caged animal feeling left and, for at least one more night, I felt hopeful. <br>My wife really is a great woman. Despite my anger at her during this situation she manages to show me parts of herself that make me feel like things have a chance. We have agreed that next month I'll go somewhere and stay a while. Strangely, I'm not bothered by it that much. I really believe that once I'm gone it won't take a long time for her to come to a decision. Maybe I'm being too optimistic, I don't know. <br>But I know that my boys love me and will miss me. I also know that things I do will be missed. Perhaps these are just a couple of things she needs to feel the pressure of to help her get her mind on track. Here's hoping.<br>I continue to mention the names on this forum in my prayers.

bruce,<br> l wish you wouldn't go now.......l didnt get a chance yet to post about my pairs seminar or my hot/cold question. l actually do know how you feel though. Sometimes,l feel so emotionally drained after reading this forum,although l do think it is a wonderful place. l guess it is because in a way,it does make us dwell on things,instead of moving past it. l surely wish you well. l see such hope in your situation,l just think you both need some outrside help. l think a weekend thing would be wonderful for you both. Maybe someday you can get her to do it. l know they have pairs in cary,nc so maybe you can check them out on the web. Even my husband really enjoyed it and l think learned alot and if you remember he wanted out of the marriage. Take care,bud!<br>Ali

ali,<p>Go ahead and post about the pairs seminar. I'll continue to look for it and respond. I won't put a total stop to coming to the forum. I'm just not going to do it as much as before.<br>

Bruce--<br>I hope this separation is what your relationship needs. I have also felt like thinking about the relationship so much has mentally drained me. best wishes and please stay in contact.

Bruce,<p>My prayers are with you. Be patient for with you I believe time will bring great things. Thank you for your advice and support. <p>Steph

I kinda know how you feel, Bruce. My H finally left last night. He would never tell me if he had second thoughts or not, and that's probably for the best, since it would really get my hopes up...<p>But you have a lot going for you. I can see how difficult it must be when she acknowledges that she believes everything will be ok, yet they can't be okay right away. But she does believe it will be okay and that's what you have to hang onto.<p>I hope to hear from you by the New Year that you and your wife are back together and working hard on your relationship... <p>terri

Bruce,<br>My wishes are with you. It will be a difficult thing, to leave your wife and kids. But, perhaps it will turn out for the best. Keep in touch with the board.

All,<p>Well, I said I wasn't going to post for a while. But I saw several posts today that I just had to respond to. What can I say?

Bruce,<p>You mentioned a while back about hugging a tree.<p>Every day, hug that tree!<p>Good luck,<p>Mike